The Biden infrastructure plan

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Also, it’s not actually $925 billion and this is a 100% bad faith effort that the democrats should reject. This is overwhelmingly money taken from other programs and repurposed, just $257 billion is new.

So what this means is their counter offer is about 15% of Biden’s bid - a comically unserious offer.

When the GOP stiffs Manchin on the 1/6 commission I wonder how much tolerance he's got left for more screwing around on infrastructure where he doesn't even have to vote for a rule change. Not a lot I'd guess.
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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I believe the Democrats will stupidly continue to negotiate with Republicans and wind up too late to get anything. All that contempt for the uncompromising insanity for Republicans will prevent them from playing the same game, the only game that will work against an implacable enemy. You can’t effectively deal with people motivated by contempt and hate and will go as low as it takes to win. They first need to be crushed to the point where they raise a white flag and beg for mercy. Then negotiations will be about the terms of surrender.

But Democrats so hold Republicans in their own form of contempt, they will refuse to act like them, guaranteeing stagnation and defeat.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
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When the GOP stiffs Manchin on the 1/6 commission I wonder how much tolerance he's got left for more screwing around on infrastructure where he doesn't even have to vote for a rule change. Not a lot I'd guess.
I'll believe it when I see it...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I believe the Democrats will stupidly continue to negotiate with Republicans and wind up too late to get anything. All that contempt for the uncompromising insanity for Republicans will prevent them from playing the same game, the only game that will work against an implacable enemy. You can’t effectively deal with people motivated by contempt and hate and will go as low as it takes to win. They first need to be crushed to the point where they raise a white flag and beg for mercy. Then negotiations will be about the terms of surrender.

But Democrats so hold Republicans in their own form of contempt, they will refuse to act like them, guaranteeing stagnation and defeat.
Just a reminder that this must be a temporary form or response that must be immediately abandoned in favor of compassion when there is a true surrender and promise of redemption, of which only one should be afforded. It's not like there is any question that democracy is better than authoritarian dictatorship or any doubt that's where Republicans want to take us. You can't continue to play by the rules of the game when one side will not play by them.

But Democrats are afraid somebody will call them mean.
 

pete6032

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Vic

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I'm actually pretty conservative with regards to fiscal policy, but when you look at the simply massive amount of infrastructure spending going on globally right now, particularly in countries like China but also in the ME and Europe, and it becomes readily apparent that the US has no choice but to upgrade its aging infrastructure if we are to remain the world's economic and military superpower.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
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I'm actually pretty conservative with regards to fiscal policy, but when you look at the simply massive amount of infrastructure spending going on globally right now, particularly in countries like China but also in the ME and Europe, and it becomes readily apparent that the US has no choice but to upgrade its aging infrastructure if we are to remain the world's economic and military superpower.
The biggest hurdle if all this passes is going to be our absurd construction costs.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Senate Dems reach agreement for $3.5T reconciliation package. Combined with the bipartisan deal for a total of 4.1T on infrastructure spending. This gon be big if it goes through.
I don't think I'm being pessimistic, but this is all likely to blow up in Biden's face. The GOP will withdraw its votes on the bipartisan deal instead of allowing Democrats to have a great victory. Then, we'll have to pare down the reconciliation package to get Sens. Manchin and Sinema onboard. I don't fault the Biden administration for trying so hard; Biden's senatorial history almost requires it. Frankly it's already a little suprising that there was even a bipartisan agreement at all.

I'm actually pretty conservative with regards to fiscal policy, but when you look at the simply massive amount of infrastructure spending going on globally right now, particularly in countries like China but also in the ME and Europe, and it becomes readily apparent that the US has no choice but to upgrade its aging infrastructure if we are to remain the world's economic and military superpower.
Strongly agree, but what do Medicare and social services have to do with aging infrastructure? We can market it as human infrastructure, but does that make it true?
 
Dec 10, 2005
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I don't think I'm being pessimistic, but this is all likely to blow up in Biden's face. The GOP will withdraw its votes on the bipartisan deal instead of allowing Democrats to have a great victory. Then, we'll have to pare down the reconciliation package to get Sens. Manchin and Sinema onboard. I don't fault the Biden administration for trying so hard; Biden's senatorial history almost requires it. Frankly it's already a little suprising that there was even a bipartisan agreement at all.


Strongly agree, but what do Medicare and social services have to do with aging infrastructure? We can market it as human infrastructure, but does that make it true?
They wouldn't necessarily have to pare back the reconcilliation bill to get Manchin and Sinema onboard. The bipartisan deal already gets them onboard. If the Republicans sink the bipartisan deal, it gives Manchin and Sinema cover, since they can say they tried to bipartisan approach and Republicans renegged on it.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
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I don't think I'm being pessimistic, but this is all likely to blow up in Biden's face. The GOP will withdraw its votes on the bipartisan deal instead of allowing Democrats to have a great victory. Then, we'll have to pare down the reconciliation package to get Sens. Manchin and Sinema onboard. I don't fault the Biden administration for trying so hard; Biden's senatorial history almost requires it. Frankly it's already a little suprising that there was even a bipartisan agreement at all.


Strongly agree, but what do Medicare and social services have to do with aging infrastructure? We can market it as human infrastructure, but does that make it true?
They wouldn't necessarily have to pare back the reconcilliation bill to get Manchin and Sinema onboard. The bipartisan deal already gets them onboard. If the Republicans sink the bipartisan deal, it gives Manchin and Sinema cover, since they can say they tried to bipartisan approach and Republicans renegged on it.

i think this is the most likely route if the bipartisan bill fails.

on top of that, once all that money starts flowing into the economy (becase government spending has a GDP multiplier), i think people will be much happier with infrastructure spending than with tax cuts for the uber wealthy. a lot can happen in 3 years
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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They wouldn't necessarily have to pare back the reconcilliation bill to get Manchin and Sinema onboard. The bipartisan deal already gets them onboard. If the Republicans sink the bipartisan deal, it gives Manchin and Sinema cover, since they can say they tried to bipartisan approach and Republicans renegged on it.


You have a lot more faith than I do. Manchin has said many times that he's concerned about the headline number of any reconciliation bill. It's somewhat understandable considering he's a Democrat senator in a solidly red state. Sinema is more of an enigma, but she seems to want to be seen as slightly to the right of Manchin, even though Arizona is currently a "lean right" state and her approval numbers are stout. She doesn't need to weaken the Democratic caucus to win brownie points back home.

All in all, it's just going to be difficult to thread the needle. When Biden appeared to confirm the party line that the bipartisan infrastructure bill would progress in sync with the reconciliation bill, all hell broke loose and he had to walk the implicit "veto threat" back.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
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Surprised this hasn't been acknowledge yet. Oh, by the way, the Infrastructure bill was passed today, IIRC, 69 to 29.
I'm really worried that this is going to get mired in the house. I don't trust the Republicans, but more so I don't trust Manchin, and Sinema if the progressives insist on a lot of things. I UTFSE.
 
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K1052

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Aug 21, 2003
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Surprised this hasn't been acknowledge yet. Oh, by the way, the Infrastructure bill was passed today, IIRC, 63 to 29.
I'm really worried that this is going to get mired in the house. I don't trust the Republicans, but more so I don't trust Manchin, and Sinema if the progressives insist on a lot of things. I UTFSE.

The House is going to want to pass both bills. Only real question is how big the reconciliation bill will be in the end.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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The House needs to pass it ASAP. Yes, it isn't everything the left wants. We can proceed with a second bill through budget reconciliation after. The country needs the infrastructure and the Biden admin needs the achievement unless we want more repugs in office.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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The House needs to pass it ASAP. Yes, it isn't everything the left wants. We can proceed with a second bill through budget reconciliation after. The country needs the infrastructure and the Biden admin needs the achievement unless we want more repugs in office.
Yea, I missed the main part, which was tying this to the reconciliation bill. That's my concern. I say take the money and run. Then work like hell on the other (which will end up being greatly reduced if even passed).
 
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K1052

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Aug 21, 2003
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Sanders opened the bidding at 6T. We're now at 3.5T. We will end up somewhere under that but how far is the negotiation that now takes place amongst the Ds.

The House is unlikely to move the infra bill before this gets ironed out. It was always going to happen this way.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Sanders opened the bidding at 6T. We're now at 3.5T. We will end up somewhere under that but how far is the negotiation that now takes place amongst the Ds.

The House is unlikely to move the infra bill before this gets ironed out. It was always going to happen this way.

If certain House dems end up killing both bills and we get nothing, that's going to be on them.
 
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K1052

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If certain House dems end up killing both bills and we get nothing, that's going to be on them.

I think this is a very unlikely outcome. There has been/ is going to be a lot of noise because the House has had to take a back seat to the Senate given the margin. A lot of it is also posturing for negotiations over reconciliation. Everybody wants their slice.
 

K1052

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Aug 21, 2003
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But, that's the big lift.

Of course but this is a really friendly foot to get off on if they're looking for maximal money out of Manchin et al for reconciliation. There are less bomb throwers in the D caucus and nobody wants to be the person who fucks things up for everyone.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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And meanwhile, while most of the talk is about Afghanistan, which has little effect on us in the long term, both major spending bills are still pending. 9 moderate dems in the House are holding out to pass the bipartisan bill first, while Pelosi is holding firm for dual tracks.


Both bills contain numerous provisions for fighting climate change. Also, the reconciliation bill will allow Medicare to negotiate drugs prices, and expand Medicare to include dental, vision and hearing.

These are huge reforms which will have a major benefit to the public if passed.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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House votes to advance both the reconciliation budget bill and the separate bipartisan infrastructure bill, breaking deadlock between moderates and progressives.


A lot hinges on this. Far more than hinges on our Afghanistan exit strategy.
 
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