The Biden infrastructure plan

[Bitek]

House votes to advance both the reconciliation budget bill and the separate bipartisan infrastructure bill, breaking deadlock between moderates and progressives.

House approves $3.5 trillion budget plan in key step for Democrats to pass legislation expanding social safety net

The House of Representatives on Tuesday approved a budget framework that will pave the way for Democrats to spend up to $3.5 trillion on a sweeping economic package to expand the social safety net that President Joe Biden has made a signature agenda item.

www.cnn.com

A lot hinges on this. Far more than hinges on our Afghanistan exit strategy.

I put this much higher priority than Afghanistan. Right behind covid.

Not happy with the shit job on the evac, but this was Bush's dumb strategy and Trump's peace deal, so I'll accept focusing on D priorities rather than spending Biden's term fixing R fuck ups.

To hell with Afghanistan, time to fix our country

 

[woolfe9998]

I put this much higher priority than Afghanistan. Right behind covid.

Not happy with the shit job on the evac, but this was Bush's dumb strategy and Trump's peace deal, so I'll accept focusing on D priorities rather than spending Biden's term fixing R fuck ups.

To hell with Afghanistan, time to fix our country

Yup, and even just looking at this in terms of politics, voters are far more likely to remember this legislation come late next year than they will Afghanistan. Unless there's a big massacre of Americans before we leave, most people will just remember he got us out.

If these changes to Medicare take place before next year, it will be a huge boost. Seniors suddenly getting dental, vision and hearing coverage. Cheaper prescription drugs. These things have a direct impact on people's lives.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Sorry, I don't agree at all. Look at Benghazi.

I literally haven't heard a single person talk about the infrastructure bill in real life. But lots of talk about the Afghanistan situation.

Further, even the positive aspects of this will be used against Biden/Democrats. By that, they're going spin bringing the interpreters and others that helped us over as refugees as bringing over the "bad" people (immigrants).

 

[ivwshane]

Sorry, I don't agree at all. Look at Benghazi.

I literally haven't heard a single person talk about the infrastructure bill in real life. But lots of talk about the Afghanistan situation.

Further, even the positive aspects of this will be used against Biden/Democrats. By that, they're going spin bringing the interpreters and others that helped us over as refugees as bringing over the "bad" people (immigrants).

Benghazi was just another talking point to add to the Hillary hate that was all ready cemented in American politics.

The only people talking about Afghanistan (as in voters) are people who probably weren't going to vote for Biden in the first place, aka trumpers, righties and anti vaxxers.

Make no mistake about it, right wing media will be pounding this as long as they can and the rest of the media will cover it as if its a huge crisis, until we get everyone out but then they will go silent. For twenty years the coverage of Afghanistan has been minimal, their faux concern is obvious to all except those that need to use it to hurt Biden.

How do we know this? Because if you ask anyone for alternatives to what Biden did you'll get the same talking point we've been hearing for twenty years, "surge", or any other name which results in more "temporary" troops.

 

[woolfe9998]

Sorry, I don't agree at all. Look at Benghazi.

I literally haven't heard a single person talk about the infrastructure bill in real life. But lots of talk about the Afghanistan situation.

Further, even the positive aspects of this will be used against Biden/Democrats. By that, they're going spin bringing the interpreters and others that helped us over as refugees as bringing over the "bad" people (immigrants).

In Benghazi we lost an American diplomat.

Of course people aren't talking about the legislation. Because talking about legislation which is in progress is a bore. This isn't about what people are talking about now. It's about what they'll remember/care about next November. If this legislation passes, it will directly affect many voters in a positive way.

 

[fskimospy]

Sorry, I don't agree at all. Look at Benghazi.

I literally haven't heard a single person talk about the infrastructure bill in real life. But lots of talk about the Afghanistan situation.

Further, even the positive aspects of this will be used against Biden/Democrats. By that, they're going spin bringing the interpreters and others that helped us over as refugees as bringing over the "bad" people (immigrants).

Regular people didn’t give a shit about Benghazi either.

 

[Bitek]

There is nothing I've seen that says there is a large public desire to stay in Afghanistan.

Both sides (left, populist right) are in agreement to GTFO. It's a shitshow and reminiscent of Saigon, so there will be the typical complaining, but no majority actually wants to reverse course and fight this out for another 20 years.

If anything, I'll give cred to Biden for sticking to his plan and not bowing to the complainers. It's ugly, but it's what needs to be done.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Sorry, I don't agree at all. Look at Benghazi.

I literally haven't heard a single person talk about the infrastructure bill in real life. But lots of talk about the Afghanistan situation.

Further, even the positive aspects of this will be used against Biden/Democrats. By that, they're going spin bringing the interpreters and others that helped us over as refugees as bringing over the "bad" people (immigrants).

Benghazi was Republican hype. They don't hold the power to hype it up that much this time. By Christmas the main story surrounding Afghanistan will be about solders that have been overseas getting to spend Christmas with their family.

Right now most people see the news about the Infrastructure bill as Congressional technical maneuvering, and people don't care or want to hear about the technical details of what Congress gets up to. It is all too complicated and frustrating to most people. They will pay attention to it once it goes to the President to sign. Then we will get all sorts of information about it, and talking heads debating it on shows that normal people watch, then the local stories about how it will effect their local community and individuals.

 

[K1052]

Regular people didn’t give a shit about Benghazi either.

Anti-Hillary congressional antics were basically pure Colombian cocaine to much of the media. Literally could not stop themselves to reflect if the Republicans were using them to drive her negatives up even more, which they were. A lot of poor editorial choices were made and there has been remarkably little reflection about that. Much of that same press is trying to restart the Afghan war right now.

 

[fskimospy]

Anti-Hillary congressional antics were basically pure Colombian cocaine to much of the media. Literally could not stop themselves to reflect if the Republicans were using them to drive her negatives up even more, which they were. A lot of poor editorial choices were made and there has been remarkably little reflection about that. Much of that same press is trying to restart the Afghan war right now.

I mean it makes sense, the media thrives on conflict and Biden’s boring, competent, relatively bipartisan presidency was starving them. Of course they are going to jump all over this.

 

[hal2kilo]

Dark money supporting "moderate" Dems in fight on infrastructure bill. I'm soo surprised.

Big money behind band of Democrats looking to torpedo Biden's agenda | Salon.com

The centrist group No Labels, which funnels big donor money to conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans, has also launched a six-figure ad campaign describing the centrist group as "real-life heroes."

 

[MrSquished]

Pelosi should get credit for pulling all the Dems together for the 3.5 trillion package.

 

[manly]

Sanders opened the bidding at 6T. We're now at 3.5T. We will end up somewhere under that but how far is the negotiation that now takes place amongst the Ds.

The House is unlikely to move the infra bill before this gets ironed out. It was always going to happen this way.

As everyone could see from 1000 miles away, Manchin will balk at $3.5T.

Manchin upends Democrats' push to enact Biden's agenda this month, calling for 'pause' on $3.5 trillion bill

Sen. Joe Manchin, the most pivotal Democratic swing vote in the Senate, threw a major wrench in his party's carefully crafted plans to pass a massive $3.5 trillion bill by month's end, demanding they take a "strategic pause" before considering a sweeping bill to implement much of President Joe...

www.cnn.com

My prediction is that if reconciliation ever passes, the top line figure will be $2.3T. The GQP caucus must be rubbing its hands with glee, hoping and praying that liberal and moderate Dems don't play nice and somehow torpedo both the bipartisan deal and the reconciliation bill.

 

[woolfe9998]

As everyone could see from 1000 miles away, Manchin will balk at $3.5T.

Manchin upends Democrats' push to enact Biden's agenda this month, calling for 'pause' on $3.5 trillion bill

Sen. Joe Manchin, the most pivotal Democratic swing vote in the Senate, threw a major wrench in his party's carefully crafted plans to pass a massive $3.5 trillion bill by month's end, demanding they take a "strategic pause" before considering a sweeping bill to implement much of President Joe...

www.cnn.com

My prediction is that if reconciliation ever passes, the top line figure will be $2.3T. The GQP caucus must be rubbing its hands with glee, hoping and praying that liberal and moderate Dems don't play nice and somehow torpedo both the bipartisan deal and the reconciliation bill.

It's always been inevitable that Manchin would force the dems to pair down the reconciliation bill. Let's hope he doesn't pair it down so much that the bill loses support from progressives.

I don't like his "strategic pause" language. It does not bode well.

 

[K1052]

As everyone could see from 1000 miles away, Manchin will balk at $3.5T.

Manchin upends Democrats' push to enact Biden's agenda this month, calling for 'pause' on $3.5 trillion bill

Sen. Joe Manchin, the most pivotal Democratic swing vote in the Senate, threw a major wrench in his party's carefully crafted plans to pass a massive $3.5 trillion bill by month's end, demanding they take a "strategic pause" before considering a sweeping bill to implement much of President Joe...

www.cnn.com

My prediction is that if reconciliation ever passes, the top line figure will be $2.3T. The GQP caucus must be rubbing its hands with glee, hoping and praying that liberal and moderate Dems don't play nice and somehow torpedo both the bipartisan deal and the reconciliation bill.

My personal bet is just a little over 3T. Less than that risks support from the liberal wing and he's not going to crater Biden's agenda.

It's always been inevitable that Manchin would force the dems to pair down the reconciliation bill. Let's hope he doesn't pair it down so much that the bill loses support from progressives.

I don't like his "strategic pause" language. It does not bode well.

We knew it was coming. Bernie's strategy of starting with a figure so high (7T!) that you actually get into the ballpark of something they want when cutting is done likely to pay off.

The rest is just Manchin being Manchin. Try not to overthink it.

 

[dank69]

It's always been inevitable that Manchin would force the dems to pair down the reconciliation bill. Let's hope he doesn't pair it down so much that the bill loses support from progressives.

I don't like his "strategic pause" language. It does not bode well.

He is being paid off. The liberal billionaires and millionaires need to put their money where their mouth is and pay him off more. That or the lobbyists have dirt on him. Both are highly probable.

 

[manly]

It's always been inevitable that Manchin would force the dems to pair down the reconciliation bill. Let's hope he doesn't pair it down so much that the bill loses support from progressives.

I don't like his "strategic pause" language. It does not bode well.

Sinema is also a hard no for $3.5T. I have no idea why, but I think she's even more to the right of Manchin.

I'm not very familiar with Congressional sausage making and we can all see that the path forward is tricky to maneuver. But I still don't understand why Democrats are writing legislation for $3.5T when we know Manchin and Sinema won't sign off. Don't we need to figure out what they can agree to and balance that with what progressives can accept? Having both the infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill falter would be an utter failure, and I don't see any universe where that doesn't hurt Democrats electorally.

 

[MrSquished]

Sinema is also a hard no for $3.5T. I have no idea why, but I think she's even more to the right of Manchin.

I'm not very familiar with Congressional sausage making and we can all see that the path forward is tricky to maneuver. But I still don't understand why Democrats are writing legislation for $3.5T when we know Manchin and Sinema won't sign off. Don't we need to figure out what they can agree to and balance that with what progressives can accept? Having both the infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill falter would be an utter failure, and I don't see any universe where that doesn't hurt Democrats electorally.

The Dems are fucked due to the structure of Congress. Forget the house being too small, giving redneck regressive states too much power, the Senate is out of control unbalanced.

If red States didn't get to over control Congress, we could move past a couple corrupt Democrats like Manchim and synema.

The whole system is broken.

Time to split up the country.

 

[Bitek]

As everyone could see from 1000 miles away, Manchin will balk at $3.5T.

Manchin upends Democrats' push to enact Biden's agenda this month, calling for 'pause' on $3.5 trillion bill

Sen. Joe Manchin, the most pivotal Democratic swing vote in the Senate, threw a major wrench in his party's carefully crafted plans to pass a massive $3.5 trillion bill by month's end, demanding they take a "strategic pause" before considering a sweeping bill to implement much of President Joe...

www.cnn.com

My prediction is that if reconciliation ever passes, the top line figure will be $2.3T. The GQP caucus must be rubbing its hands with glee, hoping and praying that liberal and moderate Dems don't play nice and somehow torpedo both the bipartisan deal and the reconciliation bill.

Democrats are the pandas that refuse to screw to save their own species.


I can't believe this country is stuck between them or the GQP running it. God help us

 

[K1052]

Sinema is also a hard no for $3.5T. I have no idea why, but I think she's even more to the right of Manchin.

Sinema is a deeply weird person who manages to make a spectacle of herself in politically unwise ways time after time. She appears to hold her voters and the public in deep contempt and generally seem disinterested in her job. I would not be at all sorry to see her replaced down the road. Manchin I mostly get even though I don't agree with him.

I'm not very familiar with Congressional sausage making and we can all see that the path forward is tricky to maneuver. But I still don't understand why Democrats are writing legislation for $3.5T when we know Manchin and Sinema won't sign off. Don't we need to figure out what they can agree to and balance that with what progressives can accept? Having both the infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill falter would be an utter failure, and I don't see any universe where that doesn't hurt Democrats electorally.

If we started from the chunks those two think we'd need we would probably be at 1T or less. The start with a crazy high top line (7T lol) and work back strategy will produce another couple trillion dollars of spend. Combined with the BIF the Democrats wringing out 3-4T worth of stuff is a fairly huge victory.

 

[dank69]

...

Time to split up the country.

You keep saying that but as much as I'd love that to happen it is beyond unrealistic. There are red hats and blue hats living in the same households ffs. How do you split that? You fucking can't. Let's focus on actual possible solutions like giving complete control to Republicans for a few decades until they beg us to fix it and then telling them to go fuck themselves.

 

[Brainonska511]

You keep saying that but as much as I'd love that to happen it is beyond unrealistic. There are red hats and blue hats living in the same households ffs. How do you split that? You fucking can't. Let's focus on actual possible solutions like giving complete control to Republicans for a few decades until they beg us to fix it and then telling them to go fuck themselves.

"Splitting up the country" only sounds like a good idea if you believe that states are monoliths of political support.

To split up the country means to throw millions of people under the bus to suffer under the heels of GOP repression; the same applies to the accelerationist bullshit. And both come from a place of extreme privilege.

 

[fskimospy]

You keep saying that but as much as I'd love that to happen it is beyond unrealistic. There are red hats and blue hats living in the same households ffs. How do you split that? You fucking can't. Let's focus on actual possible solutions like giving complete control to Republicans for a few decades until they beg us to fix it and then telling them to go fuck themselves.

Spoiler: if you give complete control to Republicans and they suffer a catastrophic failure they aren't going to admit they were wrong, they will just find something else to blame. And if you think after that long they are going to give up control I've got another spoiler for you.

 

[dank69]

Spoiler: if you give complete control to Republicans and they suffer a catastrophic failure they aren't going to admit they were wrong, they will just find something else to blame. And if you think after that long they are going to give up control I've got another spoiler for you.

I know, it's tongue in cheek. I still haven't heard of a better way yet, though. You admitted just the other day how conservatives are just fucking itching to kill a whole bunch of liberals.

 

[fskimospy]

I know, it's tongue in cheek. I still haven't heard of a better way yet, though. You admitted just the other day how conservatives are just fucking itching to kill a whole bunch of liberals.

Quite a lot of them are, yes. I agree it's scary! I don't have a good solution, because it seems like mass human suffering is the likely result any way it goes. If you split the country up the GOP areas are going to notice VERY quickly how much they depended on the federal government and then either they sink into destitution or lash out violently. If you keep the country together those same people work to (and maybe eventually succeed at) installing permanent minority rule.

The real problem is that a good portion of our country has gone insane and there's not really a good answer to that.