The HD Format War Thread

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
No, the PS3 cannot bitstream. As for the HDMI revisions, most of the features that we would care about are optional to the spec, so just because something is HDMI 1.3, does not mean it supports bitstreaming or deep color. Always get more in-depth descriptions of a product's features.

True, but HDMI 1.3 is a requirement for bitstreaming.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you're waiting for quality HD downloads, looks like you'll be waiting for a while.

According to their tests, the quality is barely above SD quality, and a far cry from HD DVD or Blu-Ray quality.

Not only that, I have been extremely disappointed by Comcast's On-Demand HD. Their feed is probably 720p, and even the latest titles looked awful compared to real Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Call me spoiled, but with my TV set (Sammy 5271F) and my viewing distance (about 10~12 feet) the quality just wasn't there. Every minute I felt like I was watching SD-DVD. Plus, occasional pixelation due probably to less than perfect transmission condition was also often enough to be annoyed.

I wouldn't bring up other shortcomings like rental period or price issue, but I should say I couldn't stand the quality. Yes, I AM SPOILED by near perfect H.264 / VC-1 1080p/24 transfer and I admit it. But I won't waste any money with On-Demand until there is a dramatic change that's for sure.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: cubby1223
No, the PS3 cannot bitstream. As for the HDMI revisions, most of the features that we would care about are optional to the spec, so just because something is HDMI 1.3, does not mean it supports bitstreaming or deep color. Always get more in-depth descriptions of a product's features.

True, but HDMI 1.3 is a requirement for bitstreaming.

HDMI 1.2 & 1.2a do not support bitstreaming the advanced audio codecs, if that's what you're getting at.

If the device supports bitstreaming, then it is at least HDMI 1.3

If the device is HDMI 1.3 (or 1.3a or 1.3b), that alone tells you nothing about bitstreaming support.

 

[Shawn]

Samsung just released a firmware update for their BD-P1200 Blu-ray player. Pirates 3, Die Hard 4, Pixar Shorts, and Sunshine now work.

3:10 to Yuma still does not work.

 

[JJChicken]

how far has this thread gone? have we reached 1000 posts yet? 2000?

 

[jpeyton]

For our international members:

German distributor Highlight Video goes Blu-Ray exclusive.

Spanish distributor Manga Films goes Blu-Ray 'quasi'-exclusive. (by 'quasi', I mean they only have Blu-Ray titles on their release schedule, but aren't officially format exclusive)

And not that it matters much at this point, but Onkyo is planning on dumping their HD DVD support. That was expected by many; Toshiba's insistence on fire-sale prices and razor-thin margins scared all the CE manufacturers to the Blu-Ray camp. As consumers, I'm sure we'd all prefer Toshiba's strategy; as businesses, I'm sure we'd prefer Sony's strategy.

 

[Slick5150]

Just ran across this blurb in the news and found it interesting. This is why the "format war" is ultimately a red herring, because the real war is convincing people that they need either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, which is not going well..

People Happy With DVD, Not Likely To Switch to Hi-Def, Says Study
Relatively few consumers are planning to make the transition from DVDs to high-definition HD DVD or Blu-ray, according to a survey by NPD Group. The researchers said that among owners of HDTV sets, seven out of 10 say they see no need to purchase high-definition players, maintaining that they are satisfied with the quality of their current players. "one of the main challenges for the next-generation" format, NPD Group senior entertainment industry analyst Russ Crupnick told Bloomberg News, "is you have a product out there that is pretty darn good in consumers' eyes."

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
Just ran across this blurb in the news and found it interesting. This is why the "format war" is ultimately a red herring, because the real war is convincing people that they need either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, which is not going well..

People Happy With DVD, Not Likely To Switch to Hi-Def, Says Study
Relatively few consumers are planning to make the transition from DVDs to high-definition HD DVD or Blu-ray, according to a survey by NPD Group. The researchers said that among owners of HDTV sets, seven out of 10 say they see no need to purchase high-definition players, maintaining that they are satisfied with the quality of their current players. "one of the main challenges for the next-generation" format, NPD Group senior entertainment industry analyst Russ Crupnick told Bloomberg News, "is you have a product out there that is pretty darn good in consumers' eyes."

ultimately, that makes a lot of sense.. a lot of people aren't snobs about picture quality, and don't care.. it seems a lot of owners of HDTV's really only got one because they needed to replace their aging CRT, and decided it's time to go big with one of the new technologies.. so they are now in the HD world, but what do they want with it, other than it's a new tv that's got a big screen? some of them get HD cable or satellite services, just because its an option they can now use, and its fancy. probably mostly used for sporting events. A lot of people aren't huge into movies and don't necessarily watch them all the time, unless its something on TV.

The first step for HDM to take hold is for there to be a single format, and then focus on industry-wide consumer education. Right now, there is still very little format education, and they don't think they need it.
These small displays they are using on retail end-caps to educate consumers about BD, is kind of pathetic. Sure, it does show the difference between DVD and BD, but they need to also use some large displays too. Keep the smaller ones so that the people who bought the 32" 720p LCD's and whatnot, can relate and see what the difference is and if they want it.. but...
I dunno.. another thing is that going from VHS to DVD was huge, mainly because it was going from magnetic tape to optical disc. Consumers could see, just by looking at the boxes, that there was something radically different. That's something that some people may be recalling too.

 

[Genx87]

HD will take over DVD when the prices fall in line. Until then it is a niche market for people who are interested in higher quality picture and sound.

 

[DaveSimmons]

HD-DVD bounces back! (somewhat) - TheDigitalBits has numbers for week ending 2/3:

Nielsen/Videoscan retail disc sales 2/3

blu-ray 74%
HD-DVD 26%

This does not include pack-ins, 5-free, or PS3 game discs.

HD-DVD is still much lower than its old 33% retail share, but it's much better than the 18% from the week before.

The Bits does mention though that some retailers have been flooded with HD-DVD player returns and now have more used players on hand than new stock.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
HD-DVD bounces back! (somewhat) - TheDigitalBits has numbers for week ending 2/3:

Nielsen/Videoscan retail disc sales 2/3

blu-ray 74%
HD-DVD 26%

This does not include pack-ins, 5-free, or PS3 game discs.

HD-DVD is still much lower than its old 33% retail share, but it's much better than the 18% from the week before.

The Bits does mention though that some retailers have been flooded with HD-DVD player returns and now have more used players on hand than new stock.

I read that HD-DVD had a B1G1 last week.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
HD-DVD bounces back! (somewhat) - TheDigitalBits has numbers for week ending 2/3:

Nielsen/Videoscan retail disc sales 2/3

blu-ray 74%
HD-DVD 26%

This does not include pack-ins, 5-free, or PS3 game discs.

HD-DVD is still much lower than its old 33% retail share, but it's much better than the 18% from the week before.

The Bits does mention though that some retailers have been flooded with HD-DVD player returns and now have more used players on hand than new stock.

I read that HD-DVD had a B1G1 last week.

they did...9 of top 10 HD DVD sales for the week were part of the B1G1 free sale at Best Buy.

1. Transformers Paramount
2. Bourne Supremacy Universal
3. Shooter Paramount
4. Bourne Identity Universal
5. Serenity Universal
6. The Mummy Universal
7. Bourne Ultimatum Universal - (not part of the sale at Best Buy)
8. Shrek the Third Paramount
9. Smokin' Aces Universal
10. Shaun of the Dead Universal

I picked up the Mummy and Smokin Aces for $20 (had a coupon for $5 off (was supposed to be for a blu ray movie but they applied it anyway) plus a $5 reward zone coupon).

 

[spacejamz]

some disk sales numbers (from the highdef forums) for this year and last year (numbers in are in the thousands):

Week....... BD... HD DVD
01/06/08... 301... 162
01/13/08... 322... 57
01/20/08... 200... 41
01/27/08... 177... 39
02/03/08... 147... 52

last year:

Week....... BD.....HD DVD
01/07/07... 45... 26
01/14/07... 46... 21
01/21/07... 53... 25
01/28/07... 48... 22
02/04/07... 46... 21

 

[spacejamz]

dp

 

[jpeyton]

Text

BURBANK -- Word working its way around the Warner Bros. 85th anniversary event on the studio lot Tuesday night was that some electronics retailers are being flooded with returns of HD DVD players. In fact, so many are being returned that some retailers are in possession of more returned HD DVD players than new stock. I won't tell you who said what or which retailers we're talking about, but I will tell you that execs from Amazon.com and Best Buy were in attendance.

Probably a combination of the WB announcement + the anemic HD DVD Q1 release schedule.

Good news for those of you who want a cheap open-box player; someone on AVS mentioned they found open-box HD-A3s for $60 at Best Buy.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

BURBANK -- Word working its way around the Warner Bros. 85th anniversary event on the studio lot Tuesday night was that some electronics retailers are being flooded with returns of HD DVD players. In fact, so many are being returned that some retailers are in possession of more returned HD DVD players than new stock. I won't tell you who said what or which retailers we're talking about, but I will tell you that execs from Amazon.com and Best Buy were in attendance.

Probably a combination of the WB announcement + the anemic HD DVD Q1 release schedule.

Good news for those of you who want a cheap open-box player; someone on AVS mentioned they found open-box HD-A3s for $60 at Best Buy.

I still don't see why people would return them. there are still HD-DVD only releases coming out. I have several in my Netflix queue. They are also some pretty good units for upconverting DVDs.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

BURBANK -- Word working its way around the Warner Bros. 85th anniversary event on the studio lot Tuesday night was that some electronics retailers are being flooded with returns of HD DVD players. In fact, so many are being returned that some retailers are in possession of more returned HD DVD players than new stock. I won't tell you who said what or which retailers we're talking about, but I will tell you that execs from Amazon.com and Best Buy were in attendance.

Probably a combination of the WB announcement + the anemic HD DVD Q1 release schedule.

Good news for those of you who want a cheap open-box player; someone on AVS mentioned they found open-box HD-A3s for $60 at Best Buy.

that was me!!! I got one for $65 and it even had bourne/300 in the box...

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Jumpem
I still don't see why people would return them. there are still HD-DVD only releases coming out. I have several in my Netflix queue. They are also some pretty good units for upconverting DVDs.

they are thinking long term...if they can't get new HD DVD movies next year for their player, then why keep it?

 

[spacejamz]

Netflix is dropping HD DVD by the end of the year

Text

Netflix says chooses Blu-ray format over HD DVD

NEW YORK, Feb 11 (Reuters) - Online video rental company Netflix Inc (NFLX.O: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Monday it would exclusively stock Blu-ray high-definition DVDs after a decision by some the world's biggest movie studios in favor of the Sony Corp (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) developed format.

Netflix has stocked DVDs using both Blu-ray and the competing HD DVD format developed by Toshiba Corp (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) since they first came on the market in early 2006.

Four out of six major Hollywood studios have recently decided to publish high-definition DVDs only using Blu-ray.

Netflix said that with such a clear signal from the industry, it will only buy Blu-ray discs going forward and will phase out stock of HD DVD by about the end of the year. (Reporting by Michele Gershberg, editing by Dave Zimmerman)

 

[Ricochet]

^^

That absolutely sucks that Netflix decided to drop HD DVD. Despite their limited selection I really did like having that choice.

 

[Arkaign]

Wow what an incredible flame-out by HD-DVD? I never expected a format to be so utterly destroyed so soon.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: ricochet
^^

That absolutely sucks that Netflix decided to drop HD DVD. Despite their limited selection I really did like having that choice.

:thumbsup:

 

[Uppsala9496]

Well, looks like I will be closing my netflix account as soon as my queue of HD movies is done.
I wonder how many subscribers will drop the service? I'd love to know if what they are going to lose in subscriptions is greater than the cost of stocking new HD releases.
Well, Netflix was good to me for a couple of years. Maybe if I ever decided to get a BR player, I'll subscribe again. That won't be until BR players are in the sub $120 range though.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

BURBANK -- Word working its way around the Warner Bros. 85th anniversary event on the studio lot Tuesday night was that some electronics retailers are being flooded with returns of HD DVD players. In fact, so many are being returned that some retailers are in possession of more returned HD DVD players than new stock. I won't tell you who said what or which retailers we're talking about, but I will tell you that execs from Amazon.com and Best Buy were in attendance.

Probably a combination of the WB announcement + the anemic HD DVD Q1 release schedule.

Good news for those of you who want a cheap open-box player; someone on AVS mentioned they found open-box HD-A3s for $60 at Best Buy.

I still don't see why people would return them. there are still HD-DVD only releases coming out. I have several in my Netflix queue. They are also some pretty good units for upconverting DVDs.

Because people have this all or nothing attitude. Their worlds are black and white as well if you debate them on other topics.

The rest of us who can get past running two formats for HD will milk the HD-DVD gravy train until it finally comes to a stop. In the process grabbing a lot of movies for cheap and have a nice collection for much cheaper than what we could have got going BluRay at this point in time.

 

[cubby1223]

^^^^

I'm not looking up the numbers, just going from approximate memory - ~750k HD DVD players (standalones + xbox add-ons), ~3m HD DVD movies sold, that's an attach rate of 4. The general person buying a new format buys the movies that will be released, not the movies that have already been released (this is why we don't see the big money making catalog titles until there is a huge install base).

Now let's talk player price, these returned in January aren't the $99 Wal*Mart specials, their return period is long since gone. The post holiday returns would have sold for $200-$250. Now reference the attach rate above, is anyone going to keep their $200+ player to buy 3-4 movies and have the format dry up after that? It's not an all or nothing attitude, it's just looking at a typical consumer's spending habits objectively. They don't buy catalog titles in mass like you would. You have the attach rate right there. Doesn't matter what format they buy into, they're buying the new releases, and for HD DVD they are drying up very fast.