The Confederate Flag

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The Confederate Flag Is,...

  • a symbol of racism.

  • a symbol of freedom.

  • a symbol that was once racist, but now no longer is.

  • I am a raging moron.


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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Some people choose focus on one part vs another when conceptualize things. Hitler pushed laws that made animal cruelty illegal, but nobody think of that when they think of Hitler. The confederates were first and foremost about slavery, but they were more than just that. Their flag is about fighting to keep slavery, but its also more than that.

Shit is complex.

Complex to a point. I don't think even the most rabid Greenpeace zealot would argue that Hitler's animal cruelty laws justified the rest of his actions. The Confederates had some noble ideals, even some noble actions, but they were implemented in one of the cruelest and most backward systems in American history. They're a prime example of the incumbent refusing to adapt to a changing world, hanging on tooth and nail until modern ways drag him down. With the advent of industrialization slavery was a doomed economic model, it was only a matter of time until it failed. But of course we had to fight the most costly war in American history to convince the Confederates of that. :p
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Complex to a point. I don't think even the most rabid Greenpeace zealot would argue that Hitler's animal cruelty laws justified the rest of his actions. The Confederates had some noble ideals, even some noble actions, but they were implemented in one of the cruelest and most backward systems in American history. They're a prime example of the incumbent refusing to adapt to a changing world, hanging on tooth and nail until modern ways drag him down. With the advent of industrialization slavery was a doomed economic model, it was only a matter of time until it failed. But of course we had to fight the most costly war in American history to convince the Confederates of that. :p

And the problem is that things and people are not all good or all bad. When someone like Hitler comes along, they are easy to cast aside because the bad they do is so large that any good would not be worth it. It gets harder with someone like Lincoln, because he is far closer to the middle of good and bad.

The south was abused with other laws and taxes. They were upset by those, but seemed to be willing to deal with them. The threat of slavery was the final 1 ton straw.

The war was mainly about slavery, but it not not only about slavery. Resentment of the north and its policies was a very real thing. While 1% of Southerners owned slaves, it was a fact that most people saw blacks as being below whites. It was likely necessary to have that view, because if you saw the lives blacks lived under slavery, and you thought blacks were equal, you would be horrified. So while only a few owned slaves, everyone in the south benefited and racism was necessary to get over slavery.

The point is, the flag is not only about racism, but it was such a big part, that it would be stupid to over look it. The Nazi flag was not only a symbol of anti semitism. The Nazi movement was in large part due to the economy post WWI, but the anti semitism was obviously part of the beliefs. People will want to focus on the good, and ignore the horrible bad. Some will cherry pick the good to hide their racism, and some will believe racism has nothing to do with the flag.

This is why the government should get out of speech and only allow people to express themselves.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Swastica has been around since at least the 3rd century BC. Some butt heads got a hold of it and forever painted it as a symbol of evil.

Then we turn around and we get the Ku Klux Klan that will burn Christian Crosses, isn't Christianity a big part of their lives?

Symbol-minded people are strange.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,499
560
126
Swastica has been around since at least the 3rd century BC. Some butt heads got a hold of it and forever painted it as a symbol of evil.

Then we turn around and we get the Ku Klux Klan that will burn Christian Crosses, isn't Christianity a big part of their lives?

Symbol-minded people are strange.

This is true, I posted the same thing long ago. I saw it at a church in Uganda made into the outside gate. Took a few pics of it. I have been to dozens of other countries and seen it all over the world.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
Of course the Swastca was, so were many of their symbols they modified, like the Maltese Cross.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,864
31,359
146
It's times like this when I remember my Coens':

"They was seen desecratin' a firey cross!"
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,080
5,453
136
It's times like this when I remember my Coens':

"They was seen desecratin' a firey cross!"

3523085437_4bbe1ed112.jpg



Is you is, or is you ain't, my constituency?
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,376
4,995
136

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
8,179
9,171
136
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/29...ding-confederate-flags-at-stone-mountain-park

So the flags at Stone Mountain are offensive, but the largest base relief in the world is OK? The carvings are of Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and Jefferson Davis. Surprised they are not calling to shutdown the entire park down.

Not wanting the state government to fly a flag at its best associated with a treasonous army from 160 years ago, and at its worst, the American Swastika, means that libruls are going to blow up Stone Mountain and all civil-war related statues. Or something.

Probably because anti-freedom. Definitely because of Benghazi.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
8,179
9,171
136
So now Americans are okay with censorship. This is why America is doomed.
Hint:

Censorship has nothing to do with a private individual or company no longer offering a service. I thought you Cons loved you some of that there FreeMarket?
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
Hint:

Censorship has nothing to do with a private individual or company no longer offering a service. I thought you Cons loved you some of that there FreeMarket?

So if private companies would ban watching Cosby show you would be okay with it? I mean if its okay to ban Dukes of hazard then you need to be okay with banning Cosby show?

I never understood why people are okay with banning something that they do not agree with "Dukes of Hazard"

Seriously Dukes of Hazard? Shit whats next burning all the Gone with the wind books and film?

Are you really okay with this?

First of all I am not a "Con" whatever that means.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
8,179
9,171
136
So if private companies would ban watching Cosby show you would be okay with it? I mean if its okay to ban Dukes of hazard then you need to be okay with banning Cosby show?

I never understood why people are okay with banning something that they do not agree with "Dukes of Hazard"

Seriously Dukes of Hazard? Shit whats next burning all the Gone with the wind books and film?

Are you really okay with this?

First of all I am not a "Con" whatever that means.
Learn what "banning" and "censorship" mean, first off.

Private companies ban things all the time. Are you able to buy Kroger brand items in a Walmart? No. Is that a "ban"? Nope.

A private company has decided not to provide a service or good.

You're perfectly able to go watch the Cosby show or Dukes of Hazzard elsewhere. There has been no law banning it or censoring it. No one is going to arrest you for watching it. No one is going to confiscate your DVDs of either show. You are not prohibited from selling Cosby show or Dukes of Hazzard shows, memorabilia, etc.

And that extends to the American Swastika. If you want to buy one and wave it around, go for it. I heard there's even a rally to support the flag in SC here soon. You're perfectly able to go join it with your own flag and a trunk full of Dukes of Hazzard DVDs.