The ACORN employees' misbehavior put in perspective

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: JKing106
Why are the Republicans so afraid of an organization that exists to get poor people to vote?

why are you defending a corrupt organization that is publicly funded

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: JKing106
Why are the Republicans so afraid of an organization that exists to get poor people to vote?

Your question answers itself: Because ACORN exists to help poor people register to vote, and then helps them get to the polls, where they vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.

In other words, the far right - having had their literacy tests and other obstacles to the voting poor thrown out decades ago, and having seen which way the political winds are blowing - desperately needs to find other ways to stop the poor from voting.

What good that ACORN may have been doing has been overshadowed by their operational practices.

Suspicions have abounded for years on their operations and this has become the straw that breaks the camels back.

When the story first broke; people were will to give the doubt of it as an isolated incident. However, with multiple locations showing the pattern; it is indicative of a management and/or corporation policy.

Then the denials and politicians backing of the organization started to play CYA & deflection rather than acknowledging that there is a problem just digs the hole deeper.

When people start to deny that which is in front of them, it creates suspicion on what is currently not exposed.

I'm still waiting for the Right-wing organization that helps poor people to vote. OMG they have received $54 million over 15 years. Meanwhile we cannot account for billions "lost" in Iraq. Which is a bigger problem?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: marincounty
I'm still waiting for the Right-wing organization that helps poor people to vote. OMG they have received $54 million over 15 years. Meanwhile we cannot account for billions "lost" in Iraq. Which is a bigger problem?

For Republicans who have aligned their policies with the wealthy against the poor, the answer it pretty clear about the million poor Americans being added to the voting rolls.

Which oh by the way may have played some role in the 2006/2008 elections overcoming the Republicans' 'K Street project' to grab all the corporate money they could.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Craig - where did you get that info about how many ACORN offices the crew visited, by the way? Link?

Oh, yeah - you just made it up.

 

[Modelworks]

The thing that bothers me with ACORN is the lack of organization. You have a taxpayer receiving group that has time and again found to be breaking tax laws, charitable organization laws, and the inability to provide details on exactly where their funding is spent. They have 270+ organizations making up ACORN. It is so convoluted that members were able to embezzle money , get caught and then quietly exit while other members paid the money back that the ex-members stole. A few months ago people on the board of ACORN wanted all funding stopped because they themselves could not tell how the money was being spent. Looking at how ACORN is structured it is like some really clever people got together and looked at what government funding was available , then formed a slew of organizations to receive that money and place it under one roof. Nobody in the government is any the wiser because all they see is the many small organizations receiving money, not the bank account where they are all being deposited. I would have though that the government would have sense enough to know when all these organizations have checks going to the same PO box that something was wrong., guess that is asking for too much.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Craig - where did you get that info about how many ACORN offices the crew visited, by the way? Link?

Oh, yeah - you just made it up.

Police reports that are starting to surface.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909160003

 

[PJABBER]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Craig - where did you get that info about how many ACORN offices the crew visited, by the way? Link?

Oh, yeah - you just made it up.

Police reports that are starting to syrface.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909160003

Perhaps this entire affair needs to be taken up by the U.S. Department of Justice...

ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell
Monday, September 21, 2009

Ken Klukowski co-authored this piece

Ken Blackwell is a former undersecretary at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and current senior fellow at the Family Research Council and a visiting professor at Liberty University School of Law. Ken Klukowski is a fellow and senior legal analyst with the American Civil Rights Union.

In the wake of Fox News reporting on the unfolding ACORN scandal, ACORN is now threatening to sue the network. Now that Fox is actually breaking news on this story by showing new videos, ACORN might just do it. Fox News should pray that ACORN does sue, because it would blow the doors off this story, possibly destroying ACORN and erupting into a political scandal in Washington.

As bizarre as it seems, ACORN is threatening to sue Fox for reporting on these incriminating videotapes. Glenn Beck broke news with a new tape on Monday, and Sean Hannity might be doing the same shortly. Evidently, ACORN is accusing Fox of coordinating with the filmmakers, arguing that somehow these reports make Fox legally liable.

ACORN?s unavoidable problem, however, is that suing Fox News would give Fox ? or any other media organization ? the ultimate Christmas present: a legally enforceable way to compel ACORN to give up all its secrets.

The process by which a party to a lawsuit can force the opposing party to disclose information is called discovery, which can take the form of depositions, written questions, or demands for the production of documents. Under federal rules, a defendant can get court orders for discovery for any information relevant to its defense, except for privileged information such as attorney-client discussions.

If ACORN sues, it would have to sue alleging some variation of defamation or fraud. The problem is that for either allegation, truth is an absolute defense. Nothing could be more relevant to Fox establishing its defense of truth in the lawsuit than having access to ACORN?s office memos, emails, phone records, and bank statements. All of these would have a reasonable chance of providing evidence as to whether ACORN workers had knowledge of any of the topics seen on the videotapes.

In short, it would blow the doors off ACORN?s vault of secrets. Fox would learn which organizations collaborate with ACORN, how they spend taxpayer money and what ACORN?s leaders say to each other behind closed doors. It would be a treasure trove for a media organization.

It could also become a massive political scandal in Washington. Two of the individuals on ACORN?s eight-member advisory board include John Podesta (the chairman of President Obama?s transition team after the election) and Andrew Stern, the president of SEIU who is intimately involved with the White House on numerous issues, including the health care plan. Some Democratic elected and appointed officials also have close ties with ACORN.

While it?s certainly possible that none of these public officials have any knowledge of criminal activities by ACORN workers, it would be embarrassing to have their names associated with the investigation. Does ACORN really want to open Pandora?s box by suing a media company when these things would be at stake?

It?s not surprising that ACORN is considering lawsuits out of desperation, including suits against the intrepid reporters who filmed these tapes, and against Big Government, the new political website by online media guru Andrew Breitbart that first broke this story and has been the leading source for continuing developments.

(Not that any of them should be overly concerned, either. They would have no trouble collecting vast sums for a legal defense team and would have a good chance at winning on the merits in any such lawsuit. And again, their discovery efforts would give Big Government reams of material for new stories. In short, they would become heroes to the national conservative movement for helping bring down ACORN.)

So ACORN?s legal actions would be its undoing. The resulting exposure would explode into a national story that even sympathetic media outlets could no longer ignore, bedeviling ACORN?s allies at SEIU and even dragging top advisers to President Barack Obama into humiliating legal proceedings.

And once top ACORN officials were put on the witness stand under oath, who knows what the American taxpayer would learn?

It would be one huge, ongoing scoop for Fox. And their ratings would soar, as ACORN sinks beneath the waves.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: JKing106
Why are the Republicans so afraid of an organization that exists to get poor people to vote? Hmmm...

they've done a bang up job getting dead people to vote too.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: JKing106

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JKing106
Why are the Republicans so afraid of an organization that exists to get poor people to vote?

No one's answered yet. Why are they afraid of poor people voting? We know the answer. I just want to hear you sheep admit it. Come on, it's easy.

Because ACORN registered over a million people in the last election, which is GOOD for people who are principled and value democracy.

But because some on the right prefer that their votes count for more and other groups don't vote, they are out to get ACORN.

Oh, I know Craig. I want one of our resident Neocon ass-kissers to tell us the truth. About how the poor are peasants, and don't deserve the same "rights" as the wealthy. About how the poor are nothing but leeches, and "want mah money!" About how they're afraid if the poor got a little money in their pockets like the middle class in the 50's and 60's, they'll start to get "uppity," and not bend over like they had to on the recent "bailout" caused by the Neocons. I just want one them to not talk bullshit talking points, and just admit it.

You two should really get a room.

 

[PJABBER]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: JKing106

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JKing106
Why are the Republicans so afraid of an organization that exists to get poor people to vote?

No one's answered yet. Why are they afraid of poor people voting? We know the answer. I just want to hear you sheep admit it. Come on, it's easy.

Because ACORN registered over a million people in the last election, which is GOOD for people who are principled and value democracy.

But because some on the right prefer that their votes count for more and other groups don't vote, they are out to get ACORN.

Oh, I know Craig. I want one of our resident Neocon ass-kissers to tell us the truth. About how the poor are peasants, and don't deserve the same "rights" as the wealthy. About how the poor are nothing but leeches, and "want mah money!" About how they're afraid if the poor got a little money in their pockets like the middle class in the 50's and 60's, they'll start to get "uppity," and not bend over like they had to on the recent "bailout" caused by the Neocons. I just want one them to not talk bullshit talking points, and just admit it.

You two should really get a room.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Siddhartha]

Even before the election, the GOP had a hardon for ACORN and I am sure that the GOP and its talking heads will continue to give ACORN special attention.

ACORN should be investigated to see what is going on.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: JKing106
Why are the Republicans so afraid of an organization that exists to get poor people to vote?

Your question answers itself: Because ACORN exists to help poor people register to vote, and then helps them get to the polls, where they vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.

In other words, the far right - having had their literacy tests and other obstacles to the voting poor thrown out decades ago, and having seen which way the political winds are blowing - desperately needs to find other ways to stop the poor from voting.

What good that ACORN may have been doing has been overshadowed by their operational practices.

Suspicions have abounded for years on their operations and this has become the straw that breaks the camels back.

When the story first broke; people were will to give the doubt of it as an isolated incident. However, with multiple locations showing the pattern; it is indicative of a management and/or corporation policy.

Then the denials and politicians backing of the organization started to play CYA & deflection rather than acknowledging that there is a problem just digs the hole deeper.

When people start to deny that which is in front of them, it creates suspicion on what is currently not exposed.

I'm still waiting for the Right-wing organization that helps poor people to vote. OMG they have received $54 million over 15 years. Meanwhile we cannot account for billions "lost" in Iraq. Which is a bigger problem?

If an organization already exists to help poor people vote, why are you waiting for another one to pop up? The left doesn't have an organization to defend the 2nd amendment, does that mean that everyone on the left is against the 2nd amendment?

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: PJABBER

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Craig - where did you get that info about how many ACORN offices the crew visited, by the way? Link?

Oh, yeah - you just made it up.

Police reports that are starting to syrface.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909160003

Perhaps this entire affair needs to be taken up by the U.S. Department of Justice...

ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell
Monday, September 21, 2009

Ken Klukowski co-authored this piece

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box

Let see the videographer and FOX failed to research the claims of one of the people they secretly video taped. If they had they would have found that the claims where not even close to the truth. They publized these claims on national TV.

A lawsuit might ber just the ticket. Would be intereesting to see what discovery drags up about the videographers and FOX!

ACORN will stand or fall on its own. The videographers and FOX are already falling on theirs!

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PJABBER
[ ... ]
ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell ...

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box ...

Yeah, PJ does that when he wants to mask the bias of his right-wing sources. By the way, if the name Ken Blackwell rings a bell, it's because he's a die-hard Republican and the former Ohio Secretary of State who did everything he could to rig the state's election for Bush. It's no wonder he's writing hit pieces against ACORN. He abused his position in Ohio to disenfranchise the very same poor and inner city people ACORN works to register.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PJABBER
[ ... ]
ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell ...

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box ...

Yeah, PJ does that when he wants to mask the bias of his right-wing sources. By the way, if the name Ken Blackwell rings a bell, it's because he's a die-hard Republican and the former Ohio Secretary of State who did everything he could to rig the state's election for Bush. It's no wonder he's writing hit pieces against ACORN. He abused his position in Ohio to disenfranchise the very same poor and inner city people ACORN works to register.

The name Blackwell is well known.

This is getting more interesting. Turns out that the ACORN employee contacted the Police about the incident.

http://www.google.com/hostedne...1xFUGcYvhOcLAD9AS3CUO0

So ACORN employee contacts Police about possible illegal activity. The videoographers and FOX fail to contact Police over possible illegal activity! And ACORN is being villified?

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PJABBER
[ ... ]
ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell ...

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box ...

Yeah, PJ does that when he wants to mask the bias of his right-wing sources. By the way, if the name Ken Blackwell rings a bell, it's because he's a die-hard Republican and the former Ohio Secretary of State who did everything he could to rig the state's election for Bush. It's no wonder he's writing hit pieces against ACORN. He abused his position in Ohio to disenfranchise the very same poor and inner city people ACORN works to register.

The name Blackwell is well known.

This is getting more interesting. Turns out that the ACORN employee contacted the Police about the incident.

http://www.google.com/hostedne...1xFUGcYvhOcLAD9AS3CUO0

So ACORN employee contacts Police about possible illegal activity. The videoographers and FOX fail to contact Police over possible illegal activity! And ACORN is being villified?

National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling.

So he contacted his cousin, instead of contacting the police right afterwards. Sooooooooooooo believable...............

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PJABBER
[ ... ]
ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell ...

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box ...

Yeah, PJ does that when he wants to mask the bias of his right-wing sources. By the way, if the name Ken Blackwell rings a bell, it's because he's a die-hard Republican and the former Ohio Secretary of State who did everything he could to rig the state's election for Bush. It's no wonder he's writing hit pieces against ACORN. He abused his position in Ohio to disenfranchise the very same poor and inner city people ACORN works to register.

The name Blackwell is well known.

This is getting more interesting. Turns out that the ACORN employee contacted the Police about the incident.

http://www.google.com/hostedne...1xFUGcYvhOcLAD9AS3CUO0

So ACORN employee contacts Police about possible illegal activity. The videoographers and FOX fail to contact Police over possible illegal activity! And ACORN is being villified?

err from the article: "National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling"


he didnt call the police. he called his cousin for advice. there is a big diffrence.

while i do believe the majority of Acorn people are good, honest hardworking people. there is enough to justify the investigation. i also have to slightly agree with pjabber about them sueing fox. that would not be a good decision.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PJABBER
[ ... ]
ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell ...

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box ...

Yeah, PJ does that when he wants to mask the bias of his right-wing sources. By the way, if the name Ken Blackwell rings a bell, it's because he's a die-hard Republican and the former Ohio Secretary of State who did everything he could to rig the state's election for Bush. It's no wonder he's writing hit pieces against ACORN. He abused his position in Ohio to disenfranchise the very same poor and inner city people ACORN works to register.

The name Blackwell is well known.

This is getting more interesting. Turns out that the ACORN employee contacted the Police about the incident.

http://www.google.com/hostedne...1xFUGcYvhOcLAD9AS3CUO0

So ACORN employee contacts Police about possible illegal activity. The videoographers and FOX fail to contact Police over possible illegal activity! And ACORN is being villified?

err from the article: "National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling"

You aren't getting any of those straws your grasping at!

he didnt call the police. he called his cousin for advice. there is a big diffrence.

while i do believe the majority of Acorn people are good, honest hardworking people. there is enough to justify the investigation. i also have to slightly agree with pjabber about them sueing fox. that would not be a good decision.

Actually the article goes on to say that "The detective consulted another police official who served on a federal human smuggling task force, who said he needed more details."

Sounds like contacting the Police to me.

It still comes down to the videographers and FOX FAILED to contact the Police and the ACORM employee did contact the Police.

 

[QuantumPion]

"The nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it's the seriousness of the charge that matters."

 

[PJABBER]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PJABBER
[ ... ]
ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell ...

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box ...

Yeah, PJ does that when he wants to mask the bias of his right-wing sources. By the way, if the name Ken Blackwell rings a bell, it's because he's a die-hard Republican and the former Ohio Secretary of State who did everything he could to rig the state's election for Bush. It's no wonder he's writing hit pieces against ACORN. He abused his position in Ohio to disenfranchise the very same poor and inner city people ACORN works to register.

Why would I want to mask the source of my quoted references? You are right in that I link the http location of almost everything I quote, but sometimes I am in a rush in my real life and, in multi-tasking, don't. I do, however, always link in threads that I originate. I find that only fair to those who would like to engage in debate.

There are three or four separate threads on the ACORN scandal in circulation and I thought Blackwell's commentary was applicable in a discussion of blowback.

I actually saw the commentary when it was first published (9/18/09 5:04 AM EDT) on POLITICO, a liberal compendium founded by former Washington Post staff. I like to check there fairly regularly as they have staff actively covering DC so sometimes they actually break news rather than regurgitate someone elses stuff.

I saw the story elsewhere, but I can't exactly recall where, as it was being passed around various editorial sites, maybe RealClearPolitics (one of the best places for getting polling data and the site that got me back into tracking politics!) but eventually I did get it from Town Hall, maybe because I had the page up at the moment. Though they are usually last on my surfing list being almost completely opinion rather than a mix of news and opinion. Well, not really last as I reserve HuffandPuff Post and DailyGross for that, so little of substance in those sites but amusing to see the thinking that twists so many with so little!

Thanks for caring enough to do a full investigation!

I find knowing about the author is much more important than who published a particular piece, which is why I am usually the only poster here that includes some biographical information in addition to links to the original story.

Here is a short bio from Wiki to elaborate -

John Kenneth Blackwell (born February 28, 1948 in Cincinnati, Ohio) is a former secretary of state of the U.S. state of Ohio who made an unsuccessful bid as the Republican nominee for Governor of Ohio in the 2006 election. He was the first African-American to be the candidate for governor of a major party in Ohio. He is currently Vice Chairman of the Republican National Committee's Platform Committee and was a candidate for chairman of the Republican National Committee. (Another black conservative competing with black conservative Michael Steele, who eventually won. PJ)

Blackwell gained national prominence for his dual roles as Chief Elections Official of Ohio and honorary co-chair of the "Committee to re-elect George W. Bush" during the 2004 election. Allegations of conflict of interest and voter disenfranchisement led to the filing of at least sixteen related lawsuits naming Blackwell. Regarding voter disenfranchisement, a federal appellate court ruled, in agreement with Blackwell, that provisional ballots cast in the wrong polling location should not be counted in the election, but the court overturned his directive to poll workers that they refuse to issue provisional ballots unless satisfied as to the voter's residence. Blackwell was also named in a 2006 lawsuit related to his office's public disclosure of the Social Security numbers of Ohio residents.

A staunch conservative, Blackwell successfully led the campaign for the 2004 Ohio Constitution Amendment banning state recognition of same sex marriage and civil unions, despite opposition from many other Republican leaders. He is a proponent of gun ownership rights, and has stated that he is against abortion except in order to protect the life of the mother. He was defeated by Ted Strickland in the 2006 Ohio gubernatorial election.

BTW, MUCH more stuff coming out on ACORN, SEIU and friends. Stay tuned!

 

[Craig234]

I'm not too familiar with Politico, but the Washington Post is more right than left, and Politico appears to be a 'moderate' site at a glance.

Following is a sample of its current front page with dozens of topics - which are the stories that are 'liberal'? The ones I scanned were about things right-wingers were saying.

Ken Blackwell is a scumbag who practiced vote suppression and was blocked by courts.

Who leaked Bob Woodward's exclusive on a 66-page report from McChrystal to Obama? (Composite image by POLITICO)x


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[Carmen813]

The entire situation regarding Fox and Acorn reeks of entrapment. I'm sure if I took a video camera and reporter into enough bank offices this time last year, I'd find plenty of unethical behavior. This idea that you can condemn an entire organization because of the actions of the few repulses me. Should I be hating the U.S. military for what happened at Abu Graib? Are all Conservatives bad because I dislike Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield? Is all of the media bad because the major players are so biased? Are all "family values politicians" full of it because so many have been caught cheating on their wives?

This sort of generalization repulses me.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: JKing106
Why are the Republicans so afraid of an organization that exists to get poor people to vote? Hmmm...

they've done a bang up job getting dead people to vote too.

And illegal aliens.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PJABBER
[ ... ]
ACORN could open Pandora's box
Ken Blackwell ...

I normally assume from the lack of a link that you wrote the article! But, that appears not to be the case so here let me help -

http://townhall.com/columnists...ould_open_pandoras_box ...

Yeah, PJ does that when he wants to mask the bias of his right-wing sources. By the way, if the name Ken Blackwell rings a bell, it's because he's a die-hard Republican and the former Ohio Secretary of State who did everything he could to rig the state's election for Bush. It's no wonder he's writing hit pieces against ACORN. He abused his position in Ohio to disenfranchise the very same poor and inner city people ACORN works to register.

The name Blackwell is well known.

This is getting more interesting. Turns out that the ACORN employee contacted the Police about the incident.

http://www.google.com/hostedne...1xFUGcYvhOcLAD9AS3CUO0

So ACORN employee contacts Police about possible illegal activity. The videoographers and FOX fail to contact Police over possible illegal activity! And ACORN is being villified?

National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling.

So he contacted his cousin, instead of contacting the police right afterwards. Sooooooooooooo believable...............

Looks like a CYA move to me.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Craig234
I'm not too familiar with Politico, but the Washington Post is more right than left, and Politico appears to be a 'moderate' site at a glance.

Doesnt invalidate the story.