The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That would be 0%.

Proving you wrong is impossible when you choose to remain purposefully ignorant. We've already gone over this before. You just want to paint with overly-broad brush strokes.

 

[ultimatebob]

ALL crypto coin is a scam. All of it. Every MonkeyDoggieEtherMax coin ever made or that ever will be.

The only difference between Ethereum and EthereumMax(tm) is that the whales have bailed and cashed out in the latter, while in the former they're still pulling the strings and waiting for the right time.

Except the ones that aren't.

As a "crypto coin" creator, I guess that I should be offended by this?

When I created Coolcoin as a reward token for ATOT, I never asked for anyone's money. I gave them away for free as a reward for posting cool content. There was no profit motive there at all.

That said, I still get where you're coming from. The "whales" on the Ethereum team let token transaction costs rise to the point where my reward token is no longer economically feasible. As the developer in this case, that makes me feel like I got ripped off because the miners got greedy.

That said, saying that "all crypto is a scam" is painting with a pretty broad brush. I know plenty of people in real life who are trying to use blockchain tech to develop some cool stuff. Most of them are just doing it for fun, too. There are new cryptocurrencies coming out now that have lower fees and aren't wasting gigawatts of electricity for mining. So, yeah... they're not ALL bad.

 

[DrMrLordX]

There are new cryptocurrencies coming out now that have lower fees and aren't wasting gigawatts of electricity for mining. So, yeah... they're not ALL bad.

Even Ethereum has layer 2 solutions like Polygon that can dramatically reduce txn fees.

With ETH Gas Fees So High — Why Isn't Polygon Breaking Out?

In recent months, Ethereum gas fees have hit staggering highs locking some users out of DEX swaps. But as Ethereum remains exceedingly behind schedule with the implementation of ETH 2.0 and a host of other technical upgrades, a host of other platforms termed as "Ethereum Killers" have emerged...

blockster.com

All you would need is a really good invoicing system that takes advantage of Polygon and you could have a fast and cheap payment system that would work securely over a public blockchain. Oh wait, that exists too!

Request Network Foundation

Infrastructure for Web3 payments, invoices, accounting.

request.network

 

[ultimatebob]

I'm not sure that I really want to deal with Ethereum side chains to complete a transaction. I like being able to use a simple web wallet like Metamask to send and receive crypto without having to add additional configuration.

With something like Solana, you don't need a third-party tool to get faster transactions or lower fees as it's already built into the protocol.

 

[beginner99]

ALL crypto coin is a scam. All of it. Every MonkeyDoggieEtherMax coin ever made or that ever will be.

The only difference between Ethereum and EthereumMax(tm) is that the whales have bailed and cashed out in the latter, while in the former they're still pulling the strings and waiting for the right time.

Right...Can you name the whales you are talking about? You do know that the founders or initial buyers would be billionaires if they cashed out right? Theoretically. Of course price but fall quickly once they do so but they would still easily make several 100s of millions. The point being "waiting for the right time" makes no sense. Waiting for what exactly? that they get 1 billion instread of 100 million?

With something like Solana, you don't need a third-party tool to get faster transactions or lower fees as it's already built into the protocol.

Solana is defacto centralized and hence pointless to even use block chain. One one said from the tech/server point of view but also the fact that price is kept high through scarcity because most of the coins were bought up by venture capitalists. Not to mentioned they caught caught lying multiple times.

 

[ultimatebob]

Solana is defacto centralized and hence pointless to even use block chain. One one said from the tech/server point of view but also the fact that price is kept high through scarcity because most of the coins were bought up by venture capitalists. Not to mentioned they caught caught lying multiple times.

I do find it amusing that every time I mention Solana on social media (Twitter, Reddit, even here), an Ethereum fanboy quickly pops up and screams "Solana is BAD! It's Centralized!!". I think that somebody is afraid of competition

Anyway, we've already talked about this earlier. Anybody can set up their own Solana validator if they want. It just requires more expensive hardware to start than something like Ethereum does. Besides, crypto mining in general is "centralized" now, with the top ten mining pools controlling most of the hashrate for almost any given cryptocurrency.

 

[Mopetar]

That would be 0%.

You're engaging in circular reasoning.

If you don't like cryptocurrencies or want to use them, no one is making you. But to take that disdain and let it cloud your thinking isn't going to do you any good. It's perfectly okay not to like cryptocurrency or to want to use it. No one is going to think less of you for it. Making ridiculous arguments on the other hand, for that I can't say the same.

I do find it amusing that every time I mention Solana on social media (Twitter, Reddit, even here), an Ethereum fanboy quickly pops up and screams "Solana is BAD! It's Centralized!!". I think that somebody is afraid of competition

I don't know enough of Solana or how it's set up, but the whole purpose of a blockchain was to have a trusted record that could exist in the absence of a central authority. I don't know if the cries of "centralization" are just hollow, but there is some validity to the argument as a whole.

Of course there are plenty of ETH and BTC users that put their coins in some kind of exchange that does its internal accounting off of the blockchain which defeats the purpose just as much, so I can't really say that most people screaming about centralization should even be doing that when they seem quite willing to engage in a different form of it themselves.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm not sure that I really want to deal with Ethereum side chains to complete a transaction. I like being able to use a simple web wallet like Metamask to send and receive crypto without having to add additional configuration.

Let's be honest: if you're still working at the wallet level, blockchain isn't "there" yet. We should be using simplified interfaces where you're broadly unaware of whether you're using a sidechain. One of the reasons I brought up REQ.

I do find it amusing that every time I mention Solana on social media (Twitter, Reddit, even here), an Ethereum fanboy quickly pops up and screams "Solana is BAD! It's Centralized!!". I think that somebody is afraid of competition

Anyway, we've already talked about this earlier. Anybody can set up their own Solana validator if they want. It just requires more expensive hardware to start than something like Ethereum does. Besides, crypto mining in general is "centralized" now, with the top ten mining pools controlling most of the hashrate for almost any given cryptocurrency.

Solana isn't as centralized as XRP so it can't be all bad. Besides those VC guys will get off their tokens eventually.

 

[beginner99]

I do find it amusing that every time I mention Solana on social media (Twitter, Reddit, even here), an Ethereum fanboy quickly pops up and screams "Solana is BAD! It's Centralized!!". I think that somebody is afraid of competition

Anyway, we've already talked about this earlier. Anybody can set up their own Solana validator if they want. It just requires more expensive hardware to start than something like Ethereum does. Besides, crypto mining in general is "centralized" now, with the top ten mining pools controlling most of the hashrate for almost any given cryptocurrency.

True I think I already explained that before and stick to it especially the issue with VC and lying. There is actually much better tech than solana out there which actually is/can be decentralized. To some extend I have to be fair enough. It takes some time/adoption to built a real decentralized network. Can't get around the founders having control early on by setting up initial validators.

Algorand founder even claims Ethereum with PoS is centralized as only people with enough ETH can actually stake directly themselves and then there are staking pools and centralized services potentially leading to the same problems as mining pools. I see the issue but for me centralization means a single org can cripple/shutdown the network. I don't see that being possible with Ethereum after the merge.

 

[VirtualLarry]

A few minutes in, he talks about impending crypto collapse. Talking about inflation, stimmys, and flight to cash.

 

[ultimatebob]

A few minutes in, he talks about impending crypto collapse. Talking about inflation, stimmys, and flight to cash.

He should stick with refurbishing old gaming PC's. He a good PC builder, but a lousy economist.

 

[alcoholbob]

Right...Can you name the whales you are talking about? You do know that the founders or initial buyers would be billionaires if they cashed out right? Theoretically. Of course price but fall quickly once they do so but they would still easily make several 100s of millions. The point being "waiting for the right time" makes no sense. Waiting for what exactly? that they get 1 billion instread of 100 million?



Solana is defacto centralized and hence pointless to even use block chain. One one said from the tech/server point of view but also the fact that price is kept high through scarcity because most of the coins were bought up by venture capitalists. Not to mentioned they caught caught lying multiple times.

I wonder if whales are acting like corporate founders that anchor tech stocks. The shit coins are all a result because the founders rug pulled, but eth and btc still function because the coins are led by true believers.

 

[DrMrLordX]

He should stick with refurbishing old gaming PC's. He a good PC builder, but a lousy economist.

It's really up in the air as to how monetary policy and consumer behavior will unite to affect the value of blockchain tokens in the future. Most tokens are already grotesquely overvalued when assessed against the actual function of their related project. Money has been pouring into the sector for numerous reasons. Not all of them have been particularly good reasons. The question is whether or how long it will stay there. The idea that people will retreat to cash in times of uncertainty is . . . potentially valid, but at the same time, people aren't going to retreat to cash during ongoing inflation no matter how badly foreign units of currency might be performing in comparison. If USD is inflating at 7% and Turkish Lira are inflating at 30%, does it make sense that people in Turkey would sell their crypto for USD? Not really buying it. Blockchain token markets can still crash for any number of reasons, but ongoing monetary inflation is not one of them.

Rising interest rates MIGHT threaten any number of speculative asset markets; that being said, it could also render the public debt of certain countries (such as the United States) unmanageable which would, in turn, shake public trust in government-backed currency.

 

[wege12]

As a "crypto coin" creator, I guess that I should be offended by this?

When I created Coolcoin as a reward token for ATOT, I never asked for anyone's money. I gave them away for free as a reward for posting cool content. There was no profit motive there at all.

That said, I still get where you're coming from. The "whales" on the Ethereum team let token transaction costs rise to the point where my reward token is no longer economically feasible. As the developer in this case, that makes me feel like I got ripped off because the miners got greedy.

That said, saying that "all crypto is a scam" is painting with a pretty broad brush. I know plenty of people in real life who are trying to use blockchain tech to develop some cool stuff. Most of them are just doing it for fun, too. There are new cryptocurrencies coming out now that have lower fees and aren't wasting gigawatts of electricity for mining. So, yeah... they're not ALL bad.

The part of your post I bolded is factually incorrect and makes me think you don't understand how blockchains or Ethereum works. Nobody decides what the fees for Ethereum transactions will cost. The way fees are determined is the supply and demand of blockspace. Ethereum has a new block about every 12-13 seconds and depending how many ppl want their transactions included in that block determines the price of fees. It is simply supply and demand of Ethereum's available blockspace.

The good news is that Layer 2 Rollups are already live on Ethereum and offer much cheaper fees but still retains all the security of ETH L1. Checkout Aribitrum, Optimism and zksync if you're interested.

 

[ultimatebob]

The part of your post I bolded is factually incorrect and makes me think you don't understand how blockchains or Ethereum works. Nobody decides what the fees for Ethereum transactions will cost. The way fees are determined is the supply and demand of blockspace. Ethereum has a new block about every 12-13 seconds and depending how many ppl want their transactions included in that block determines the price of fees. It is simply supply and demand of Ethereum's available blockspace.

The good news is that Layer 2 Rollups are already live on Ethereum and offer much cheaper fees but still retains all the security of ETH L1. Checkout Aribitrum, Optimism and zksync if you're interested.

Yes, I understand that the transaction pricing for Ethereum is dynamic based on demand. What I also understand is that this problem has been slowly getting worse for years and the Ethereum team failed to scale the protocol to meet the increased transaction demand. I'd imagine that they weren't in much of a hurry to fix it, either, considering that those transaction fees go into the miners pockets.

 

[wege12]

Yes, I understand that the transaction pricing for Ethereum is dynamic based on demand. What I also understand is that this problem has been slowly getting worse for years and the Ethereum team failed to scale the protocol to meet the increased transaction demand. I'd imagine that they weren't in much of a hurry to fix it, either, considering that those transaction fees go into the miners pockets.

Incorrect. Ethereum originally wanted to scale at L1 but after much research concluded it would eventually centralize the protocol to do so. Hence why they now have a rollup centric map for scaling that is already live and can be used by anyone willing to take a look. And base transaction fees are now burned which further invalidates your emotional arguments towards ETH.

 

[ultimatebob]

Incorrect. Ethereum originally wanted to scale at L1 but after much research concluded it would eventually centralize the protocol to do so. Hence why they now have a rollup centric map for scaling that is already live and can be used by anyone willing to take a look. And base transaction fees are now burned which further invalidates your emotional arguments towards ETH.

Interesting... I didn't know that they started burning the gas fee after the recent protocol upgrade last August. It looks like miners still get a priority fee, though, which is kinda necessary considering how slow Ethereum transactions can be at times.

So, basically everything I said was true up until six months ago. The miners were profiting off of the status quo instead of improving the network up until recently. Now they're only kinda-sorta profiting off of people who are impatient with their transactions completing slowly. I guess that's progress? Not much progress, anyway, because the fees themselves are still sky high and nobody can seem to agree on a unified level 2 solution.

 

[DrMrLordX]

considering that those transaction fees go into the miners pockets.

It prevents the blockchain from scaling up in total transactions. Increase the txn rate and keep fees the same, and miners get paid all the same.

 

[VirtualLarry]

So, basically everything I said was true up until six months ago. The miners were profiting off of the status quo instead of improving the network up until recently. Now they're only kinda-sorta profiting off of people who are impatient with their transactions completing slowly. I guess that's progress? Not much progress, anyway, because the fees themselves are still sky high and nobody can seem to agree on a unified level 2 solution.

The miners and the devs are a Venn diagram with zero intersection. You act like it's "the miners" who schemed up this whole ethereum thing, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[wege12]

Interesting... I didn't know that they started burning the gas fee after the recent protocol upgrade last August. It looks like miners still get a priority fee, though, which is kinda necessary considering how slow Ethereum transactions can be at times.

So, basically everything I said was true up until six months ago. The miners were profiting off of the status quo instead of improving the network up until recently. Now they're only kinda-sorta profiting off of people who are impatient with their transactions completing slowly. I guess that's progress? Not much progress, anyway, because the fees themselves are still sky high and nobody can seem to agree on a unified level 2 solution.

I'm trying to be kind and informative but it is clear that you have something personal against Ethereum.

No, you weren't correct six months ago. There is/was no conspiracy to keep ETH fees high. It is extremely difficult to scale L1 in a decentralized fashion. Solana and Avalanche (avax is just an ETH fork) chose to go more centralized to achieve more scale at L1. It just so happens that Ethereum is where most ppl want to transact and there is a finite amount of blockspace. And there will not be "one unified L2 solution". There will be many on top of Ethereum each built for specific use cases and different tradeoffs. Not to mention that ETH L2's have flipped the blockchain trilemma on it's head. So in short, the more users and transactions that take place at L2, the cheaper the fees of each L2 tx in that block will be since the L1 tx fee to post the tx data from L2 will be split amongst all users/tx in that specific block.

 

[ultimatebob]

I'm trying to be kind and informative but it is clear that you have something personal against Ethereum.

No, you weren't correct six months ago. There is/was no conspiracy to keep ETH fees high. It is extremely difficult to scale L1 in a decentralized fashion. Solana and Avalanche (avax is just an ETH fork) chose to go more centralized to achieve more scale at L1. It just so happens that Ethereum is where most ppl want to transact and there is a finite amount of blockspace. And there will not be "one unified L2 solution". There will be many on top of Ethereum each built for specific use cases and different tradeoffs. Not to mention that ETH L2's have flipped the blockchain trilemma on it's head. So in short, the more users and transactions that take place at L2, the cheaper the fees of each L2 tx in that block will be since the L1 tx fee to post the tx data from L2 will be split amongst all users/tx in that specific block.

I'd imagine that most people in this forum have an axe to grind against Ethereum, because the miners of it have been jacking up the price of video cards for the past year. Worse yet, it's not the first time it has done this. I'm sure that a lot of us remember the graphics card shortages back in late 2017.

Along with that, I'm also annoyed that the increased transaction fees for ERC-20 tokens made the token that I made (Coolcoin, remember Coolcoin?) kinda useless for it's intended purpose as a reward token. Giving people what was supposed to be modern equivalent of a gold star on their test paper stopped making economic sense when the gold stars now have a $25 shipping fee to deliver

But, no, I'm not an Ethereum hater. I still have some in my Coinbase account, and I'm hoping that they fix their scaling issues before their competition makes it obsolete.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd imagine that most people in this forum have an axe to grind against Ethereum, because the miners of it have been jacking up the price of video cards for the past year.

This isn't correct, either.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Along with that, I'm also annoyed that the increased transaction fees for ERC-20 tokens made the token that I made (Coolcoin, remember Coolcoin?) kinda useless for it's intended purpose as a reward token. Giving people what was supposed to be modern equivalent of a gold star on their test paper stopped making economic sense when the gold stars now have a $25 shipping fee to deliver

Funny, you're not hating on NFTs or those people that made them a "thing". (Hint, again, not miners.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, who am I to say. Mining sucks. It takes a long time, and you don't make (much). But it (up until now) has been "easy" to get into, if you're half-way skilled with computers / PCs, and already own most of the hardware. (Such as that shiny new AlienWare gaming PC.)

But it's a way of (indirectly) investing in crypto, with the hedge of having hardware with tangible value left over if it all crashes.

For me, it's mostly an (alternative) way of heating my apt during the colder months, while generating "pizza money" on the side.

To a point, it's kind of fun, slightly addicting, and can be detrimental to your mental health if you have OCD. Plus, the Bible says not to make / worship idols.

 

[ultimatebob]

This isn't correct, either.

I'm not sure how you can say that "miners didn't effect video card pricing" after seeing all those videos of mining farms filled with hundreds of shiny new GeForce 30X0 cards that got purchased by the truckload. Where do you think those cards were supposed to go?