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Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by Sweepr, Sep 11, 2013.
True, that would be a nice add on.
anyone know if any of these $100 tablets can boot windows 10 technical preview?
i dont see why not.
Rumour: Cherry Trail ramps in March 2015 (DigiTimes): www.digitimes.com/news/a20141003PD205.html
Quite a bit later than expected, but I'm hopeful there will be lots of interesting CT-T devices in H1/2015.
I bought the $140 BayTrail tablet from Microcenter (TW801: 2gb of RAM, 32gb of flash), and it has really made a believer out of me. Very snappy performance for a full-blown OS on a tablet at the price range. Everyone I've shown it to has been blown away. Battery life is not amazing, but doesn't impact usage of the device on the go. The inclusion of a free year of Office 365 is a big plus, too. I suspect these things will sell insanely well during the holiday season, especially if Microsoft and Intel market them correctly.
IMHO, some of these bigger manufacturers are making a mistake by not going with 2gb or 4gb of RAM. I know, power draw is increased, but it makes a huge difference to usability. I don't think 64bit vs 32bit makes as much of a difference, really.
Yes, I am tempted by that. I am sort of waiting for the 100.00 model though, but it has less storage. However, I just cant believe the attitude of my local microcenter toward these tablets, and windows tablets in general. The display is sloppy, the tablets in poor condition, they are attached to a stand that makes them hard to use, and there was a salesman actively discouraging a customer from buying one of these, saying how hard it was to use, didnt have a stand, etc. Maybe he wanted to steer the customer toward a more expensive ultrabook or surface (commission?), but really, I am rooting for windows tablets to do well, and this kind of attitude from retailers/salespeople is just beyond shocking.
Edit: Actually, Microcenter has the 100.00 model in stock now. It has only 1gb of ram though, so it might be worth the extra 40.00 for the 139.00 model. At least Microcenter is featuring them in their advertising now, even if the in-store support is atrocious. Perhaps there will be a killer deal on some of these for Black Friday.
Is anyone using Ubuntu on a J1800. Does it run smooth for browsing and music? That's pretty much all I do.
Also, last I heard Ubuntu performs worse than Windows 8 on Bay Trail? Has that improved by now?
I run Debian (Jessie) on a J1800 with 4 GB DRAM and see no issues browsing or playing music. Playing music, it ramps down to 1.6 GHz and runs at 4-5% system utilization. Browsing, I get a kick out of watching the CPU utilization bounce around as pages load and sometimes the CPU speed will briefly bounce above 1.6 GHz. Oddly, Rsync of large files will drive CPU speed to a sustained 3.1 GHz and utilization will go to 30-50%. The only time I observe anything I see as a deficit is in AisleRiot Solitaire when dragging a stack of cards to the edge of the screen the stack will distort until released. Basically, I would say the J1800 is overkill for your use pattern unless you have "golden ears" or open more than 5 tabs at a time when browsing.
Thanks. Overkill though? It's the cheapest most low-end option now. And it can't even run solitaire decently?
And yes, I often have 5 or more tabs open. Can it run that smoothly? Smooth performance is pretty important.
I may have overstated my case so let me try to clarify. First, my Internet connection is 1Mb/sec at best, frequently worse. Having multiple static tabs open simultaneously in your browser requires memory, not CPU power. CPU power is required to open tabs, not to maintain already open tabs. Web pages that contain video require more CPU power than static web pages. My "home" grouping of tabs includes 4 pages: Gmail, Anandtech, Charles Schwab, and Citibank. Upon opening Iceweasel (unbranded Firefox), my CPU ramps to 3.1 GHz and stays there for 5-6 seconds while CPU utilization is in the 50-60% range. Typically, Gmail, my first tab, is available for log in after 3 seconds. Over the next 2-3 seconds the CPU ramps down to 1.6 GHz and utilization drops as everything finishes opening. Perhaps falsely, I interpret the fact that my utilization does not go above 60% as meaning the CPU is waiting for my Internet connection to provide more data. I think with a faster Internet connection, my utilization would ramp higher and pages would load faster.
The word smooth is inherently subjective and your experience will vary depending upon your expectations, the complexity of the pages you load and the speed of you Internet connection. Your behavior will also affect perceived smoothness as you learn the machine. I have a folder with 12 tabs that I typically open as a group while reading page 1 of the Anandtech site. Because I anticipate, everything is open by the time I get to it. I call that smooth but it is more accurate to say I have learned to work with the CPU so I perceive smoothness. If you have a > 1Mb/sec Internet connection and your standards demand instant response with no anticipatory thought process, you might accurately characterize J1800 as slow. I have no beef with the browser performance and was comfortable switching from an Ivy Bridge NUC to the J1800. By my standards, I perceive no browser deficiency.
As a child, I sometimes played solitaire (but never poker) with cards that might be bent or even torn. It never interfered with my enjoyment of the game. Similarly, the fact that a dragged stack of cards may distort when dragged to the edge of the screen does not trash my enjoyment of AisleRiot solitaire. However, I noted this deficit because it is the primary area where I see that the J1800 graphics as noticeably deficient. The other area where graphics may appear weak is a slide show of high definition photographs. 1080P media consumption, for example, works great for mainstream formats.
I hope this clarification aids your evaluation.
Thank you, that does clarify a lot. One thing though, I thought that 3.1Ghz was a typo in your previous post but the J1800 is only 2.41Ghz? Is it overclocked? I'd like to leave the CPU at stock speed.
My j1800 is not over clocked but j1800 is specified to "briefly" ramp higher than the 2.41 GHz maximum if thermal headroom permits. Because my PCIe slot is populated with an additional nic, I left the case fan connected even though it is probably not required. When using Rsync, it always ramps to 3.1 Ghz and then does not throttle even after 15 minutes. I suspect I have never had a thermal throttle reduce clock speed below 3.1 GHz. Instead, the CPU ramps down because it runs out of work.
Remember, this is a quad core die with 2 cores fused off. My passive heat spreader is likely the same as used for quad core j1900's so the cooling is fully adequate. My recollection is suspect, but I recall after running at 3.1 GHz with ~40-50% utilization for 15 minutes, the temperature peaked around 53 degrees. Right now my cores are at 41 and 40 degrees.
My motherboard is a Gigabyte J1800N-D2H and I overpaid for the initial release. At release there was an installation issue that you had to jump through hoops to get the file bootia32.efi in the correct location. I believe that has been corrected with current versions of this motherboard because I see no further discussion of the issue. Since delivery (consolidated ocean freight) I have been running the board 24/7 and have seen no hardware issue on any kind. Depending on local electric rates, it might be wise to think about your power supply. Power supply efficiency decreases rapidly as you go below 20% of rated output. I am using a 18 watt, 12V AC/DC brick. Based on what is currently in the market, I might pay extra for a board that does not require an ATX power connector.
Thanks, sounds pretty good. Do you happen to have a Watt meter? It's hard to find any reliable power consumption tests because they were all done with ATX PSUs. I'd like to know what this CPU really consumes in idle with an efficient power supply.
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With the case fan plugged in, one live but inactive Internet connection, and the second nic plugged in but inactive, my system draws 13.1-13.5 watts. On checking, I now remember that because I needed a 12 power supply, I had to get a 24 watt AC/DC power supply. Principal components are:
Motherboard: Gigabyte J1800N-D2H
Case: Silverstone SG05BB-LITE
Memory: Crucial 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR3 1600 MT/s 204-Pin 1.35V/1.5V Notebook Memory Modules CT2CP25664BF160B
2nd nic: Redeployed Intel Corporation 82574L Gigabit Network Connection
SSD Intel 120 GB 530 (SSDSC2BW120A4K5)
Hard drive: Redeployed, unknown WD 1TB 2.5" laptop drive
Power Adapter: Mini-box 12v/2A AC-DC Power Adapter
Power supply: Mini-box picoPSU-80
Maybe next month I will replace the second nic with a USB fast Ethernet connector and move what remains to a M-350 case so I can get rid of the case fan. Fast Ethernet should not detriment my 1 Mb/sec Internet connection.
Edit: I removed the case fan and idle watts dropped to 12.4-12.5 watts. A brief stress test with rsync drove CPU temperature to 45 degrees with no thermal throttling from the 3.1 GHz speed. The case fan is now permanently disconnected. My current USB fast ethernet connector required 1.3 watts so that idea is a non starter.
Thanks, that's pretty good but is it unreasonable to think that's still a bit too much? Maybe I should go with the lowest end Intel NUC which draws 4.5W when idle...
My watts required at idle is higher than I expected. I appreciate that 4 GB DRAM, dual nics and dual SATA drives each contribute to the total. Assuming my power supply is 80% efficient, my components require ~10 watts. If the DRAM requires 3.2 watts and each nic requires .8 watts, the two SATA drives require 1 watt (for both), that means the j1800 SoC and everything else require everything else require 4.2 watts. That's about a watt more than I would expect. Desktop chips are tuned to require more electricity than notebook or tablet chips based on consumer's preference for performance over efficiency if it has a plug. I am glad I measured the consumption and disabled the case fan.
Why do I NOT live in US? WHY?
All the tech deals come for US and Asian geeks, I live in Italy not lucky as you.
Seems a fantastic deal ! If only I could get my fingers on it
Can it be shipped internationally in any way ?
$20-40 for a better IPS screen and 2gb ram is worth it, IMHO
I hope its just a rumour.. I think first cherry trail devices should debut at CES, with more products later in Q1/Q2... waiting for a cherry trail ASUS T100 to replace my old netbook..
Lenovo Launches Refreshes Of The Yoga Line
5 new very interesting Windows and Android tablets with long lasting battery life based on Atom Z3745 (Bay Trail-T).
Bay Trail Acer Chromebook 11 now available in the US ($199): www.amazon.com/Acer-Chromebook-CB3-1...SIN=B00MMLV7VQ
Huh.. if Amazon is any indication, Bay Trail Laptops are a hit with consumers. The #1 laptop on there is a 15" Dell with Bay Trail going for $229, including 4 GB of RAM. Most of the Top 10 is Bay Trail.
Hmm not sure why anybody would but bay trail if Core M can do a 10x better job.
Intel needs to stop polluting the environment with crappy tablets that nobody need nor wants. They stifle competition and destroy good designs by shoving bay trail into every vendors mouth. Race to the bottom will end with Intel 6 feet under an apple tree.
Bay Trail right now is being sold in competition for crappy merchant apps processors from Allwinner, Rockchip, Mediatek, etc. Compared to quad core Cortex-A7, any Atom device is miles better, as CPU is pretty much comparable to any other tablet out there and GPU (if Merrifield/Moorefield) is equal to nearly top of the line stuff from Qualcomm, etc., which you don't find in $100-200 tablets. (Even if it's on standard Bay Trail, the GPU is easily equivalent to mid-range Mali, PowerVR solutions you typically find in the quad core A7s)
Are you also calling for the end to all ARM tablets? D:
Your rhetoric is far too over-the-top to promote a decent discussion.