The joy of religion - part xxxxxxxxx

[Retro Rob]

But lets put aside that little quandary for a moment and ignore the "human condition" and instead focus on the priestly condition. To become a priest a person goes through a lot of steps and is finally ordained in what the wannabelievers view as a holy sacrament. God himself bestows his almighty blessing on that person to be his representative on Earth and do his work as god himself is an absentee. God supposedly looks into their hearts personally and says "yep, that's my guy, that's who I want." How does the almighty do a worse job of background checks when he's hiring his own handpicked representatives than McDonalds does when they're hiring a part-timer to work the drive through window? Even if God tolerates ordinary people preying on kids, why does he hire priests that do it? Surely he can weed out the pedophiles somewhere along the way. God promises to protect his followers from ALL evil and yet he fails to protect them from his very own, hand-picked employees and that doesn't strike you as an abject failure on god's part? You have a pretty low expectation of a divine being.

What about the many that aren't pedophiles (which there are)?

Did God do a proper check on them and get it right?

Since there are some that are and some that aren't, then perhaps the truth of the matter is the human condition plays a HUGE role, unless you can show that non-religious people or non-Christians have never had pedophiles among them.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The one thing I've always found to be quite odd with this condemned to hell deal is that supposedly unless you accept Jesus as your savior you will be condemned to hell however, that does not apply to those of the Jewish religion as they are given a pass due to Jesus being a Jew.

 

[buckshot24]

The one thing I've always found to be quite odd with this condemned to hell deal is that supposedly unless you accept Jesus as your savior you will be condemned to hell however, that does not apply to those of the Jewish religion as they are given a pass due to Jesus being a Jew.

Jews need Jesus too. They are the chosen people to bring forth the Messiah but individually they don't get a pass.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

What about the many that aren't pedophiles (which there are)?

Did God do a proper check on them and get it right?

Since there are some that are and some that aren't, then perhaps the truth of the matter is the human condition plays a HUGE role, unless you can show that non-religious people or non-Christians have never had pedophiles among them.

So god gets it right sometime? Sometime? No, god gets it right none of the time. As the wannabelievers are so quick to point out when defending their invisible man in the sky, the rate of pedophilia among priests is about equal to the rate of pedophilia in the population as a whole. Which means that if god did no background check whatsoever the rate of pedophilia in priests would be the same as it is now.

But let's get back to that lameass point you were trying to make before it all blew up in your face. Why would god only get it right sometime? Why can't an omnipotent, omniscient being get it right all the time? What do you consider to be an acceptable rate of utter failure before one loses the cloak of omnipotence and is viewed as inept, impotent and useless?

 

[shira]

You are important to me, you and what lies latent within you. You have no need and no life insurance. My aim is to tell you that if your circumstances should change there is still there's still a way back for you. I know that you can't help the I'm saved your not scenario and that you are feel insulted by my concern.

I'm sorry, I think you've got it backward, It's you who can't help the "I'm saved, you're not" scenario. I know for sure that I'm not saved. I know for sure I'm capable of "falling." I know for sure that I'm capable of fear and insecurity and cowardice and dishonor. I know that my life could crumble and be filled with misery. I definitely hope these bad things won't happen, but I know they might. And if really bad things do happen, I'm hopeful that I'll have the internal resources to recover.

So I move forward with my life. And - at least for my life so far - things have been pretty good. Not perfect, not without some suffering, but good enough.

So, no, I'm not insulted. Just irritated at times that you so often project your own issues onto others. But I accept that that's a part of your own struggle, so I'm trying to be gentle with you. I don't always succeed, and I'm sorry for that; I'm only human.

 

[Retro Rob]

So god gets it right sometime? Sometime?

I was holding out hope that you thought about this for a moment.

What about the idea that God has nothing to do with how a person chooses to live out his priesthood?

Some have started out good, got corrupted, turned pedo, some struggled with it for years...some never touch children and stay in their faith, or some variation of these.

It depends on the person, ultimately.

As the wannabelievers are so quick to point out when defending their invisible man in the sky, the rate of pedophilia among priests is about equal to the rate of pedophilia in the population as a whole. Which means that if god did no background check whatsoever the rate of pedophilia in priests would be the same as it is now.

Again, think. Just because a person is now a pedophile doesn't mean he started out that way. People aren't born pedos, no more than they are born thieves, murderers, etc.

But let's get back to that lameass point you were trying to make before it all blew up in your face. Why would god only get it right sometime? Why can't an omnipotent, omniscient being get it right all the time? What do you consider to be an acceptable rate of utter failure before one loses the cloak of omnipotence and is viewed as inept, impotent and useless?

Where did I say God gets it right "sometimes"?

 

[shira]

Oh and omnipotence doesn't require its usage all the time.

I never said it did. The omnipotence was used just once; at the instant of creation of the entire universe (which included you).

You seem to forget that God's omniscience allowed him to know with absolute certainty the behavior of every point in the universe for all eternity, given the initial conditions he created. Had He wanted a different behavior, he would have created a different set of initial conditions. But once he chose those initial conditions, he only had to use his omnipotence that one, initial time to create them, and all choice was removed forever after.

 

[fskimospy]

I never said it did. The omnipotence was used just once; at the instant of creation of the entire universe (which included you).

You seem to forget that God's omniscience allowed him to know with absolute certainty the behavior of every point in the universe for all eternity, given the initial conditions he created. Had He wanted a different behavior, he could have created a different set of initial conditions. But once he chose those initial conditions, he only had to use his omnipotence that one, initial time to create them, and all choice was removed forever after.

I am amazed how people are having so much trouble understanding this. If God made everything and knew exactly how it would turn out when he made it, choice is an illusion.

 

[buckshot24]

I never said it did. The omnipotence was used just once; at the instant of creation of the entire universe (which included you).

You seem to forget that God's omniscience allowed him to know with absolute certainty the behavior of every point in the universe for all eternity, given the initial conditions he created. Had He wanted a different behavior, he would have created a different set of initial conditions. But once he chose those initial conditions, he only had to use his omnipotence that one, initial time to create them, and all choice was removed forever after.

That doesn't have anything to do with free will. Again, assuming known=not free without justification.

 

[FelixDeCat]

God is perfect, we are not.

 

[shira]

That doesn't have anything to do with free will. Again, assuming known=not free without justification.

You're right, it has NOTHING to do with free will. It has EVERYTHING to do with NOT having free will.

 

[buckshot24]

You're right, it has NOTHING to do with free will. It has EVERYTHING to do with NOT having free will.

Not cute. It has nothing to do with people having or not having free will.

 

[bshole]

And how do you know its not all the same God? Allah and Yahweh? Certain Text and bstole wont have any quick witted answers on that day.

Um right, if you are relying on Jesus for salvation, you are going to hell. Mutually exclusive. If you really want to be safe, you can stop being a Christian (your salvation cannot be lost one received on that front) and convert to Islam. That would cover you for two religions.

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers

Of course, you may not have been the right kind of Christian to get to heaven in the first place. My fundamentalist Dad believes PASSIONATELY that anybody who believes they need baptism to get to haven are damned to hell. Most Catholics believe that you can't get to heaven unless you are baptized. There are many flavours of Christianity that are mutually exclusive in terms of salvation. Since you are reduced to blind faith in selecting the right one, pray to God you randomly select the right one.

We won't even go into ALL the other religions out there...

So be very very careful, you can only cover so much of your ass.

 

[Retro Rob]

Gaghalfrunt,

After reading Felix's post about us being human, do you have a better way of screening out pedophiles so they won't become priests?

If you do, please present the evidence that it works better than what's in place now.

Thanks

 

[bshole]

Damnit buck said he was leaving and the dishonest shit came back. That is Christian morals for you, they can lie through their ass with impunity. What a testimony for God he is.

 

[shira]

We are all human you silly atheist. God is perfect, we are not. Unfortunately pedophiles are a dime a dozen these days. The best they can do is blend in like the gays, transvestites and breeders.

What more do you want?

Look at you. You claim to be a believer, yet you're clearly filled with contempt for sinners. And you clearly make no effort to reform your ways. Which makes you an unrepentent sinner, just like the pedophiles, gays, transvestites, and breeders you despise.

What, honestly, would Jesus say about your behavior? And if you try some lame excuse, ANY lame excuse, how come you don't cut pedophiles, gays, transvestites, and breeders the same slack you cut yourself?

 

[shira]

Not cute. It has nothing to do with people having or not having free will.

You're in denial. Totally understandable, though. How could you remain happy if you allowed yourself to see a truth that severely undermined your faith?

I forgive you.

 

[buckshot24]

You're in denial. Totally understandable, though. How could you remain happy if you allowed yourself to see a truth that severely undermined your faith?

I forgive you.

I think you should let me determine that. But thank you for your concern.

Can we talk about the origin of life now?

 

[bshole]

We are all human you silly atheist. God is perfect, we are not. Unfortunately pedophiles are a dime a dozen these days. The best they can do is blend in like the gays, transvestites and breeders.

What more do you want?

Equating pedophiles with gays? The is some seriously fucked up morals on your part.

Weirdly God NEVER condemned pedophilia. Not even once.

God did NOT know that pedophilia/slavery/genocide/human sacrifice was morally wrong but he DID know that homosexuality/working on the Sabbath was morally wrong.

Your God's morals are misaligned with modern man's morals. You have to either lie about him to align his morals to modern society or become a reprehensible hateful person to align yours to his.

 

[FelixDeCat]

()

 

[FelixDeCat]

Equating pedophiles with gays? The is some seriously fucked up morals on your part.

Weirdly God NEVER condemned pedophilia. Not even once.

Your rant is tired.

 

[bshole]

I think I included every possible sexual persuasion on Earth when I included the breeders. Funny how you forgot to mention them.

Your rant is tired.

The sole reason for homosexuality being wrong is because God told you so? Really?


Why do you accept his word on that but not on rape or pedophilia?

 

[buckshot24]

bshole is a biblical hack and when you call him on his misrepresentations he plows ahead as if nothing happened.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Gaghalfrunt,

After reading Felix's post about us being human, do you have a better way of screening out pedophiles so they won't become priests?

If you do, please present the evidence that it works better than what's in place now.

Thanks

Yes, it's simple. How about your omnipotent invisible magical man in the sky step up and handle it. Why can't he? They're gods representatives, they're his people, he hires them. This isn't difficult

1) God CAN'T weed out the pedophiles.
2) God WANTS pedophile priests
3) God doesn't exist

Those are the only 3 possibilities. He either can't do it, can do it and yet refuses to do it or he's not there at all. Pick one.

 

[Retro Rob]

Yes, it's simple. How about your omnipotent invisible magical man in the sky step up and handle it. Why can't he? They're gods representatives, they're his people, he hires them. This isn't difficult

1) God CAN'T weed out the pedophiles.
2) God WANTS pedophile priests
3) God doesn't exist

Those are the only 3 possibilities. He either can't do it, can do it and yet refuses to do it or he's not there at all. Pick one.

Translation: "I have no solution because I'd rather bitch about there not being one".