The anti-crypto thread

[BFG10K]

Great news, crypto's collapsing across the board: https://www.techpowerup.com/282380/...ions-in-less-than-24-hours-did-the-bubble-pop

Also China's banned crypto, though individuals can still have it: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-122712260.html

The sooner this cancerous parasite is wiped out, the better.

 

[DrMrLordX]

A larger money supply is only a problem if you hoard cash. Which you shouldn't do for obvious reasons.

It's a problem if your pay is stagnant; see minimum wage laws. In a deflationary economy, minimum wage improves over the years, especially if your legislative body is deadlocked and can't muster enough political will to change such laws. Congress hasn't changed the minimum wage in the United States since 2009.

 

[Shivansps]

Im sorry but i need to jump in here. As a Argentinian i understand inflationary economy very well because ive expended over 30 years (and counting) of my life dealing with it.

Politicians LOVE inflation (you buy votes with public funds, in diferent ways, all financed by a printer), thats like a drug to them. It is bad long term = forcing people to consume now means no saving, no saving means no investments, what means a poor person will be always be poor, they cant progress. What is great for the politicians, that means cheaper votes.
It is good to deal with old debts, yet, banks arent dumb, inflation means higher interest rates for new debts = less investments.
Less investments means less private jobs, what increases the need for more public jobs, what increases the need for printing more money and/or more taxes what means less private jobs once again. All results in more people living off the goverment = yeay more votes.

People get used to it over time, thats the worse part, it starts to spiral out of control, and you reach a point were your country cant live whiout it and there is no way to fix it whiout killing half of the population. Thats were Argentina is right now. So be carefull when thinking that "its fine"...

Now crypto does not fix ANYTHING, crypto is inflationary by design, the only diference is that WE ARE THE ONES "printing" the money, not the politicians, so WE ARE the ones feeling the power they have. If you replace fiat for crypto it is going to have the exact same effect.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The issues is the euro. 2 markets with different productivity simply can't share the same currency or else the less productive market will suffer badly and the more productive one will excel. This is best seen in Greece.

Now that we can completely agree on. The Euro has been the worst mistake this century. Of course, there are still 78 years to go, so I'm sure our politicians will cook something up.

With regards to Greece, it actually gets worse when you go into details. The Germans loan money to f.x. Greece, to then buy German goods for. Of course they want both payment for those goods, and the loan paid off too. With interest of course.

It's a problem if your pay is stagnant; see minimum wage laws. In a deflationary economy, minimum wage improves over the years, especially if your legislative body is deadlocked and can't muster enough political will to change such laws. Congress hasn't changed the minimum wage in the United States since 2009.

If your minimum wage has stagnated '09, you have political problems to deal with first. We don't have a minimum wage as such here, see the Danish(Nordic) Model and Flexicurity, but what amounts to it has effectively creeped upwards a little higher then inflation. The effective minimum wage is about 110DKK (US$ 16.5) an hour, and that's basically for flipping burgers. You don't need much to earn 150-200DKK (US$ 32) an hour.

The downside is living expenses and taxes are among the highest in the world.

Im sorry but i need to jump in here. As a Argentinian i understand inflationary economy very well because ive expended over 30 years (and counting) of my life dealing with it.

Politicians LOVE inflation (you buy votes with public funds, in diferent ways, all financed by a printer), thats like a drug to them. It is bad long term = forcing people to consume now means no saving, no saving means no investments, what means a poor person will be always be poor, they cant progress. What is great for the politicians, that means cheaper votes.
It is good to deal with old debts, yet, banks arent dumb, inflation means higher interest rates for new debts = less investments.
Less investments means less private jobs, what increases the need for more public jobs, what increases the need for printing more money and/or more taxes what means less private jobs once again. All results in more people living off the goverment = yeay more votes.

People get used to it over time, thats the worse part, it starts to spiral out of control, and you reach a point were your country cant live whiout it and there is no way to fix it whiout killing half of the population. Thats were Argentina is right now. So be carefull when thinking that "its fine"...

Look, I'm not advocating for out-of-control inflation. I'm just advocating what has worked here in Denmark, very, very successfully for the past 90 years. Yes, there have been up and downs, but nothing has gotten out of control.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If your minimum wage has stagnated '09, you have political problems to deal with first.

Or not. What won't go up, probably won't go down. All it would take is the Fed changing to a mildly deflationary monetary policy. BAM problem solved. Of course the national debt would be much more difficult to service, so they won't be doing that anytime soon.

btw

While somewhat not-really-on-topic, inflation/deflation is an issue when creating and maintaining a blockchain project, so it isn't entirely unrelated. Rampant money-printing is also possibly responsible for token valuations being so out-of-control right now.

 

[Mopetar]

It isn't obvious? I'll take the $100 in nine months, thank you. I'm used to investing, so I have plenty of patience. I really don't care what "other people" do.

No doubt your relational behavior with respect to financial investment has made your life considerably better. Unfortunately, most people just don't function that way. Evolution really didn't wire us for it and humans are still in the process of adapting to the world and society that we now live in.

It's a problem if your pay is stagnant; see minimum wage laws. In a deflationary economy, minimum wage improves over the years, especially if your legislative body is deadlocked and can't muster enough political will to change such laws. Congress hasn't changed the minimum wage in the United States since 2009.

Minimum wage laws are counter-productive. The real minimum wage is always $0 which is what you'll get paid if there's an artificial floor preventing you from selling your labor at any cost below that point. Since Denmark has come up, they're one of the countries that doesn't have a mandated minimum wage. They do have pretty good trade unions that actually take care of their workers.

Of course if you were in a deflationary system you'd probably never get a raise outside of some actual promotion or switching to a higher paying job. Like I've said, as long as it's a small effect, it doesn't really matter since everything will adjust around it. The world will keep on working fine though.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Unfortunately, most people just don't function that way. Evolution really didn't wire us for it and humans are still in the process of adapting to the world and society that we now live in.

That's a general problem with all economic theory. They assume people act rationally. In the real world, of course they don't. Which is why you have boom-and-bust cycles. ALL economic theories break down when you stretch them far enough, even if you account for that fact.

BTW, thanks for a good discussion. Helps keep the mind sharp. Which is sorely needed these days.

 

[ultimatebob]

The price to exchange an Ethereum ERC-20 token today is $55. That's pathetic. They really need to fix these scaling issues before the Solana team takes all of their business.

 

[AdamK47]

I was pleasantly surprised to see Ethereum drop below $3k today.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Whatever the price of ETH is today it would be most interesting to view this thread 5 years from now.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The price to exchange an Ethereum ERC-20 token today is $55. That's pathetic.

Not that I'm thrilled with it, but I was able to move some ERC20s for "just" $13.50 a few hours ago.

 

[BFG10K]

1). Leave country
2). Get Internet access, preferably with a VPN
3). ???
4). Profit!

Bonus points for you if you memorized your 40-word keyphrase or if you have a keyfile in dropbox or similar. Nothing to confiscate at the border.

Or you can, you know, just wait for them to turn the power back on. Your tokens will be there waiting for you.

You didn't answer the question: Show us how to access a Crypto wallet without electricity or internet.

Crossing the border to get power/internet doesn't answer the question. The question is very simple English. Which part would you like me to clarify for you?

The fact is crypto is far more brittle (and unstable) compared to fiat - nothing more than a ponzi representation of the delusion of utopia.

So what? Why does Bitcoin (or anything else) have to be worth $60k or $40k to "work"?.

Because cryptobros tell us fiat is bad because of inflation and that 'coins will "solve" that.

Cryptobros also tell us fiat is bad because it prints money, yet we have 8000+ different "coins" that appeared from whatever orifice they're imagined. And tethers get printed and printed like the energizer bunny.

In reality crypto's worse than the absolute worst fiat in the most failed states. All Musk has to do is open his piehole and it loses 20% within hours.

Not that I'm thrilled with it, but I was able to move some ERC20s for "just" $13.50 a few hours ago.

Interesting, so the fees are also paid in fiat? But..but...why don't they accept doggies, catties, or more Ether? Oh that's right, because all crypto is intrinsically worthless.

We're going to solve the problems with fiat...by converting crypto back to fiat! - cryptobros.

Comically farcical, akin to a child's reasoning.

 

[R0H1T]

so WE ARE the ones feeling the power they have

No you aren't, the ones with the biggest "wallets" still have the most power!

nothing more than a ponzi representation of the delusion of utopia.

There's no real solution to that unless you reduce the power of "money" & in today's world, where everyone wants to get rich, it's not gonna happen ever

 

[DrMrLordX]

You didn't answer the question: Show us how to access a Crypto wallet without electricity or internet.

I just did. The way to do it is to travel to some place where there is electricity or Internet. If you believe that's somehow an invalid response then that's your problem. Meanwhile, miners with huge warehouses full of ASICs or dGPUs can't just up and move their operation someplace else on the spur of the moment. That stuff can be smuggled out under some circustances, but at the very least you're going to need time and a truck. And someplace else to set up shop.

Crossing the border to get power/internet doesn't answer the question.

Yes it does. If your entire country is so dysfunctional that it has no electricity and Internet access of any kind, then the correct response is to leave the country. Unless you plan on fighting to take things over and restoring those things to your countrymen.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

In reality crypto's worse than the absolute worst fiat in the most failed states. All Musk has to do is open his piehole and it loses 20% within hours.

At the very least, worthless paper notes can be used as wallpaper. It'll be kind of hard to find any use for failed crypto...

 

[ultimatebob]

You didn't answer the question: Show us how to access a Crypto wallet without electricity or internet.

Crossing the border to get power/internet doesn't answer the question. The question is very simple English. Which part would you like me to clarify for you?

The fact is crypto is far more brittle (and unstable) compared to fiat - nothing more than a ponzi representation of the delusion of utopia.


Because cryptobros tell us fiat is bad because of inflation and that 'coins will "solve" that.

Cryptobros also tell us fiat is bad because it prints money, yet we have 8000+ different "coins" that appeared from whatever orifice they're imagined. And tethers get printed and printed like the energizer bunny.

In reality crypto's worse than the absolute worst fiat in the most failed states. All Musk has to do is open his piehole and it loses 20% within hours.


Interesting, so the fees are also paid in fiat? But..but...why don't they accept doggies, catties, or more Ether? Oh that's right, because all crypto is intrinsically worthless.

We're going to solve the problems with fiat...by converting crypto back to fiat! - cryptobros.

Comically farcical, akin to a child's reasoning.

The fees are paid in crypto. So, if you're paying 1 ETH of something, it would actually cost you something like 1.005 ETH once you add in the transfer fee.

The fees usually show a cash equivalent during the transaction, though, because you would otherwise have to do the math to know that you just spent $15 to transfer your $3000 worth of Ethereum. Which is high by modern banking standards.

 

[beginner99]

You didn't answer the question: Show us how to access a Crypto wallet without electricity or internet.

Crossing the border to get power/internet doesn't answer the question. The question is very simple English. Which part would you like me to clarify for you?

The fact is crypto is far more brittle (and unstable) compared to fiat - nothing more than a ponzi representation of the delusion of utopia.

If it's that bad you lack electricity and internet, then your fiat is most likley worth nothing as you are in the middle of a war or live in North Korea. So essentially yes you leave the country or fight in the war. The issue with fiat is that it can easily be stolen or confiscated and it takes space and is rather heavy. In case of such huge emergency you can memorize the seed phrase of your wallet and if you don't trust yourself write it on a piece of paper (obfuscated like change the order) and sew it into the seam of your jacket.

To be fair if there is some large scale war, yes it won't matter crypto or fiat will be worthless.

 

[BFG10K]

Kim Kardashian and Floyd Mayweather sued for promoting an alleged crypto pump and dump scheme

EthereumMax, which has no connection to Ethereum, saw its price skyrocket early in 2021 when its initial trading price of $0.00000006 (on May 16) jumped over 1,000%...

www.techspot.com

But EthereumMax’s price fell 98% the day after Kardashian’s post and continued to plummet, eventually dropping below its starting value. It’s alleged that the coin’s creators sold their tokens before the drop, as shown by their wallet addresses, making a lot of money in the process and leaving investors holding nearly worthless crypto.

"EthereumMax", LMFAO. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Well actually you can.

For the next imaginary pump & dump I think I'll make EthereumDoggie, EthereumMonkey, and EthereumDonkey. All three have value because I say they do, yo!

"Fiat is bad because they keep making more of it, which devalues it!" -cryptobros

 

[ultimatebob]

Kim Kardashian and Floyd Mayweather sued for promoting an alleged crypto pump and dump scheme

EthereumMax, which has no connection to Ethereum, saw its price skyrocket early in 2021 when its initial trading price of $0.00000006 (on May 16) jumped over 1,000%...

www.techspot.com

"EthereumMax", LMFAO. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Well actually you can.

For the next imaginary pump & dump I think I'll make EthereumDoggie, EthereumMonkey, and EthereumDonkey. All three have value because I say they do, yo!

"Fiat is bad because they keep making more of it, which devalues it!" -cryptobros

The real question is if Kim Kardashian and Floyd Mayweather sold their crypto at the high water mark before the crash. If they did, they might have been in on the scam.

I might watch a "Kim Kardashian in prison" reality show... that will be good TV right there

 

[fleshconsumed]

You didn't answer the question: Show us how to access a Crypto wallet without electricity or internet.

Crossing the border to get power/internet doesn't answer the question. The question is very simple English. Which part would you like me to clarify for you?

The fact is crypto is far more brittle (and unstable) compared to fiat - nothing more than a ponzi representation of the delusion of utopia.

LOL, as if you'd be able to access your US dollar or brokerage holdings without electricity or internet. I don't know about you, but the only cash I have is about $100 in twenties in my wallet. That's it. If there is no electricity or internet I can't do anything either. In a certain way reliance on electricity and internet does make transacting in "cash" more brittle, but the resulting efficiencies completely outweigh any downsides. The blockchains are no different. It's called progress.

Because cryptobros tell us fiat is bad because of inflation and that 'coins will "solve" that.

Cryptobros also tell us fiat is bad because it prints money, yet we have 8000+ different "coins" that appeared from whatever orifice they're imagined. And tethers get printed and printed like the energizer bunny.

In reality crypto's worse than the absolute worst fiat in the most failed states. All Musk has to do is open his piehole and it loses 20% within hours.

You have to realize that the cryptobros you listen to are hardcore libertarians who wish to return to gold standard and see crypto as a way to achieve it. They're a bunch of lunatics who know nothing of what they talk about, and you shouldn't really listen to them.

Interesting, so the fees are also paid in fiat? But..but...why don't they accept doggies, catties, or more Ether? Oh that's right, because all crypto is intrinsically worthless.

We're going to solve the problems with fiat...by converting crypto back to fiat! - cryptobros.

Comically farcical, akin to a child's reasoning.

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them, so no, crypto is not worthless right now. The correct question to ask is whether the current valuation is justified by fundamentals or not. As or right now I'd say that most blockchain projects are absurdly valued and that it is not supported by real world use. However, things are accelerating, and I'm excited to see what becomes of blockchain in 5 to 10 years.

 

[Mopetar]

You didn't answer the question: Show us how to access a Crypto wallet without electricity or internet.

Crossing the border to get power/internet doesn't answer the question. The question is very simple English. Which part would you like me to clarify for you?

I can see what your getting at, but without electricity or internet, traditional currency is just as out of reach. If the power is out at your bank, they probably don't have much capacity to handle transactions or even let you withdraw cash. Even if they would, they may still not be able to if they're out of cash.

Some years ago I went through a drive through and was told they couldn't take any orders due to an issue with the PoS system not connecting. I said I could pay in cash, but it didn't matter. Even though they could still make the food just having that system down meant they were turning away business.

The point that people are making us that because crypto exists outside of a centralized system it's possible to escape from an oppressive system with that wealth. I'm sure many Uyghur people would be happy enough to just get out of China right now, but any financial assets would have to be left behind. China won't let those out, but they can't touch crypto like that.

 

[beginner99]

Kim Kardashian and Floyd Mayweather sued for promoting an alleged crypto pump and dump scheme

EthereumMax, which has no connection to Ethereum, saw its price skyrocket early in 2021 when its initial trading price of $0.00000006 (on May 16) jumped over 1,000%...

www.techspot.com

"EthereumMax", LMFAO. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Well actually you can.

For the next imaginary pump & dump I think I'll make EthereumDoggie, EthereumMonkey, and EthereumDonkey. All three have value because I say they do, yo!

"Fiat is bad because they keep making more of it, which devalues it!" -cryptobros

scams are scams. don't pretend there aren't scams with stocks or hell the 2008 crisis which basically was banks scamming people with worthless dept paper things 1000x times more complex and illogical than crypto and that in the trillions.

 

[ultimatebob]

scams are scams. don't pretend there aren't scams with stocks or hell the 2008 crisis which basically was banks scamming people with worthless dept paper things 1000x times more complex and illogical than crypto and that in the trillions.

Scams always like to follow the latest technology, mostly because they know that people don't know it well enough to tell the difference between a legit piece of new technology and a scam.

Back when Android phones were new, people used to make fake bank applications for stealing bank username and password credentials. Now, it's just easier to con somebody into providing their private key to their crypto wallets.

 

[BFG10K]

scams are scams.

ALL crypto coin is a scam. All of it. Every MonkeyDoggieEtherMax coin ever made or that ever will be.

The only difference between Ethereum and EthereumMax(tm) is that the whales have bailed and cashed out in the latter, while in the former they're still pulling the strings and waiting for the right time.

 

[DrMrLordX]

ALL crypto coin is a scam.

Except the ones that aren't.

 

[BFG10K]

Except the ones that aren't.

That would be 0%.