Question The FX 8350 revisited. Good time to talk about it because reasons.

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Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
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You're so full of bull your eyes are brown. I stopped reading after you called K12 something else. What was it supposed to be other than an ARM CPU?

K10 was Phenom. K9 never existed for obvious reasons. There was K8L.

And you just magically pulled up old slides from 10+ years ago? Nonsense.

OK I read a bit more. "told press". You have slides from over 10 years ago but can't provide evidence of "told press"? Nice homework there.

Bulldozer was also never 45nm, rather iterations of it began at 32nm and went to 28nm.
Not to add to the already extended thread crapping from the usual suspect..
IIRC there were two very different designs on the draw board at the time of K8, the one that was ultimately selected was Bulldozer while the other project, dubbed K9 unofficialy, was discarded early and was quite close to Zen since it was supposed to use a 8 issues pipeline.
 

NostaSeronx

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Sep 18, 2011
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Not to add to the already extended thread crapping from the usual suspect..
IIRC there were two very different designs on the draw board at the time of K8, the one that was ultimately selected was Bulldozer while the other project, dubbed K9 unofficialy, was discarded early and was quite close to Zen since it was supposed to use a 8 issues pipeline.
It was not actually quite close to Zen:

Mitch Alsup:
-- Chief Architect of K9 designed to be a 5 GHz successor to the 3 GHz Opteron family.
-- My K9 design at AMD had both the INT and FP register file in one place,
with slightly different tag and data timing for the FP and INT sections.
The dynamic instruction window was much easier to construct with the
common PRF.

-- According to Alsup, it was designed to be close to 95% of original K8 IPC but reach 5GHz frequency in a 35 nm process[sic: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1469238]. At the time of cancellation most of the logic was running in SPICE at 5GHz and majority of the layout was done.
The K9 pipeline was dual-quad issue. It was described by Alsup as: "K9 fetched 8 instructions every other cycle and made 2 branch predictions associated with 3 next fetch addresses every other cycle. K9 issued 4 instructions per cycle and took 2 cycles to issue a fetch width."

-----
"In one embodiment, each of the execution core(s) 124 may include functional units such as an integer unit configured to perform integer arithmetic operations of addition and subtraction, as well as shifts, rotates, logical operations, and branch operations. A floating point unit may also be included to accommodate floating point operations. One or more of the execution core(s) 124 may be configured to perform address generation for load and store memory operations to be performed by load store unit 126."

In this case, the closest architecture is "Bobcat":
bobcat65nm.png
amd-bobcat.png
---- and if were are more aggressively talking about Alsup:

alsupk10isbulldozer.png

Ask any Lead Architect, Chief Architect, Chief Technology Officer:
K10 replied back is Bulldozer
K9 replied back is Greyhound
amdgreyhound.png

K7 (Argon) -> K8 (Hammer) -> K9 (Greyhound) -> K10 (Bulldozer)

dk2bulldozer.png
(Bloodhound is the 45nm Quad-core w/o L3 = https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiB_LqAq_D3AhUJDkQIHQbCDUYQFnoECBMQAQ&url=https://imgur.com/t/cpu/jBhb4Iz&usg=AOvVaw1_z3CVEUjUJtkIYnELMd67)
kanterk10bulldozer.png

Original timeline via eetimes:
"Hester: We are evolving to what I'd say are a minimum of two brand-new core design points, new microarchitectures from the ground up. One is aimed at mobile computers and the very low-power space. Another is optimized for the high-end server space.
...
EET: When will those microarchitectures be ready?
Hester: It's an '07-'08 discussion for both of them — in that general range."


Hence, the D.K. comment on the real "K10" Bulldozer that slipped a lot further than that.

A good time to set the record straight and correct the naming.

Also, found a bit of Bobcat history. The "Congo/Yukon" platforms originally were supposed to be 65nm K9 Mobile(Griffin(formerly, K8L)) and 65nm Bobcat.
2009_K8_2010_K9.png
However, they rolled back to to K8 for both and dropped the UMPC market.
amdk8g.png

2008 launch date, all 65nm(>May 2007 slides):
Griffin-LP (Dual-core K8L w/ 512 KB L2) = 15.5W
Sable-LP (Single-core K8L w/ 512 KB L2) = 9W
Bobcat (Single-core BT65 w/ 256 KB L2) = 5W

2009 actual launch, all 65nm:
Conesus (Dual-core K8G w/ 512 KB L2) = 18W
Huron (Single-core K8G w/ 256 KB L2) = 15W/8W
2010 saw it replaced by Greyhound 45nm(GH45) cores.

Inputting 2009 with Bulldozer/Bobcat 45nm(June 2007-September 2007 slides):
Falcon (Single-core K10 w/ 1 MB L2) = Up to 20W, Computex 2007: 15.5W (Mainstream UT)
Shrike (Dual-core BT45 w/ 512 KB L2) = Up to 10W, Computex 2007: 9W (Value UT)
Shrike2 (Single-core BT45 w/ 512 KB L2) = Up to 5W, Computex 2007: 5W (UMPC)
All of them had 80 SP VLIW5 on-die.

K8G was the original shrink, K8F shrunk
It didn't have K8L -> K9 -> Lion or K8H -> K9 -> Greyhound, power management:
k8l.png
 
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Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
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It was not actually quite close to Zen:

Mitch Alsup:
-- Chief Architect of K9 designed to be a 5 GHz successor to the 3 GHz Opteron family.
-- My K9 design at AMD had both the INT and FP register file in one place,
with slightly different tag and data timing for the FP and INT sections.
The dynamic instruction window was much easier to construct with the
common PRF.

-- According to Alsup, it was designed to be close to 95% of original K8 IPC but reach 5GHz frequency in a 35 nm process[sic: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1469238]. At the time of cancellation most of the logic was running in SPICE at 5GHz and majority of the layout was done.
The K9 pipeline was dual-quad issue. It was described by Alsup as: "K9 fetched 8 instructions every other cycle and made 2 branch predictions associated with 3 next fetch addresses every other cycle. K9 issued 4 instructions per cycle and took 2 cycles to issue a fetch width."

-----
"In one embodiment, each of the execution core(s) 124 may include functional units such as an integer unit configured to perform integer arithmetic operations of addition and subtraction, as well as shifts, rotates, logical operations, and branch operations. A floating point unit may also be included to accommodate floating point operations. One or more of the execution core(s) 124 may be configured to perform address generation for load and store memory operations to be performed by load store unit 126."

In this case, the closest architecture is "Bobcat":
View attachment 61827
View attachment 61828
---- and if were are more aggressively talking about Alsup:

View attachment 61829

Ask any Lead Architect, Chief Architect, Chief Technology Officer:
K10 replied back is Bulldozer
K9 replied back is Greyhound

K7 (Argon) -> K8 (Hammer) -> K9 (Greyhound) -> K10 (Bulldozer)

View attachment 61831

Original timeline via eetimes:
"Hester: We are evolving to what I'd say are a minimum of two brand-new core design points, new microarchitectures from the ground up. One is aimed at mobile computers and the very low-power space. Another is optimized for the high-end server space.
...
EET: When will those microarchitectures be ready?
Hester: It's an '07-'08 discussion for both of them — in that general range."


Hence, the D.K. comment on the real "K10" Bulldozer that slipped a lot further than that.

A good time to set the record straight and correct the naming.
Why don't you quit while you're behind?
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
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I said a 8 issues pipeline , and here what can be found on a link you posted :
So read first what i said and more thoroughly the very litterature you re posting...
I still doubt that you have actually read or compared K9 or Zen. Original K9 is fundamentally different than Zen.
K10-Bulldozer that launched via front-end is more closely related to Zen:
4-decode => cycle0 4-issue for thread 0 + cycle1 4-issue for thread 1.

However, the closest architecture based off the literature is Bobcat.
As well as the original K10 Bulldozer:
128-entry Retire
# Integer Rename
Integer Execution Core 0 = Scheduler+ALU+ALU
Integer Execution Core 1 = Scheduler+ALU+ALU
Memory Execution Core = Scheduler+AGU+AGU+AGU
# Floating Point Rename
Floating Point Execution Core = Scheduler+FPU+FPU+FPU+FPU
----- "Next-gen Opteron"(2006) -- Family 15h(2009 the below is just a leftover of original K10 / Bulldozer) ----
static const int num_fu[] = {
0, /* NONE */
4, /* ALU */
3, /* AGU */
4, /* FPU */
};
---- Bobcat 2,2,2 (LP Memories, LP Synthesis) --> Bulldozer 4,3,4 (HP Memories, HP Synthesis). Both of these are described lightly but both cores shared the basic building blocks just orientated towards different markets. M-SPACE CPU architecture {Bulldozer && Bobcat} which was suppose to make use of the JDA Synthesis Tool Suite. Hence, a more aggressive separation than the prior modular-class of cores:
65nm early modular: Fam 11h (Lion) for low-power(K8L dual core => Griffin/K9 Mobile/Low-power) and Fam 10h (Greyhound) for high-performance(K8H Quad-core => Deerhound/Greyhound, K9/Greyhound core && K8H Dual-core => Elkhound, K9/Greyhound core || Elkhound never came out, but Dachshund(45nm w/ Greyhound+/K9+) did):dachshund.jpeg
45nm launch modular: Fam 14h (Bobcat) for low power(original Shrike - Dual-core/Single-core variants) and Fam 15h (Bulldozer) for high performance(original Falcon - Single core variant) and Sandtiger(8-cores/16-cores).

Bobcat is 0.9x of K8.
K8/K8H/K8L is baseline.
Bulldozer is 1.4x in singlethreaded mode or 1.8x in multithreaded mode(when two threads were on K10 vs only one thread on K9(GH)) from K8/K8H/K8L, when it was a modular/partitioned core from Bobcat.

Which from up above ~late 2007, Bulldozer transitioned back to full custom(84 macros). With Steamroller using a hybrid amount of Full custom macros and Semi custom(non-critical parts were synthesized aka complied) macros, IEEE paper doesn't disclose the amount of each.

65nm/45nm Joint-Development Alliance's synthesis tools were largely broken. It was so broken IBM didn't bother using Synthesis till POWER8.
POWER8 circuit design:
"Using the described design techniques the team was able to use the automated design construction flow to achieve custom-like design quality and timing results, while meeting the rigorous sign-off requirements needed for server processors."
AMD was two years early with Puma and Steamroller using synthesis, more aggressively doing this (also, from power8 design):
"One reason for the remaining gap is that some of the circuit design quality criteria depend on the broader implementation context, understood by experienced custom designers through years of prior experience, but very difficult to expose to the synthesis algorithms.
In such cases, the Hardware Description Language (VHDL) code was customized to resemble the circuit topology determined by the custom designer, thereby forcing the synthesis tools to use the suggested topology."

TSMC had synthesis working well, hence why Bobcat got it first. Example of original synthesized Bulldozer derived from architect/engineers:
bttobd45.png["Load/store unit provides an interface between execution core(s) and data cache."] => Effective L0 Data Buffer
No one really noticed Bobcat is basically MCMT without the second cluster and multithreading.

Int EXC#0 = 2 ALUs + sPRF0
Int EXC#1 = 2 ALUs + sPRF1
Mem EXC#0 = 3 AGUs
FPU EXC#0 = 4 FPUs + vPRF

This but more spaghetti-esque on die: Bobcat-like (bus unit placement is centered for Higher Performance (equal wire distance to inst Cache and data Cache))
Int Renamer(under retire)​
Unified Retire​
FP renamer (left of bus and closer to fEXC)​
iEXC#0 PRF -> LSU​
mEXC#0 2x Load + 1x Store (min)​
Bus unit​
iEXC#1 PRF -> LSU​
Load/Store​
fEXC#0 - 1st FMA + VPRF​
L1 SRAM​
L1D interface​
fEXC#0 - 2nd FMA + VPRF​

SMT shares a monolithic integer execution core, CMT has two clusters of integer execution cores. Which prevents TLP to ILP being lost, which was examined to be Strong thread(main thread) + weak thread(slave thread) in Netburst && Nehalem. The main advantage that CMT has over SMT is the second integer core in single threaded can run-ahead in Retire/Rename, having its own branch unit. This also scales with TLP since both threads can have branch priority, thread0 to BR0 in first integer execution core, and thread1 to BR1 in second integer execution core.
60% Integer : 20% Memory : 20% Floating Point means the most critical resource for IPC is not sharing Integer resources in strong multithreaded workloads. The above should also be occurring in Zen3/Zen4's FPU.

For a sense of scale:
differencesofbd.jpeg
Only for example purposes, I highly recommend looking at annotated versions of Bobcat/Jaguar. Where the original Bulldozer(Intel-side)/Bobcat(VIA-side) was more or less orientated towards future 64-bit versions of Pentium M from Intel and Eden from VIA;
Pentium M (2003) -> Enhanced Pentium M(2004) -> Core(2006)
Eden-N (2003) -> Eden-E (2005)
Why don't you quit while you're behind?
Why don't you stop trolling?
1. You haven't refuted anything... no transcripts, no counter-slides, nothing.
2. You constantly cause the thread to derail with "No U" cards with no backup.

I already provided burden of proof across several posts. Of which, you have yet to refute any of them with your burden of proof counter-claim. Logically, your arguments have no factual weight whatsoever. My posts thus in regards is for other readers thus proving that I am 100% correct, while you are 100% incorrect.

Prior posts:
Andy Glew/Mitch Alsup/David Kanter: Bulldozer is K10
Dirk Meyer/Phil Hester/Mike Clark = Greyhound is K9

---- Just dates to take note of eventually:
FX-8350 10th Year 1st Retail Anniversary = October 2022
FX-9590 10th Year 2nd Retail($230 price) Anniversary = September 2024
 
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NTMBK

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Nov 14, 2011
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I almost got an 8350 back in the day. I had a quad core Thuban on an old AM2+ motherboard, figured I could get a nice AM3 board, unlock the extra two cores, and then upgrade to Bulldozer further down the line.

I came to my senses, and realised that I was going to spend a lot of money for a pretty meagre upgrade- saved my money and bought a Skylake system instead a few years later.
 
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NostaSeronx

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K8-SSE2(don't remember codename or TDP, but ya big oof) =< Cedar Mill(65W) => Phenom X4 9950 - Agena(140W/B3) => Phenom II X4 965 - Deneb(125W/C3) => FX-8320 - Vishera(125W)

If I had any sense, I wouldn't have bought the highest TDP variants.
Big power supply
Big heatsink (of questionable compatibility)
Yeah, going to overclock it! ... Proceeds to never get a stable OC.

I would have gladly ditched Phenom X4 9950 and Phenom II X4 965 for a single purchase of Phenom II X4 945(95W). Phenom 9950 B3 purchase was within nine months of Phenom II 945/965 C3 launch.

As well as swapping the FX-8320 for an Opteron 3380 - Delhi(65W). Where I would have opted for 970, cheap heatsink, ~400W PSU, for a lot less spent.

Opteron 3300(octo-core) ~ 65W is baseline
FX-83xx ~ 125W is ~1.2x AVG uplift
FX-9xxx ~ 220W is another ~1.2x AVG uplift
The uplift other than in benchmarks is highly unnoticeable in average consumption; gaming was fully functional(vsync-on) all the way down to fixed 2 GHz/undervolt.
 
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Hotrod2go

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Still rocking a FX-8350 on a Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board with one of several systems I have here, under a tower cooler, good enough in this day & age for light desktop usage, at least paired with 2000MHz CL9 DDR3!
AMD "fine wine" still works! :D
 

DAPUNISHER

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Still rocking a FX-8350 on a Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board with one of several systems I have here, under a tower cooler, good enough in this day & age for light desktop usage, at least paired with 2000MHz CL9 DDR3!
AMD "fine wine" still works! :D
That's a nice board.

I put a Noctua D15 on the FX8350 to make certain temps were not holding it back. However, the northbridge on this Gigabyte gets really hot. May have to actively cool it.
 

DrMrLordX

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the northbridge on this Gigabyte gets really hot. May have to actively cool it.
[pedantic]
The NB is on the CPU!
[/pedantic]

Seriously though, it's got a chipset, I know, and it might be running kind of hot. But it isn't actually the northbridge.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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[pedantic]
The NB is on the CPU!
[/pedantic]

Seriously though, it's got a chipset, I know, and it might be running kind of hot. But it isn't actually the northbridge.
To quote Bilbo Baggins and his dejected tone "Oh, you're probably right."

I am not ready to move on from the traditional nomenclature of northbridge and southbridge on those old boards though.:cool: Some of the functionality became SOC CPU stuff, and I think the memory controller is the real sticking point for you guys? Anyways, they were still dubbing it the old school way, in the diagrams Anand himself posted.



I thought about amending my ways, but after checking that old article?

 

Asterox

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Still rocking a FX-8350 on a Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board with one of several systems I have here, under a tower cooler, good enough in this day & age for light desktop usage, at least paired with 2000MHz CL9 DDR3!
AMD "fine wine" still works! :D
Good, but you now that love is blind.But ok, if you enjoy no problem. :grinning:

 

DrMrLordX

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Apr 27, 2000
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To quote Bilbo Baggins and his dejected tone "Oh, you're probably right."

I am not ready to move on from the traditional nomenclature of northbridge and southbridge on those old boards though.:cool:
The critical elements of the old-school Northbridge got moved onto the CPU as far back as K10/Deneb. Specifically, the CPU/NB:


That contained the controller for L3 cache memory controller. I think the bclk/fsb was also moved away from the chipset and to the CPU in that generation but I don't honestly remember (I know it was external for x2). The 990FX was a 2-part chipset and part of it was sometimes called the Northbridge, but it was really just a glorified PCI-e controller. What else were they going to call it?

In any case, those of us who were tuning K10 (and later PD/BD, Kaveri, and even Carrizo) had to meddle with on-chip NB multiplers and voltages, which is why a lot of us got used to the Northbridge actually being on the CPU.
 

AtenRa

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[pedantic]
The NB is on the CPU!
[/pedantic]

Seriously though, it's got a chipset, I know, and it might be running kind of hot. But it isn't actually the northbridge.
The CPU-NB is the IMC voltage control on the CPU die , it has nothing to do with the 990FX Northbridge (chipset) on the motherboard.
 

DrMrLordX

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Apr 27, 2000
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The CPU-NB is the IMC voltage control on the CPU die , it has nothing to do with the 990FX Northbridge (chipset) on the motherboard.
To repeat:

"In any case, those of us who were tuning K10 (and later PD/BD, Kaveri, and even Carrizo) had to meddle with on-chip NB multiplers and voltages, which is why a lot of us got used to the Northbridge actually being on the CPU. "
 

NostaSeronx

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I repeat stop repeating misinformation/disinformation:
"It sounds like neither K8L nor K10 are correct when referring to AMD's next-generation architecture, so we'll have to continue to use Agena/Kuma/Barcelona in their place."
=> just a note, none of the representatives subsequent interviews did they ever refer to it as K10, so it was made up from the start by Theo/Charlie/etc.

I have repeatedly set the record straight. That the name is Greyhound, GH for short, but if you need to op for a Kx it is K9 as indicated by Mike Clark of AMD.
"From there, I did the Greyhound (K9) core, I was the lead architect there, which was a derivative of K8."

Agena = Greyhound
Deneb = Greyhound+
Thuban = Greyhound+
Llano = Husky
Zambezi = Bulldozer
Vishera = Piledriver
Trinity = Piledriver
Kaveri = Steamroller
Carrizo = Excavator

AMD has never once officially supported the claim or called it K10, it was always K9.

K7 -> K8 Jim Keller -> K9 64-bit Fred Weber, didn't happen.
So,
K8 Fred Weber -> K9 Mitch Alsup -> K10 Greyhound, definitely didn't happen.

The K10 architectural projects always had the Bulldozer name after they dropped Kx. Before Barcelona ever launched it was set in stone whatever K10 project came out, it would be Bulldozer circa 2005. As that is when they switched away from K-naming to architectural names.

Barcelona is a 2006 tapeout, thus was always called Greyhound, but the project was early enough to be in the works under K8H first, then K9 later, then finally Greyhound.

K10 = Bulldozer
and it doesn't matter if it was the canned Cluster-based Multithreading architecture or the one we got which was the Chip-level Multithreading architecture.

Short guide:
K7(officially Argon) => 32-bit
K8(officially Hammer) => 64-bit
K9(officially Greyhound) => 1x128-bit * MUL+ADD
K10(officially Bulldozer) => 2x128-bit * FMA

If there was a K10 core derived from K7, it would have two FMA units. As that was the FPU M-SPACE architectural choice for K10 architectures.

As far as I can tell, we don't call Westmere: Nehalem-C or Sandy Bridge: Gesher. So, why are people still bothering with the Kx when those were dropped.

"The critical elements of the old-school Northbridge got moved onto the CPU as far back as GH+/Deneb. Specifically, the CPU/NB:"
"In any case, those of us who were tuning GH+ (and later BD/PD, SR, and even XV) had to meddle with on-chip NB multiplers and voltages, which is why a lot of us got used to the Northbridge actually being on the CPU. "

Is thus, the correct method.
 
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Ranulf

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Good, but you now that love is blind.But ok, if you enjoy no problem. :grinning:

There were a couple of outliers (way lower fps or low 1%) there like NFS but the FX held up fairly well about 10fps behind the r5 1400. The Farcry5 numbers matched my own experiences in that game with the 8350 and rx 480 8gb. The 1400's msrp was $169 (april 2017) according to cpu world. I paid $170 for my 8350 in spring 2014.
 

Hotrod2go

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Nov 17, 2021
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That's a nice board.

I put a Noctua D15 on the FX8350 to make certain temps were not holding it back. However, the northbridge on this Gigabyte gets really hot. May have to actively cool it.
I got my 2013 Thermaltake NiC F4 on mine with 2 x 120mm fans in push \pull config. System is so quiet, I can hardly tell its on. Of course running 2000MHz ram means the CPU is slightly OC.

Good, but you now that love is blind.But ok, if you enjoy no problem. :grinning:

Zen is totally useless, not going to fit an AM4 processor on to a AM3+ socket board to state the bleeding obvious. Besides, that upgrade would involve considerable expense & for a light usage system, waste of money in my opinion. Why waste perfectly good working hardware for practically zero perceptible gain? If the end user is mostly just surfing the net especially.
 

Thunder 57

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I repeat stop repeating misinformation/disinformation:
"It sounds like neither K8L nor K10 are correct when referring to AMD's next-generation architecture, so we'll have to continue to use Agena/Kuma/Barcelona in their place."
=> just a note, none of the representatives subsequent interviews did they ever refer to it as K10, so it was made up from the start by Theo/Charlie/etc.

I have repeatedly set the record straight. That the name is Greyhound, GH for short, but if you need to op for a Kx it is K9 as indicated by Mike Clark of AMD.
"From there, I did the Greyhound (K9) core, I was the lead architect there, which was a derivative of K8."

Agena = Greyhound
Deneb = Greyhound+
Thuban = Greyhound+
Llano = Husky
Zambezi = Bulldozer
Vishera = Piledriver
Trinity = Piledriver
Kaveri = Steamroller
Carrizo = Excavator

AMD has never once officially supported the claim or called it K10, it was always K9.

K7 -> K8 Jim Keller -> K9 64-bit Fred Weber, didn't happen.
So,
K8 Fred Weber -> K9 Mitch Alsup -> K10 Greyhound, definitely didn't happen.

The K10 architectural projects always had the Bulldozer name after they dropped Kx. Before Barcelona ever launched it was set in stone whatever K10 project came out, it would be Bulldozer circa 2005. As that is when they switched away from K-naming to architectural names.

Barcelona is a 2006 tapeout, thus was always called Greyhound, but the project was early enough to be in the works under K8H first, then K9 later, then finally Greyhound.

K10 = Bulldozer
and it doesn't matter if it was the canned Cluster-based Multithreading architecture or the one we got which was the Chip-level Multithreading architecture.

Short guide:
K7(officially Argon) => 32-bit
K8(officially Hammer) => 64-bit
K9(officially Greyhound) => 1x128-bit * MUL+ADD
K10(officially Bulldozer) => 2x128-bit * FMA

If there was a K10 core derived from K7, it would have two FMA units. As that was the FPU M-SPACE architectural choice for K10 architectures.

As far as I can tell, we don't call Westmere: Nehalem-C or Sandy Bridge: Gesher. So, why are people still bothering with the Kx when those were dropped.

"The critical elements of the old-school Northbridge got moved onto the CPU as far back as GH+/Deneb. Specifically, the CPU/NB:"
"In any case, those of us who were tuning GH+ (and later BD/PD, SR, and even XV) had to meddle with on-chip NB multiplers and voltages, which is why a lot of us got used to the Northbridge actually being on the CPU. "

Is thus, the correct method.
So where does Tunnelborer fit in? It doesn't, because your full of crap. Gesher was renamed because it is a political party.
 

NostaSeronx

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Sep 18, 2011
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So where does Tunnelborer fit in?
Simple: Tunnelborer is the 3rd variant of Bulldozer.

Complex:{{1st variation: Bulldozer -> Piledriver
2nd variation: Steamroller -> Excavator
3rd variation: Tunnelborer <== 14nm Generation Bulldozer
(Contrary to the current assumption it was not Bulldozer -> Steamroller -> Bulldozer2)

It was a 3rd iteration of Bulldozer for high performance developed between 2012 to 2014. It fell off the roadmap because it was basically building up to compete against the then Zen.
tbr.jpeg32nm -> 28nm -> 14nm

Excavator 20nm variant fell off as well, at this time rampant node switching by AMD died. Which lead to AMD cancelling off Jaguar-successors. Since, then AMD didn't have a specific low-cost part. Thus, the scraps of Tunnelborer was shifted towards ultra-low-power(2016) and exclusivity to GlobalFoundries(2018).

Main reason we haven't seen anything is GlobalFoundries has yet to solidify the research into something producible. AMD is specifically waiting for next-generation PMOS straining and first-generation NMOS strained Si. Plus, all the other research facets to improve Frequency at reduced Vdd on SOI. These features are specifically tweakable for RF variants, which is why it is needed across the board for the specific FDSOI node yet to be released. Origin wafers for 12nm RFSOI are the same as 12nm FDSOI because of strain techniques shared flow for RF and FD at GlobalFoundries. SOITEC's RFSOI/FDSOI wafers for 12nm that go to GlobalFoundries do not compete with each other.

2012-2014 => Tunnelborer - High Performance GloFo. :: 1st Bulldozer and some 2nd Steamroller team members. :: M.B. jumped ship, with chip-level multithreading being dropped, and most of were shifted to Zen. Product went into limbo.
2015 => Tunnelborer is shuffled to Low-power and renamed. :: Product was reiterated and shifted to Cat core architects
2016-2018 => The renamed core shuffled even further to Ultra-low-power. :: More aggressive re-target, returned Bobcat/Jaguar/Vulcan(Broadcom) architects<<from Broadcom CPU layoff>> and more ODC architects
goes dark
2021-Present => Core, GPU, and SoC IP is finished but the node isn't finished. :: Additional Mongoose(Samsung) <<timetable is M1-M4>> architects from SARC layoff.

There is also the more recent annoucement of the reiteration of the FDSOI roadmap:
With tailored nodes being announced here:

It is very likely FX will be used for TWKR/BE variants, since FDSOI has a scalable Vdd on LVT transistors. So, overclocking can be done up to >1.5V or undervolting down to <0.5V can be done.

Athlon/Ryzen/Epyc => stock voltage is in overdrive between 0.9V to 1.3V
Sempron/FX/Opteron => stock voltage is in underdrive/base between 0.4V to 0.8V

Opteron 3380/3365 1.0v stock voltage at guaranteed base frequency => New Opteron will most likely have 0.55v stock voltage at guaranteed base frequency
FX-83xx 1.3v stock voltage with base => New FX would be 0.75v stock with base

Opteron is locked in underdrive/PurePower and base/PrecisionBoost.
FX is unlocked with PrecisionBoost and overclocking potential tapping overdrive and can be tweaked for fixed underdrive via underclock/undervolting.

IEEE => UTBB FDSOI scaling enablers for the 10nm node (III. 10FDSOI SCALING ENABLERS)
12FDX-2019 only did these:
- Dual STI architecture as a circuit level booster
- AC performance boost by capacitance reduction
12FDX-2023 included these:
- Lg and BOX scaling (10nm Node buried oxide(15nm) is present in 22FDX+/12FDX-2019)
- Strain to boost DC FET performance

The delay is the gate length shrink and removal of added costs of sSOI NFET and SiGeOI PFET on the same wafer.

28SHP -> 22FDX-2017&12FDX-2019
0.9V -> 0.6V

Similar design or complexity => 1.8 GHz @ 0.9V on 28nm moves to => 1.8 GHz @ 0.6V on 22nm/12nm. With the changes of 12FDX for 2023 mass-prod, 1.8 GHz @ 0.6V on 12nm-2019 moves to => 2.7 GHz @ 0.6V on 12nm-2023.
First step = -70% power
Second step = +50% frequency

Should be noted the shift from HP to ULP means a huge reduction in complexity and no longer is a similar enough design. The original design was targeted at 0.9V to 1.3V like Zen, the switch to ULP meant the new target is 0.4V(0.35V) to 0.8V(0.75V). The core should have tuned ultra-low-voltage SRAMs, ROMs, PRFs, CAMs and a DTCO standard cell library for ultra-low-voltage logic. Leak across set Vdd_min to Vdd_max should be near-linear from this compared to exponential non-ULV memories.

BD -> SR -> TB => Higher Performance, which got obsoleted by Zen.
TB design re-iteration (Fam 15h = Chip-level Multithreading -> Fam Tunnelborer = Cluster-based Multithreading) -> New Ultra-low-power(Ultra-low-voltage) => Lower power, which is the successor to Dresden-originated GlobalFoundries-centric low cost platforms;
Vishera-Delhi 2018/2019 => retail up to ~155 USD (315 mm2 die)
Bristol(A12-9800, etc)/Carrizo(A8-7680, etc) 2018 => retail up to ~99 USD (245 mm2 die)
Stoney 2017/2019 => retail up to ~30 USD (125 mm2 die)

2023/2024/2025 platforms should succeed the above platforms with a new core at GloFo. The names reserved since 2016; FX <-> Opteron <-> Sempron.
May 2015 = "Zen" AMD FX CPU
February 2016 = "Zen" Opteron SoCs
Two factors lead to them switching to Ryzen and Epyc:
1. FX/Opteron were tainted with low-cost.
2. A new core was planned to fit into that low-cost, all the way back then.
The main reason the lowest bin variants of Ryzen3/Athlon parts aren't called Sempron is the same thing. Sempron is reserved for the other core on the other track.

}}tldr of complex; Bulldozer (Desktop, HP) -> Piledriver (Desktop, HP) -> Steamroller (Mobile, HP) -> Excavator (Mobile, HP) -> Tunnelborer (Mobile-Desktop, HP, 14FF/14HP-2012 to FDSOI-2013~2014) -> New project name, similar core (Mobile, LP, FDSOI) -> Same new project name, modifiedish core (Embedded-Desktop, ULP, FDSOI)
2012~2016 leaks:
Tunnelborer: 14nm
Harvester(Forestry Excavator): Excavator on GF28FD+, rather than GF28A+ (Bristol/Stoney)
Crane(Excavator Crane): Husky-like iteration of Excavator on GF14FD+ or GF14XM, rather than GF20AN(GF20SHP/LPM).
The two above was supposed to lead towards to the new CPU core. Underlying issue occurring was SOITEC went into debt and revenue was a loss, no money to facility the GF FD ramp at the time. Hence, GF delayed for their own versions of FDSOI(derived from Albany-IBM), rather than using the licensed STM nodes. There was also issues with GlobalFoundries failing to provide shrinks themselves at this time as well. This was exacerbated by the decision of funding Malta only, which forced 2012 to 2021 to have net negative income.
badroad.png
Note the inversion, low-power became high performance and high performance became low-power.
Bare minimum given Cat core architects=> 2 Integer Clusters, 1 Memory Cluster, 2 Floating Point Clusters :: ILP mode: one thread across all, TLP mode: two threads across all
HP/LP (Zen) = FinFET track, and ULP (Unnamed) = FDSOI track

Example of killed but released in AMD specification: Family 15h 20h-2Fh => 10-core die "Komodo" FX with "Corona" 1090FX
Family 15h 40h-4Fh => 16-core die no die name or platform name officially announced. <-- Excavator shrinks are important for this one.


Additional 1:
So far, we have been waiting for GlobalFoundries to finish with cost-cutting efforts to facilitate the below:
Low-cost FX succeeding FX-xxxx series
Low-cost Opteron succeeding 3xxx and Xxxxx series
Low-cost Sempron succeeding A-series/E-series and consumer-orientated 3xxx(Low TDP not under Opteron)
Low-cost G-series succeeding G-series.
small.png

Prior low-income-orientated processors past Geode -> Chartered or AMD Foundry(early Sempron) =both are now> GlobalFoundries(later Sempron). New FX 2020s should be nice to compare to old FX 2010s(production dropped in 2020).

Also, a tidbit AMD SPICE'd (with GlobalFoundries' help via PPA/DTCO-engineers) something on 22nm and 12nm FDSOI in 2018. This is followed up with the January 2021-12FDX ramp up for AMD's lines for Dresden and Malta. Expanded breadth of collaboration covers 12FDX of which the new high-volume "Personal Computing" scope covers FX(unlocked) and Sempron(locked).

Additional 2:
Q3'2020 => $187 million (Ryzen salvaged 1200/1300X/2300X, RX 590/RX 640 still being run for low-price point at Asia)
Q1'2022 => $41 million (AMD following two-years after GF32/GF28 halt, significantly reduced orders of Summit/Pinnacle/Raven/Picasso/Raven2/Dali/Pollock/GFXs, focusing small supply for cIODs)
GlobalFoundries drought of PC should continue through Q2 2023, but will be solved in Q3 2023-onwards with a new FX(+Sempron) lineup replacing more expensive prior solutions.

The safest assumption in replacement of FX-8xxx/FX-6xxx/FX-4xxx/FX-9xxx CPU is that it will be dirt cheap(For AMD and end users) and not be ~315 mm2(sub-155 USD target) or ~210(sub-120 USD target) mm2. Any other details is fuzzed. As they switched away from high-performance(leaky exponential 0.9-1.3v) to ultra-low-power(linear leak increase between 0.35V to 1.5v). Which could have any amount of changes of execution units, OoO width, ULV branch predictor, FPU design, etc.

TSMC 3nm Improved High Mobilty & TSMC 2nm GAA => 2x8-pin equivalent Ultra-OC: ~$500+ CPU and ~$500+ mobo.
GlobalFoundries 12FDX => 1x8-pin (FX variant)[ignoring Sempron 1x4-pin/Mobo power variants]: ~$65+ CPU and $100+ mobo. Allows products on 12FDX to prepare end-users for products on 3nm/2nm without high-cost of failure.

EPYC(Consumer variant: Threadripper)/Ryzen/Athlon => Shrinking marketshare of total processors, increasing income and power availability(higher ASP+PPT). (staple markets: China, Japan, Korea, United States, Germany, etc) => Sell less chips at higher prices
Opteron(Consumer variant: DuoFX/QuadFX)/FX/Sempron => Growing marketshare of total processors, decreasing income and power availability(lower ASP+PPT). (staple markets: South America, Africa, Rural United States, Rural India, etc) => Sell more chips at lower prices
incomedistrbution.jpg
New Duo/Quad FX from what I can gather is a more active-cooled solution of this 4P Opteron X2150(with a non-HP reference cartridge/slot/ATX board), which falls under the compression of size of Datacenter which is Opteron however consumer-orientated Workstation-variant falls under FX:
4popt.jpg
Everything is covered in the Pervasive Computing Plan between AMD/GlobalFoundries. Again won't be talked about till AFTER the products launched:
Pervasive Datacenter is the above(<Scale-out Small Chip> Opteron).
Pervasive Personal Computing covers Gaming(FX and covers Low-cost WS, DT, Mobility), Commerical(Opteron instead of Sempron Pro), Non-gaming(Sempron)
Pervasive Embedded is the G-series.
Very cheesy: "At GF, we innovate and partner with our customers to deliver process technology solutions for all humanity"

FX-83xx/FX-9xxx to [FX-85xx or FX-18xx or FX-x8x < FX-(generation of ZN)(clusters)(clock bin)] => significant reduction in costs and power consumption.

Timeline:
  • AMD 2012 - Tunnelborer(3rd form of Bulldozer); Excavator 28BLK -> Excavator(renamed) 20BLK -> Excavator(renamed) 14FF -> Tunnelborer 14FF
  • GlobalFoundries 2012 - GF licenses 28FD/14FD from STMicroelectronics.
  • AMD 2013 - Shifted to FDSOI track: Excavator 28BLK -> Excavator(renamed) 28FDS -> Excavator(renamed) 14FDS -> Tunnelborer 14FDS
  • GlobalFoundries 2014 - Announces collab Samsung 14nm and gets IBM property.
  • GlobalFoundries starts loss spree with SOITEC leading to death of standard FDSOI to give time for SOITEC|GF
  • GlobalFoundries 2015 - Announces shift from STMicroelectronics FDSOI to internal from IBM: "Advanced FDSOI"
  • AMD 2015 - Cancels post-Jaguar(20BLK/14FF designs went TSMC first, then GloFo) and Excavator shrinks(FD-work as well), shifts TB architecture to new name LP design point for "Advanced FDSOI"
  • GlobalFoundries 2016- "Advanced FDSOI" has thus been named "22FDX" and given a successor node "12FDX"
  • AMD 2016 - new name LP architecture is shifted further down to ULP design point for "22FDX/12FDX"
  • SOITEC 2017 - Turn around into profitability after PV Solar Cell disaster(also, hit SunEdison)
  • GlobalFoundries 2018 - Stops funneling CapEx to FinFETs(losing money) from other projects(gaining money).
  • AMD 2018 - One foot in, initial ULP IP layout/floorplan, exclusive to GloFo because of DTCO/PPA-enhancements.
  • CEA-Leti 2016-2020: Strained NFET is hype! Strained 12FD wafers hype! 2020: Cheaper steps for sSOI NFET + SiGeOI PFET found!
  • GlobalFoundries 2019 - 3D Logic-on-Logic development taped out
  • GlobalFoundries 2020 - 12FDX is officially delayed and back in the oven at 60% done.
  • GlobalFoundries 2021 - 3D Logic-on-Logic production-ready and 12FDX integration begins at both Dresden and Malta.
  • AMD 2021 - Officially in 12FDX sphere with expanded(switching tracks) collaboration for 2023-2025.
  • Not yet, GlobalFoundries 2022 - Starts 12FDX ramp for 2023+. Backwards compatible to initial 12FDX PDK, RTOs can go into production immediately.
Addition #3:
Reasons for Opteron/FX/Sempron:
- AMD is losing the software support to cheaper solutions by competitors: Intel-based, ARM-based, RISCV-based
- AMD is expected to lose hardware volume to cheaper solutions: higher Server/PC share is ARM-based. x86 Server/PC is -7% - YoY loss, AMD is gaining a shrinking share of x86, while ARM is growing faster. ARM is growing fast because it has a low-cost foundation of software support, that can be scaled up towards compute hardware.

Taking the data, the answer is to clearly release a cheaper solution. That is viable to low-income end users and resistant against downturns in economy/purchase habits(5~8 year upgrade cycle). Good enough at low price is the king, higher performance at higher price is the fool. The prior statement is for generalized software support, cheaper = more, expensive = less.

Strict goldilocks zone: $99 to $199 USD for system(SoC/RAM/Board) for standard {FX/Sempron market} end-user. Costs for small chip scale out for servers on older nodes haven't been an issue.
With the buffer zone going up to $299 USD, going further than that is hobby-enthusiast territory.

Primary targets:
FX => ARM-based ATX w/ wider overclocking support via increased power over SBC OC. Bigger ATX versions generally also have higher stock clocks.
Opteron => Cheaper ARM-based small chip scale-out processors. Newer ARM processors being pulled to older nodes.
Sempron => Generic Mini-Desktop/Laptop/etc mainly aimed at ~5W. Cheaper solution of ARM on older node.
G-series => Aggressively lower TDP variants of above.

Stuff that AMD can't service because of "Zen" track chasing ever expensive nodes. However, there was an ever-present window at GlobalFoundries and the window is definitely present now. With GF's operations going from first-world/high-cost markets(chasing smaller transistors) to global-world/low-cost markets(chasing larger markets => design smarter(3D-stacking, etc) not smaller(expensive scaling)).

Shortened:

- Tunnelborer started in 2012 and continued on...
- Switching to low-power occurred in 2015 and the further switch to ultra-low-power(ultra-low-voltage) occurred in 2016. With High-Perf to Ultra-low-power(ultra-low-voltage) changing general architecture details and even changing the code used for it.
- Of course, through the switching largely fell onto GlobalFoundries reduced-cost nodes. Which is followed up by the switch from revenue-orientated to volume-orientated selling of wafers. (AMD is required to buy a higher volume of wafers not a lower volume of higher priced wafers)
- With the product stack sweeping and collecting old low-cost versions of Datacenter, Personal Computing(Gaming/Commercial/Non-gaming), and Embedded.
- Which was AMD's most successful stack, ignoring that they were quickly hopping from expensive shrink to ever more expensive shrink.
- With that FX is returning as the higher TDP variant and pulling out 2P/4P variants as well for workstation (low-cost consumer scale-out).

Context to FX-8350:

- AMD has ended manufacturing capability of 32nm
- Selling a 315 mm2 with outdated power management and higher TDP at lower cost, has no innovation => no hype train
- 90/65 -nm FX -> 32 -nm FX -> 12 -nm FX
- Where the 12nm FX achieves a much smaller die(lower than 315 mm2, lower than 210 mm2, without cost-additives(FinFET/2.5D packaging(bad for low-cost)), uses lower TDP(low opt: 100W processors(module power consumption) -> 25W processors, same clocks => high opt: 100W -> 10W processors, higher clocks)

Three core is back:
cores.png
TSMC Cores:
Performance => Zen-line with full FPU(4-pipe/6-pipe) (similar ex: Greyhound(Fam 10h) with 128-bit FPU)
Value => Zen-line with cut FPU(2-pipe/3-pipe) (simple way to cut leakage/power consumption) (similar ex: Lion(Fam 11h) with 64-bit FPU)
GlobalFoundries Cores:
Pervasive => Successor to Bulldozer, ULP core. ==> With the ULP core including the fix for "There are no separate single-threaded or multithreaded operation modes."

Safe to assume:
Manchester (90nm SOI)_89W/Dual-core/2 GHz -> Ontario (40nm Bulk)_18W/Dual-core/1.6 GHz
Zambezi/Vishera (32nm SOI)_125W/Quad-processor(Defined as Octo-core)/3.5 GHz -> FX ULP SoC(12nm FDSOI)_25W/Quad-processor(Defined as Octo-cluster)/3.5 GHz
The reason for clocks remaining the same is from same node lineage(32SHP => GF -> 12FDX => GF), where Bobcat went to a node lineage that supported less frequency(higher leakage at higher Vdd). Other reason for same frequency is the shift away from standard memories:
memories.png

The biggest threat is Cortex-A710 on TSMC 22nm and TSMC 12nm. More scalable than any 7-class core before it, meaning any products that have a desktop variant will be overclockable. However, the nodes to worry about are UMC 22nm/12nm, [SMIC 22nm/12nm, and HLMC 22nm/12nm]-same research and development group.

- AMD leaves the low-cost room. (successful >5 mil processor per quarter sells)
- ARM-developers peeks in... It's free real estate. (extra successful >10 mil processor per quarter sells)

Thus, continued sales of the current FX-8000s is unreliable(hence, the halt of GF32/GF28) as the main competitor is smaller and cheaper. Zen is not cost-effective towards older backported ARM chips, so support for AMD chips dwindle. Emulation/translation x86 to ARM increases, which can be scaled up to newer >64-core Neoverses, thus removing one the major reasons to get EPYC over a Neoverse-variant. ARM is better for its cheaper cost, Zen is in a downward spiral of demand/reduced accessible market, which is covered up by higher average selling prices and higher performance.

$8000-$9000(peak AMD-64C CPU-only) => $6000(peak ARM-128C CPU-only)/$4000(peak ARM-80C CPU-only)
>$4500(AMD-32C workstation (full system)) => <$3600(ARM-32C workstation (full system))
$100-$600 (ARM-4C~16C Entry-workstation(OC-supported)/Entry-server/Entry-desktop(OC-supported) system cost) => *crickets*
//More focused on the higher sales of the $100-$300 range. -- Zen is low supply at TSMC for low-cost, while GlobalFoundries is sitting at high supply while not currently utilized.

FX Quad-processor $189-$155 (full die) -> Ryzen 1st through 3rd Quad-processor $129-$99 (Salvaged die) -> Ryzen/Athlon 4th Quad-processor ~$150 (Salvaged die)
Market share indicators place FX(FX-8350) as more successful than 1st through 3rd generation 1CCX disabled. In this portion, if these did become successful they are undercutting $300-$500 Average Selling Price.

Current market: $3000 (32SOI) -> $2000 (28BLK) -> $2000 (22FDX) -> $3000 (12FDX) versus 14FF/12FF $4000 to $5500.
32nm PDSOI had potential for a larger volume but most of SOI fabs were swapping to FDSOI wafers. (PDSOI decreased in availability)

Trusty calculator:
$3000 / 132(Good dies) => $22.73 ratio to $155 + Hypothetical Orig ratio to current price of wafer $245(FX-8150)
$4000(GF-current) / 264(good+defective dies) => $15.15 ratio to $130 and $100
$9000(TSMC-current) / 359(good+defective) => $25.07 ratio to $150
$3000 / 498(Good dies: Monolithic, half-die size of Summit/Pinnacle) => $6.024
Most recent FX SEP = $41.1
Original FX SEP + current wafers: $64.9
Ryzen high-end Quad-processor + current wafers: $51.7 :: MP cuts into ASP for this and the two below.
Ryzen low-end Quad-processor + current wafers: $39.8
7nm Ryzen/Athlon + current wafers: $36.04

Highest margin appears to be the ratio'd of original FX price with modern wafer prices.

With ELTS of AM4 (higher position higher price):
ELTS Zen3 (6nm for eventually 10nm DUV pricing?):
- 16-processor
- 12-processor
- 8-processor
- 6-processor
ELTS Zen2 (6nm for eventually 10nm DUV pricing?):
- 6-processor (Renoir)
- 4-processor (Renoir)
New core on ELTS-AM4
- 4-processor (New FX/Sempron)
- 3-processor (New FX/Sempron)
- 2-processor (New FX/Sempron)

AM4 LTS(support of 5 years) => 2017 to 2022
AM4 ELTS(support of 10 years) => 2017 to 2027

AM3+ FX:
New platform (lower availability)
New process generation (lower production)
Higher process cost than before (lower margin)
High initial TDP: 140W/125W/95W and general focus on higher costing motherboards.

AM4 FX under Extended portion of Long-Term-Support:
Mature platform (higher availability)
Existing process generation (higher production)
Lower process cost than before (higher margin)
Low initial TDP: 25W+10n[N=0-2] with additional PPT up to 95W (AM4 Ultra-Budget = ~$50 USD) or higher 142W (AM4 Budget: ~$75)

Market share :: Power consumption globally
Low-cost: ~50% :: ~60%
Mainstream-cost: ~35% :: ~15%
Enthusiast-cost: ~15% :: ~25%
Reducing low-costs global power consumption is why TDP is low. 700W CPU + 800W GPU, better hope the plebeians aren't grasping all the power.

General idea (CPU[2023] or CPU+GPU(w/ 3D memory => extends to AIB form cost-savings)[2024])
exofam4elts.png
FDSOI CPU or GPU and I/O can be on the same die, but CPU and GPU can not. BEOL-optimization for best PPAC is specific to CPU-centric or GPU-centric. With this CPU+I/O can be on a single die. Rather than an I/O die with a hub config, it would be a GMI Switch Die. (GMI<->CPU links, plus snoop filter cache, etc. Virtually one-NUMA, physically many-NUMA.)
FDSOI: Same FEOL for Logic and I/O => BEOL has specific optimizations between CPU and GPU => CPU+I/O and GPU+I/O can be done with two dies with max figures of merit.
FinFETs: Seperate FEOL for Logic and I/O => BEOL is same => CPU+I/O and GPU+I/O needs four dies to max FoM.

ELTS Legacy Platforms:
AMD FX/Sempron AM4 - scale up -> AMD Ryzen/Athlon AM4
scale-out
AMD Opteron SP3 - scale up -> AMD EPYC SP3 > however I don't think SP3 was extended life:
amdemb.png
Zen stops production sometime in 2023 and Zen2(14nm IOD) stops production sometime in 2024.
 
Last edited:

Asterox

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May 15, 2012
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Zen is totally useless, not going to fit an AM4 processor on to a AM3+ socket board to state the bleeding obvious. Besides, that upgrade would involve considerable expense & for a light usage system, waste of money in my opinion. Why waste perfectly good working hardware for practically zero perceptible gain? If the end user is mostly just surfing the net especially.
We all now that, but this was just short gaming comparison."It shows you, how good or bad is FX-8350/125W vs the worst 65W CPU model from the first Ryzen 1000 series".

A lot of people claimed that the R5 1400 isn't exactly a very good CPU. :grinning:

 
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DAPUNISHER

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We all now that, but this was just short gaming comparison."It shows you, how good or bad is FX-8350/125W vs the worst 65W CPU model from the first Ryzen 1000 series".

A lot of people claimed that the R5 1400 isn't exactly a very good CPU. :grinning:

What are you even on about? First, comparing it to an 8 thread Ryzen is a well DUH! Second, the 1400 wasn't the "worst" model, there was a 1200 and 1300x that were 4/4. And seeing how my FX 8350 handles Witcher 3 better than my 3200G, it would be better than both of those 1st gen Ryzen.
 

Hotrod2go

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Nov 17, 2021
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What are you even on about? First, comparing it to an 8 thread Ryzen is a well DUH! Second, the 1400 wasn't the "worst" model, there was a 1200 and 1300x that were 4/4. And seeing how my FX 8350 handles Witcher 3 better than my 3200G, it would be better than both of those 1st gen Ryzen.
Is it only in that particular game or others too? also, is the FX chip OC?
 
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