The first Obama/Wright attack ad shows up

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JS80
IMO the Ayers thing will not go far. It will be Wright and the bitter voters comment that can be used against him the most.

And the "bitter" comment only works when taken out of context and reversed of its meaning back on the people he was referring to, by tricking them into believing that Obama wants to take their God and guns, when he meant no such thing.
Democracy is about people participating in their own government. Of the people, for the people. Obama was saying that the people have been denied participation in our government to the point that they are cynical and no longer believe in it. So instead of even trying to participate in the process anymore, they claim to refute it (i.e. I don't want anything from my government, while they drive to work at a defense contractor on a public road, and cash their monthly SSA checks, go home to their "law and order" government protected home, and I could go on here), turn inwards to the local communities of their churches, and believe that guns are the only hope for change and participation in government.
That last part is most key. I cannot possibly count how many times in political discussions, when confronting an issue and/or law that needs to be (or at least should be) addressed or even changed, that I have been told, "That's the law, you don't like it, grab your gun and start a revolution." As though that should be the people's first and only means of direct participation in our government. WRONG. It should be the last. The option should always be there, but it should always be the last option. Otherwise, this wouldn't be a democracy at all. Or even a representative republic. When the only hope the people have against their government is armed revolution, that government is a tyrannical dictatorship.

It's a strange thing to me that the neocon right still wants to lay claim to titles of small government, conservatism, and libertarianism. Bullshit. You don't even believe in free markets anymore. Your mantra is do what you're told, believe what we tell you to believe, and if you don't like it, tough shit, we're the authority, you can't do anything about it. That is the modern right in a nutshell.

So maybe "bitter" wasn't the right word, but it wasn't untruthful either. And the people are waking up to this.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte
actually,

what I think is poor planning is failing to use actual facts/reason/logic to support your candidate.

what I think is even poorer is people looking forward to lying/swiftboating a candidate.

What part is the lie again? Even in the swiftboating of Kerry? What part was a lie?

That Obama is an extremist religious anti-american.

that is a lie.

Where in the ad does it say "Obama is an extremist religious"?

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte
actually,

what I think is poor planning is failing to use actual facts/reason/logic to support your candidate.

what I think is even poorer is people looking forward to lying/swiftboating a candidate.

What part is the lie again? Even in the swiftboating of Kerry? What part was a lie?

Ask and ye shall receive. The More you Know!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte
actually,

what I think is poor planning is failing to use actual facts/reason/logic to support your candidate.

what I think is even poorer is people looking forward to lying/swiftboating a candidate.

What part is the lie again? Even in the swiftboating of Kerry? What part was a lie?

That Obama is an extremist religious anti-american.

that is a lie.

Where in the ad does it say "Obama is an extremist religious"?

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte
actually,

what I think is poor planning is failing to use actual facts/reason/logic to support your candidate.

what I think is even poorer is people looking forward to lying/swiftboating a candidate.

What part is the lie again? Even in the swiftboating of Kerry? What part was a lie?

That Obama is an extremist religious anti-american.

that is a lie.

Where in the ad does it say "Obama is an extremist religious"?

oy vey :roll:

nevermind.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte
actually,

what I think is poor planning is failing to use actual facts/reason/logic to support your candidate.

what I think is even poorer is people looking forward to lying/swiftboating a candidate.

What part is the lie again? Even in the swiftboating of Kerry? What part was a lie?

It's easy to be blind when you don't wish to see.....

lol in the words of Dan Rather, "fake but accurate"

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: OrByte
actually,

what I think is poor planning is failing to use actual facts/reason/logic to support your candidate.

what I think is even poorer is people looking forward to lying/swiftboating a candidate.

What part is the lie again? Even in the swiftboating of Kerry? What part was a lie?

It's easy to be blind when you don't wish to see.....

lol in the words of Dan Rather, "fake but accurate"

That all you've got, sport? I expect it is and I know that you'll just keep avoiding the truth because you don't want to face it...

 

[OrByte]

for the learning/reasoning impaired:

general message of commercial:

we can't trust Obama's judgement because of his association with Rev Wright.

we cant trust the D candidates in NC because they support Obama.

Both of those are "Guilt by Association" a form of fallacious reasoning.

now keep up here!

"swiftboating" = the commercial

the commercial = guilt by association

guilt by association = logical fallacy

logical fallacy = deception

deception = lies.

lies = the Neocon way to discredit an opponent = pathetic. (I took the liberty of adding the "pathetic" )

and according to the posters in this thread I surmise that those who support "swiftboating" support lying.
I could be wrong tho.

 

[BoberFett]

I wonder what kind of ads we'll see against McCain?

Maybe him talking about 100 years in Iraq?

Perhaps clips of him stuttering like the buffoon he is when Paul asked him questions about economics?

It'll be amusing to watch at any rate.

 

[ProfJohn]

I think it is a shame that the swiftboat guys went after Kerry's war record. While there are some minor questions about his war record (3 purple hearts etc) overall he seems to have carried himself very well during his tour in Vietnam.
Instead they should have focused on what Kerry did when he came home instead.

I think it was his post war statements that did the most damage to Kerry, not the stuff about his combat record.

Stuff like this:
"had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I wonder what kind of ads we'll see against McCain?

Maybe him talking about 100 years in Iraq?

Perhaps clips of him stuttering like the buffoon he is when Paul asked him questions about economics?

It'll be amusing to watch at any rate.

He will stay above the fray as his religious nuts destroy the "antichrist" for him

The race card gets played to the Max .. Obama is never heard from again
-what a waste of senseless stupid lack of planning and disunity ... and he is a MORON for letting his ego get in the way. He deserves to lose - now

McLame will look like Ronald Regan in comparison and will win in a landslide

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I wonder what kind of ads we'll see against McCain?

Maybe him talking about 100 years in Iraq?

Perhaps clips of him stuttering like the buffoon he is when Paul asked him questions about economics?

It'll be amusing to watch at any rate.

100 years in Iraq would be a mistake since people like factcheck have already declared that he was taken out of context.

If Obama tried to run an ad against him using that statement they would respond by saying that Obama is lying and can't be trusted and that could spell doom for Obama. Obama has no record and is instead running on this promise that he can change America, but the second people stop trusting Obama he is dead in the water. It would be John Kerry all over, no one would trust him and everything he said would be questioned from that point forward.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
So...back to the topic: Why is the NC GOP doing this before the gubernatorial primaries, when there are still two Democrats in the race and the commercial will be long out of their minds when NC holds its general election for governor in the fall?

Caminetto already posted the answer to that question:

Originally posted by: Caminetto
The ad is an indication that Republicans fear Obama. They would rather go against Hillary and the ad was to effect the North Carolina primary.

There are many videos of Wright's preaching and 99% of them would seem fine with 99% of the people. The day that Wright displays some human frailty while getting too much caffeine is somehow a reflection on Obama.

 

[ProfJohn]

Robor... the word in Republican camps right now is that Obama is the weaker candidate. If you read what is being written by right wing columnists and the like you would know this.


They are going to paint Obama as an uber liberal (most liberal senator) who associates with terrorists and goes to church with an American hating minister. Obama is doomed.

The PA results show this.
Hillary does good with old people and working class people.
Obama does good with blacks, college kids and liberal elites.

Of those two groups which one is more likely to cross over and vote for McCain?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I wonder what kind of ads we'll see against McCain?

Maybe him talking about 100 years in Iraq?

Perhaps clips of him stuttering like the buffoon he is when Paul asked him questions about economics?

It'll be amusing to watch at any rate.

Agreed. Just show his recent bout of flip flopping, with fade in/out images of Bush.

I never get tired of watching this.

Or this.

It'll be a riot. :laugh:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
They are going to paint Obama as an uber liberal (most liberal senator) who associates with terrorists and goes to church with an American hating minister. Obama is doomed.

How is that different from any other election? Mud gets slung. Obama has proven that nothing really sticks. He closed a 20-point gap by 50%, even when bogged down with Wright and "bitter".

Doom and gloom; this time coming from the other side of the aisle.

:laugh: If Obama can't stand up to McCain, you have nothing to worry about

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I wonder what kind of ads we'll see against McCain?

Maybe him talking about 100 years in Iraq?

Perhaps clips of him stuttering like the buffoon he is when Paul asked him questions about economics?

It'll be amusing to watch at any rate.

Yep. War and economy will be the angles against McCain. He will have the legacy of the Bush admin around his neck.

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: loki8481
and the more shit I read on these forums from Obama supporters, the harder it is for me to picture myself voting for him.

Let me get this straight, people on this forum instead of Obama himself are making you decide not to vote him? :disgust:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Robor... the word in Republican camps right now is that Obama is the weaker candidate. If you read what is being written by right wing columnists and the like you would know this.

And they always say the opposite of the truth. This is known.

They are going to paint Obama as an uber liberal (most liberal senator) who associates with terrorists and goes to church with an American hating minister. Obama is doomed.

Yawn.

The PA results show this.
Hillary does good with old people and working class people.
Obama does good with blacks, college kids and liberal elites.

Of those two groups which one is more likely to cross over and vote for McCain?

The party of Bush who has fscked them over entirely?

In your dreams.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I wonder what kind of ads we'll see against McCain?

Maybe him talking about 100 years in Iraq?

Perhaps clips of him stuttering like the buffoon he is when Paul asked him questions about economics?

It'll be amusing to watch at any rate.

100 years in Iraq would be a mistake since people like factcheck have already declared that he was taken out of context.

Yes, because we all know how the average voter checks FactCheck on a daily basis, and doesn't vote based on sound bites.

If Obama tried to run an ad against him using that statement they would respond by saying that Obama is lying and can't be trusted and that could spell doom for Obama. Obama has no record and is instead running on this promise that he can change America, but the second people stop trusting Obama he is dead in the water. It would be John Kerry all over, no one would trust him and everything he said would be questioned from that point forward.

There's nothing non-factual about McCain and the hundred year comment. Did he or did he not say the words "100 years in Iraq would be fine with me."

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: loki8481
and the more shit I read on these forums from Obama supporters, the harder it is for me to picture myself voting for him.

Let me get this straight, people on this forum instead of Obama himself are making you decide not to vote him? :disgust:

This is par for the course on internet message boards. Ego and team almost always trump substance and fact.

As 99% of America barely even knows that boards like this exist, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think it is a shame that the swiftboat guys went after Kerry's war record. While there are some minor questions about his war record (3 purple hearts etc) overall he seems to have carried himself very well during his tour in Vietnam.
Instead they should have focused on what Kerry did when he came home instead.

I think it was his post war statements that did the most damage to Kerry, not the stuff about his combat record.

Stuff like this:
"had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

I really dont think it had that much to do with Kerry's failure anyways. I think he was a poor choice from the getgo and said so when he clinched the democratic nomination in 04. I even went so far as to put together a silly conspiracy theory about the dems putting up a lame duck for Hillary in 08.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I wonder what kind of ads we'll see against McCain?

Maybe him talking about 100 years in Iraq?

Perhaps clips of him stuttering like the buffoon he is when Paul asked him questions about economics?

It'll be amusing to watch at any rate.

Agreed. Just show his recent bout of flip flopping, with fade in/out images of Bush.

I never get tired of watching this.

Or this.

It'll be a riot. :laugh:

I like this one

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Vic
The party of Bush who has fscked them over entirely?

In your dreams.

Exactly. There is a clear-cut reason McCain wants a gas-tax holiday for the summer leading to the election: he's proper fvcked once gas rises this summer and people start thinking with their wallets, and not their fears.

Being closely associated with a very unpopular outgoing President who is associated with our country's current economic situation is lethal.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Vic
The party of Bush who has fscked them over entirely?

In your dreams.

Exactly. There is a clear-cut reason McCain wants a gas-tax holiday for the summer leading to the election: he's proper fvcked once gas rises this summer and people start thinking with their wallets, and not their fears.

Being closely associated with a very unpopular outgoing President who is associated with our country's current economic situation is lethal.

I think you two are overestimating people associating McCain with Bush. McCain has been viewed as a maverick in the party for years. If you are going to pin a presidential victory on the hope people associate the party maverick with Bush good luck.