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The line between men and women has become blurred

Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
Article from ABC news that talks about a transgender woman that became a man, then later in life had 3 children.

Person was born a woman
Changed gender to male
Never had female parts removed
Gave birth to 3 children

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011/10/31/pregnant-man-thomas-beatie-may-stop-at-3-kids/

If someone can give birth, how can that person be defined as a male?

Isn't one of the dividing lines between male and female, is if they can bear children? If someone has ovaries and a uterus, how can that person be called a male?
 
Texashiker said:
If someone has ovaries and a uterus, how can that person be called a male?
Click to expand...

Obviously you've never been to a lesbian bar before. Plenty of people there with women parts but all-male personalities.

Seriously, though, this isn't really shocking to me.

Our naive belief that life-death, male-female, and heterosexual/homosexual concepts are static and rigid will one day come crashing down around us... forcing the ignorance of the past into a smaller and smaller corner of society.
 
zsdersw said:
Our naive belief that life-death, male-female, and heterosexual/homosexual concepts are static and rigid will one day come crashing down around us... forcing the ignorance of the past into a smaller and smaller corner of society.
Click to expand...

The Romans did not have gay or straight categories. Instead, they divided people into 2 groups:

People that like to be penetrated

People that liked to do the penetrating

As for our rigid concepts collapsing, I think the mindset of society will change over time. Its going to be a gradual change, instead of a collapse and instant change.
 
Texashiker said:
The Romans did not have gay or straight categories. Instead, they divided people into 2 groups:

People that like to be penetrated

People that liked to do the penetrating

As for our rigid concepts collapsing, I think the mindset of society will change over time. Its going to be a gradual change, instead of a collapse and instant change.
Click to expand...
What about people that liked both?
 
Texashiker said:
The Romans did not have gay or straight categories. Instead, they divided people into 2 groups:

People that like to be penetrated

People that liked to do the penetrating

As for our rigid concepts collapsing, I think the mindset of society will change over time. Its going to be a gradual change, instead of a collapse and instant change.
Click to expand...

There are guys that like to be penetrated....
 
No, it has to do with gender identity. The term for this difference between anatomical sex and the gender they identify with is gender dysphoria. It's also not something you can 'treat'. Nor can you just walk into a doctors office one day and ask them to remove all your male/female parts. One has to go through transitioning, which can take a couple of years to achieve (might be quicker for some, I don't know). 1st stage, psychological/physical examination. 2nd stage, live as the sex they identify with for usually 1-2 years. 3rd is where hormonal treatment begins. 4th, is sex reassignment surgery. However, not all transsexuals undergo this for a variety of reasons.

You can define it however you want, but if someone is physically female but identifies as male they are considered male (transmen).
 
Texashiker said:
As for our rigid concepts collapsing, I think the mindset of society will change over time. Its going to be a gradual change, instead of a collapse and instant change.
Click to expand...

Semantics. Yes, it will be a gradual change.. but one day that change will be completed, which is what I was referring to.
 
Ask liberals, but I figure they'll tell you that gender is a psychological thing that should be freely defined in a person's head and their body altered to accommodate that. Obviously in this case the woman's body wasn't so mutilated as to prevent pregnancy.

There is no line being blurred, it's just liberals empowering some fringe psychological profile. Taking them in as yet another victim group to be a voting block. It's the basis of how they win elections, bringing together these 'diverse' groups to oppose a common enemy, the conservative man who looks down on them.

You could say liberals empathize with those confused about their gender, and we don't.
 
Jaskalas said:
Ask liberals, but I figure they'll tell you that gender is a psychological thing that should be freely defined in a person's head and their body altered to accommodate that. Obviously in this case the woman's body wasn't so mutilated as to prevent pregnancy.

There is no line being blurred, it's just liberals empowering some fringe psychological profile. Taking them in as yet another victim group to be a voting block. It's the basis of how they win elections, bringing together these 'diverse' groups to oppose a common enemy, the conservative man who looks down on them.

You could say liberals empathize with those confused about their gender, and we don't.
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Nice field of strawmen.
 
Jaskalas said:
Ask liberals, but I figure they'll tell you that gender is a psychological thing that should be freely defined in a person's head and their body altered to accommodate that. Obviously in this case the woman's body wasn't so mutilated as to prevent pregnancy.

There is no line being blurred, it's just liberals empowering some fringe psychological profile. Taking them in as yet another victim group to be a voting block. It's the basis of how they win elections, bringing together these 'diverse' groups to oppose a common enemy, the conservative man who looks down on them.

You could say liberals empathize with those confused about their gender, and we don't.
Click to expand...

Aren't you supposed to be a libertarian? You know, live-and-let-live and all that jazz?
 
There's really nothing confusing about it. You are biologically either male or female. What you choose to do with those parts is up to you. This person was born a woman. Taking pills and "changing" didn't change that simple fact. Later she had kids, which is unsurprising considering she was born <gasp> a woman.

All the other stuff is just politically correct nonsense.
 
Jaskalas said:
Ask liberals, but I figure they'll tell you that gender is a psychological thing that should be freely defined in a person's head and their body altered to accommodate that. Obviously in this case the woman's body wasn't so mutilated as to prevent pregnancy.

There is no line being blurred, it's just liberals empowering some fringe psychological profile. Taking them in as yet another victim group to be a voting block. It's the basis of how they win elections, bringing together these 'diverse' groups to oppose a common enemy, the conservative man who looks down on them.

You could say liberals empathize with those confused about their gender, and we don't.
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Post of a superstitious ignorant idiot with a ton of opinion and no information or clue.

Would fit in well in any society based on those things, sacrifice children who are different as 'devil spawn'.

Who cares what science has to say about the nature of sexual identity.

That's what divides people like him from moral, civilized people.
 
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PokerGuy said:
You are biologically either male or female.
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Obviously you've never heard of true hermaphrodites, androgyny, and other intersex conditions before.

It's exceedingly rare, obviously, but it does occur... often enough to say that, biologically, being either male or female is by no means guaranteed.
 
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Its funny that the left shows so much tolerance for everyone and their choices.. unless that choice is to be a conservative.
 
Fear No Evil said:
Its funny that the left shows so much tolerance for everyone and their choices.. unless that choice is to be a conservative.
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Its funny that the right shows almost no tolerance for everyone and their choices.. yet criticizes others for their occasional intolerance.
 
Jaskalas said:
Ask liberals, but I figure they'll tell you that gender is a psychological thing that should be freely defined in a person's head and their body altered to accommodate that.
Click to expand...

I dont guess liberals believe in genetics? There are certain genetic traits that men and women do not share.

If science says that sex can be defined on a genetic level, but liberals say its all in your head,,,, how does that work out?

Lets say there was a murder case, could DNA evidence be thrown out because society no longer accepts there are physical differences between men and women?

Where does society draw the line? Science says "yes, there is a difference on a genetic level", but people say "no, there is no difference its all in your head".
 
I don't know where all this liberal vs conservative bullshit came from (although its ATPN so every thread has to be about it), but what I posted is the psychological and medical accepted definition, which has nothing to do with what side of the political spectrum you choose to fall under.
 
Texashiker said:
I dont guess liberals believe in genetics? There are certain genetic traits that men and women do not share.

If science says that sex can be defined on a genetic level, but liberals say its all in your head,,,, how does that work out?

Lets say there was a murder case, could DNA evidence be thrown out because society no longer accepts there are physical differences between men and women?

Where does society draw the line? Science says "yes, there is a difference on a genetic level", but people say "no, there is no difference its all in your head".
Click to expand...

Just because someone has a certain genetic component or another doesn't mean that they should required to be have a differently than another
 
LumbergTech said:
Just because someone has a certain genetic component or another doesn't mean that they should required to be have a differently than another
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How can someone call themselves man or woman, when they are not that type of person on a genetic level?

If I called myself a grizzly bear, I would not be magically transformed into a bear.

How about a fish, just because I call myself a fish does not mean I can grow gills and breath water.
 
zsdersw said:
Obviously you've never been to a lesbian bar before. Plenty of people there with women parts but all-male personalities.

Seriously, though, this isn't really shocking to me.

Our naive belief that life-death, male-female, and heterosexual/homosexual concepts are static and rigid will one day come crashing down around us... forcing the ignorance of the past into a smaller and smaller corner of society.
Click to expand...

These are not opinion concepts. They don't change because of your opinion and they are not basis of ignorance. Those beliefs are true and unchangeable facts, not concepts. We all can have "explanations" of our beliefs, but that doesn't change the very proof positive facts.

The fact is, this is proof that no matter much a person tries to change the outside, the true natural born state of the person remains unchanged. And I believe that when all the arguments are laid aside, the truth is what remains. This is and always will be a woman, no matter how they may believe, think, look, or feel. Fact is she was born a woman and will die a woman, even if she lies to herself until the day she dies.
 
Texashiker said:
How can someone call themselves man or woman, when they are not that type of person on a genetic level?

If I called myself a grizzly bear, I would not be magically transformed into a bear.

How about a fish, just because I call myself a fish does not mean I can grow gills and breath water.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should make a litttle effort to educate yourself before spewing ignorance.

There's plenty of information easily available. You sound like the kind of person who claims 'gays aren't natural' because you haven't met one before, so you make it up.

You can talk all day about what gays must be like, based on not knowing a thing.
 
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