The more desperate the conservative propaganda machine gets, the more they lash out.

[Vic]

We can get to unity after we hang the fascist traitors. As long as these folks wield power, there can be no compromise.

I think we should all unite behind prosecuting as traitors the "strict Constitutionalist patriots" who tried to overthrow the Constitution and install King Donald I.
Those fuckers are as patriotic as Benedict Arnold and the redcoats.

 

[Vic]

There's nothing stopping the outrageously angry from following through on their agenda.

By all means, grab the torches and pitchforks.

And not everybody is executed for taking part in a failed coup. Hitler and his minions weren't.

I wish Trump was in jail, too. But I'll have to wait until this judicial process is completed. I'm surprised it's taking so long. Still, I'm not in a hurry to foment violence.

So Hitler wasn't executed because he commited suicide first (IMO one of the greatest travesties of justice in history was that Goehring was able to commit suicide the night before he was to be hung for his heinous crimes).
While the only reason justice has taken long here is because complicit Republicans have been forestalling it. And would prevent justice completely if they were to retake control of Congress this fall.
People need to know that Republicans under Trump tried to overthrow the Constitution. That they made (and continue to make) absurd and preposterous claims about being "strict Constitutionalist patriots" while at the same time trying to overturn the entirely legal Constitutional election process in order to make Trump king. Literally the exact opposite of what any true patriot would do.
Now, I don't necessarily blame the brainwashed masses who were tricked into their anti-constitutional acts. But I absolutely blame the leaders (political, media, and so forth) who tricked them, and I demand that they be prosecuted in order to prevent a recurrence of this heinous act.

 

[IronWing]

There's nothing stopping the outrageously angry from following through on their agenda.

By all means, grab the torches and pitchforks.

And not everybody is executed for taking part in a failed coup. Hitler and his minions weren't.

I wish Trump was in jail, too. But I'll have to wait until this judicial process is completed. I'm surprised it's taking so long. Still, I'm not in a hurry to foment violence.

Hitler and his fascists were treated leniently because the judges of the Weimar Republic were holdovers from the Kaiser’s regime and were themselves monarchists and radically right wing. Keeping the Kaiser’s judges on the bench was a critical failure of the Republic that allowed the fascists to take power.

 

[Lezunto]

IronWing,

I disproved your point. Not everyone is executed for failed coups.

 

[Lezunto]

Vic,

Hitler faced his own brand of Justice many years later. He was not executed for his failed Putsch.

I abhor political violence.

 

[IronWing]

IronWing,

I disproved your point. Not everyone is executed for failed coups.

The failure of the Weimar Republic to punish the fascists involved in the coup attempt led to the destruction of that republic. IMHO, it’s not a model the U.S. should continue to follow.

 

[Lezunto]

No need for all of that. The Left simply lacks the viciousness, the personnel and the weaponry to carry out a complete takeover of the country.

Most espousing violence are expressing a variety of personal frustrations and anger.

Now, there are bunch of looney tunes with warped thinking who may want to go the rebellion route. But I don't see ya'll getting anywhere.

Especially with a phony leader such as AOC pretending to be handcuffed at a pro-Abortion rally in D.C. But she swears she's House Speaker material.

 

[IronWing]

Vic,

Hitler faced his own brand of Justice many years later. He was not executed for his failed Putsch.

I abhor political violence.

Hitler never faced justice. He went to the grave on his own terms after murdering millions. Again, not a good model to follow.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No need for all of that. The Left simply lacks the viciousness, the personnel and the weaponry to carry out a complete takeover of the country.

Most espousing violence are expressing a variety of personal frustrations and anger.

Now, there are bunch of looney tunes with warped thinking who may want to go the rebellion route. But I don't see ya'll getting anywhere.

Especially with a phony leader such as AOC pretending to be handcuffed at a pro-Abortion rally in D.C. But she swears she's House Speaker material.

in one breath you say that Dems don’t have what it takes, but in the next you describe AOC having what it takes.

 

[IronWing]

No need for all of that. The Left simply lacks the viciousness, the personnel and the weaponry to carry out a complete takeover of the country.

Most espousing violence are expressing a variety of personal frustrations and anger.

Now, there are bunch of looney tunes with warped thinking who may want to go the rebellion route. But I don't see ya'll getting anywhere.

Especially with a phony leader such as AOC pretending to be handcuffed at a pro-Abortion rally in D.C. But she swears she's House Speaker material.

I get that you fancy yourself a silver tongued Grima but your attempts to create a leftist specter are lame.

 

[dank69]

IronWing,

I disproved your point. Not everyone is executed for failed coups.

His point wasn't that everyone is executed for failed coups, it was that everyone SHOULD be executed/jailed for failed coups. Hitler wasn't and it led directly to WWII and millions of deaths. You didn't disprove his point, you made it for him.

 

[pmv]

Vic,

Hitler faced his own brand of Justice many years later. He was not executed for his failed Putsch.

I abhor political violence.

That makes no sense at all. Are you suggesting that Hitler spontaneously decided to kill himself, and no 'political violence' was involved in bringing him to that point? WW2 was an entirely peaceful process?

 

[Bitek]

What would you have him do differently? Be specific, nothing like 'just do it better'.

I have my list, but does it really matter? Want a list to debate and argue but actually... for multiple pages? Why?

Yes, being more effective, doing better, actually being perceived as in control is what upcoming elections will hinge on.

He does not look in control of much of anything right now, fair or unfair. Poll numbers reflect that. Worse, a perception of him as a dotard is settling in, and it will be tremendously difficult to overcome.

Lose a chamber this midterm, and his ability to accomplish legislative change is effectively over. Your satisfaction with the legacy is your opinion to decide.

 

[fskimospy]

I have my list, but does it really matter? Want a list to debate and argue but actually... for multiple pages? Why?

Yes, being more effective, doing better, actually being perceived as in control is what upcoming elections will hinge on.

He does not look in control of much of anything right now, fair or unfair. Poll numbers reflect that. Worse, a perception of him as a dotard is settling in, and it will be tremendously difficult to overcome.

Lose a chamber this midterm, and his ability to accomplish legislative change is effectively over. Your satisfaction with the legacy is your opinion to decide.

Okay so if you have specifics what are some of them? My bet is once you lay them out they will be things he’s already doing/done or are infeasible.

 

[Amused]

I have my list, but does it really matter? Want a list to debate and argue but actually... for multiple pages? Why?

Yes, being more effective, doing better, actually being perceived as in control is what upcoming elections will hinge on.

He does not look in control of much of anything right now, fair or unfair. Poll numbers reflect that. Worse, a perception of him as a dotard is settling in, and it will be tremendously difficult to overcome.

Lose a chamber this midterm, and his ability to accomplish legislative change is effectively over. Your satisfaction with the legacy is your opinion to decide.

Yep, the opposition propaganda war is absolutely winning. Lying is very effective.

The big issue is no one is able to easily condense and meme the facts about the US weathering the world economic crisis better than virtually every other country.

Our inflation is lowest, our GDP growth highest, our energy prices lowest of most other countries which is why the US dollar is at 20 year high and rocketing higher.

That is the info that matters and shows US policy has been wildly effective. It's easy to criticize. But why not figure out how to out propagandize the right-wing and their useful idiots the Bernie Bros many of whom fell down the right-wing rabbit hole after 2016/2020.

One thing the left is going to have to accept is the new right-wing HAS became the new anti-establishment movement. Yes, ironic that it is fascist, but many anti-establishment "burn it down" types have been sucked in now.

Crystal huggers
Bernie Bros
Crunchy moms
Anti-vaxxers
Alt Med believers
Previous left wing conspiracy types

The fringe left wing now sees the new right as the anti-establishment party.

The left lost it's fringe to the right as the right became the big tent party for batshit.

 

[Bitek]

We (almost) all agree that these things are out of the President's hands.
It's rather beside the point as to whether he should be the nominee in 2024.
Even if it is not fair, the job is to be the one holding the ball. Even if the ball stinks and takes you down with it.

Yup.

For an analogy, NFL teams dump accomplished QBs regularly when they no longer feel he's "the guy" going forward, despite. Eg Manning, Brady, Russ, and many other non HOFers

Now, is Biden even in Manning territory? Lol no.

He's more in Drew Lock territory.

Has a pedigree, a lot invested in selecting him, a few flashes of brilliance to justify why you selected him... But oh so many fumbles and dumb plays that he just can't seem to stop.

Time is running out on Joe to make the case he and the party should be trusted despite the results, rather than move on to someone else.

 

[Bitek]

Okay so if you have specifics what are some of them? My bet is once you lay them out they will be things he’s already doing/done or are infeasible.

Yes, thats the obvious track you want to get into, but if you want to extol Bidens virtues, you don't need me.

Feel free to explain all the reasons he's doing great and he deserves to keep the job based on merit.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, thats the obvious track you want to get into, but if you want to extol Bidens virtues, you don't need me.

Feel free to explain all the reasons he's doing great and he deserves to keep the job based on merit.

I didn’t say he was doing great. You made a specific complain and I’ve asked you to back it up. This is a reasonable request as I’m sure you agree so if you want to just say you refuse to back up your claim you can do that now and save everyone some time.

Specific claims are useful because we can actually have a topic to discuss instead of vague complaints that don’t mean anything.

 

[woolfe9998]

So Hitler wasn't executed because he commited suicide first (IMO one of the greatest travesties of justice in history was that Goehring was able to commit suicide the night before he was to be hung for his heinous crimes).
While the only reason justice has taken long here is because complicit Republicans have been forestalling it. And would prevent justice completely if they were to retake control of Congress this fall.
People need to know that Republicans under Trump tried to overthrow the Constitution. That they made (and continue to make) absurd and preposterous claims about being "strict Constitutionalist patriots" while at the same time trying to overturn the entirely legal Constitutional election process in order to make Trump king. Literally the exact opposite of what any true patriot would do.
Now, I don't necessarily blame the brainwashed masses who were tricked into their anti-constitutional acts. But I absolutely blame the leaders (political, media, and so forth) who tricked them, and I demand that they be prosecuted in order to prevent a recurrence of this heinous act.

I agree with everything here except for the part about not blaming the masses. These are adults, not children. Children can be excused for being too weak and emotional to think for themselves. Not so much adults.

Con artists, charlatans, narcissists and demagogues exist all throughout human history, in every time and in every place. So do honest and decent people. It's on ordinary people to know the difference.

 

[hal2kilo]

Boomers who vote at much higher rates than younger people.

As a 68 year old boomer, I'm sick of geriatrics running this place.

 

[Moonbeam]

I agree with everything here except for the part about not blaming the masses. These are adults, not children. Children can be excused for being too weak and emotional to think for themselves. Not so much adults.

Con artists, charlatans, narcissists and demagogues exist all throughout human history, in every time and in every place. So do honest and decent people. It's on ordinary people to know the difference.

As far as I am concerned the urge to blame, the need to blame, the belief in blame, the idea that people are to blame is itself an almost universal state of mind for which nobody can be blamed despite the fact that it is utterly absurd that anybody is to blame for anything who has not broken his or her own conditioning. Humanity is asleep and those who are awake are precious few.

The whole unconscious nature of awareness-unawareness has been created, our psyches' split, by being put down and blamed as children. The whole moral structure of good and evil, right and wrong, are dependent on the abstraction of language and the facility with which emotional content and negative experience can be inculcated with words. It is the belief that people should and ought to be blamed that creates evil and thus the thinking that evil exists. But in reality there is only the the joyful monkey nature of the human ape we were born with as potential and now overwritten by all of this bull shit, the Buddha sitting under the Bo tree, a conscious state in which the observer and the observed are one and the same thing, an ending to dualistic thinking. There is no way back to the Garden because we never actually left. It is all around you. The feeling it is gone is why we are pissed and why we seek to blame.

We have our con artists, yes, but we have all been coned. We all believe that what we call ego is us. The ego is the construct we took on as the only way not to die from endless torture and pain, something we are terrified to let go of, but which we no longer actually need. To blame is to project. You not me are responsible for this. It is always the mote and never the beam.

 

[pmv]

I think we should all unite behind prosecuting as traitors the "strict Constitutionalist patriots" who tried to overthrow the Constitution and install King Donald I.
Those fuckers are as patriotic as Benedict Arnold and the redcoats.

Surely the redcoats _were_ patriotic? For Benedict Arnold it's debatable, given that he changed sides twice.

 

[sportage]

Well, I spent some time with my Q niece yesterday (she's 38 years old) and she was very frustrated about all the Q's predictions not coming true. I.e. Trump returning to the Whitehouse, Biden put in jail, Pelosi sent to her execution, all the Q predictions that did not come true. And amazingly, my Q niece was upset with Donald Trump for telling people way back when to get THE SHOT. THE SHOT the Q's claim is full of Bill Gates micro cyber chips and micro cyber worms (whatever a cyber worm is?), but for Trump to have ever said that still pisses her off and she demands DEMANDS answers.

But again, those Q's never give up the ghost, and she says JUST WAIT, JUST WAIT. NEXT YEAR, NEXT YEAR. Next year it will all happen i.e. Trump's return, Biden's demise, Pelosi's execution, Hollywood elite pedophiles like Tom Hanks brought to justice, she goes on and on. JUST WAIT, JUST WAIT. NEXT YEAR, NEXT YEAR!!!!
But the fact that she now DEMANDS ANSWERS from Donald Trump is something totally new. I have never heard her talk like that before.

So lets hope that this is the crack in the Trump cult. The beginning of where the cult members begin to question, and express doubts about their leader.
But I would like to know who the Q's would switch their loyalties to if they felt Donald Trump let them down? I wonder who is #2 on their Q list?

 

[eelw]

So lets hope that this is the crack in the Trump cult. The beginning of where the cult members begin to question, and express doubts about their leader.
But I would like to know who the Q's would switch their loyalties to if they felt Donald Trump let them down? I wonder who is #2 on their Q list?

Hmm never thought about that, who will the worship after?

 

[Jaskalas]

Well, I spent some time with my Q niece yesterday (she's 38 years old) and she was very frustrated about all the Q's predictions not coming true.
...
But again, those Q's never give up the ghost, and she says JUST WAIT, JUST WAIT. NEXT YEAR, NEXT YEAR. Next year it will all happen
...
But the fact that she now DEMANDS ANSWERS from Donald Trump is something totally new. I have never heard her talk like that before.

First, it's a religion. That's how the human mind works. Tribal, zealous, fantasy. Q is perhaps the best modern example of it in a raw form. It's pure bat!@#$ and yet people cling to it.

The part about Trump is, he was never one of them. He simply made use of the bat!@#$ to help him get elected. They were given some lip service and in return they voted for their new messiah. Now, just as Trump back stabs each and every cabinet member he chose for his own administration, Q too will back stab Trump. They're looking for saviors, looking for messiahs to "spread the good word".

Who will it be? Anyone really. Any Republican candidate / nominee for President who pays them even a little lip service. Desantis is probably "smart" enough to play them like that. Hell, he may even be willing to join the cult. Maybe he isn't too proud of himself the way Trump was.