blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Maybe the board has an ignore feature I was unaware of. I read them, and clearly said so in my first post.
*shrug* not that it matters.
Wait - Craig totally makes up information, I call him on his BS, and you can *me* a twit? Pathetic.
Since *you* seem to know, how many offices did they visit? Or are you going to be a blinders-on partisan hack, too?
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
So we see video on the misconduct of a number ACORN personel, yet that doesn't mean all ACORN people are corrupt.
But we have people here constantly digging up YouTube vids of a few nutty people at TEA Parties, but in this case it does prove all TEA Party people are nutty?
It's cool how that works.
Fern
But we have people here constantly digging up YouTube vids of a few nutty people at TEA Parties, but in this case it does prove all TEA Party people are nutty?
It's cool how that works.
Fern
I think you'll have to admit that the very basis of the TEA party, "Taxed Enough Already," is rather dishonest considering the fact that no one's taxes have been increased between Bush leaving office and now. It's an angry, disenfranchised, fringe group looking for a reason to be pissed off, but they haven't quite landed on anything of substance yet.
If that doesn't strike you as nutty, perhaps your own bias is clouding your judgment.
It's too bad that you have crossed the line to not be honest in your arguments before this.
First, do you want to question that ACORN as an organization - which has gotten rid of the people who did this, who has laid out a major reform plan to prevent it next time - that the tens of thousands of employees who had nothing to do with it, against whom there is no evidence for anything like it - are somehow implicated by the actions of this handful - was it 2? 3? 4? I haven't watched it, just seen the descriptions of the behavior of two people - of people? You can't make a case for that. So let's get you on record on that.
And let's recall that the other people they tried to get to do wrong did not.
So, your little snearing insinuation against ACRON presumably gone, the other part of your question is, how about the 'few nutty people' at the teabag events implicating many there?
The thing is, the tea bag event have a quality to them that's far more pervasive than one incident with two or so people - there are hundreds, thousands, who are displaying what you refer to as 'nutty' actions with the Hitler and Joker signs and such; interviews with many people there randomly sampled reflect the views described, backed up by the polls, showing how many are 'birthers' and other radicals.
And yet, the media reports I've seen in liberal media have generally included mention that many at the events are not like that. I've seen detailed reports of other types at the events, complimenting them, their fair discussion. The coverage I've seen has been a lot more balanced than you describe, and the critical portions seem backed up by the facts.
So you are the one making the false comparison between one very small occurance at ACORN and the far more pervasive behavior you exaggerate the media's criticism of.
You don't have a point, you are just trying to create a phony issue.
You have to look at the situation more honestly - for example, what's the evidence of higher ups backing something? In more hierarchical, disciplined organizations, in organizations with an agenda for wrong - say, the Reagan adminstration wanting to arm the Contra terrorists and Congress saying 'no' - unlike ACORN who has no organizational agenda for supporting pimps - there's a stronger implications by the behavior of an underling. There's no evidence of any ACORN higher level support for this.
You are just not being honest, and that's pretty despicable.
Forgte it. We're keeping moveon.org. I think the squirells would far prefer the nuts in the teabaggers.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,918
- 2,883
- 136
So I guess we should over look any wrongdoing that the US military commits because they "exist to protect us", right? Why are liberals afraid of an organization that exists to protect women and children? That's the argument I'll be using every time you morons start bashing the military. Thanks dipshit.
Edit - haha, this POS must think I'm a neocon too, fail.
What the fuck are you talking about? Non sequitur much? ACORN and the US Armed Forces have absolutely nothing in common. From what I've seen over the last 8 years, more women and children have been killed than protected. R**head civilians don't count, though, do they? We gotta keep our Walmarts safe! Gotta keep China happy!
I have no idea if you're a Neocon. I do know you're a fucking moron, though. The two do go together.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,918
- 2,883
- 136
The reason that the US Military exists is to protect this country. Why are you afraid of an organization that exists to protect this country?
Looks like you just proved my point. You're not criticizing them when they are doing things to protect this country, you're criticizing them when you think they've done something wrong. People aren't criticizing ACORN when they help poor people vote, they're criticizing ACORN when they think they've done something wrong.
The military is not above criticism just because they exist for our defense and ACORN is not above criticism just because "they exist to help poor people vote". Thanks for playing.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
whats funny is that you slam the gop for fear-mongering and smear campaigns when the Dems are doing the same. It seems to be the great new tactic of politics.
i have no trouble with Acorn being investigated. there is enough evidance to warrent it. Since they are getting billions (or were) of taxpayer money we should be confident they are clean and fire those that are currupt.
I doubt Acorn is currupt from bottom up. but something in teh org really stinks and i sure don't want my taxpayer going to help people break the law and setup underage sex shops.
I do agree with Fern. i think its funny how people say just becuse there are a few in Acorn that are currupt does not make Acorn itself currupt (wich i do agree with) but teh same people say that ALL members of teh "tea party" are idiots and racist (wich i do agree some are).
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Absolutely agree, the Dems use similar tactics at times. The difference I see is in scale and the GOP's wholesale disregard for the truth. In general, while I see the Dems stretching the truth and lying by omission, the GOP seems to embrace blatant dishonesty as a first line of attack. While neither is honorable, one is worse than the other.
I believe it was "only" millions (you're thinking of Halliburton ;-) ). I agree an investigation is warranted. As I've said from the beginning, it's apparent ACORN has management issues and needs to do a thorough housecleaning.
I would point out there are countless organizations receiving government funding that have had members accused of criminal activity. The right has been extremely selective in recognizing this, however, getting hysterical over comparatively small-scale incidents like this while dismissing far greater offenses within organizations in favor with the GOP. Two wrongs don't make a right, but one can condemn the actions of some ACORN staffers while also pointing out the partisan hypocrisy of the wing-nuts.
There's some validity to that, though I think it's way overblown. I'm not sure many people are saying ALL of the tea party folks are nuts. I personally see a broad mix of people, from those who are sincerely and reasonably concerned about spending, for example, to those who are truly loons, racists, and/or posturing partisan hacks.
I think it's disingenuous to suggest ACORN is comparable to the tea party movement due to the big difference in scale. There are only a handful of ACORN employees involved, while based on the many pictures, interviews, and sound-bites I've seen, there are at least thousands of loony tea party folks. At some point those who are rationally concerned need to consider whether it's in their interests to associate with the lunatic fringe. Their genuine message tends to get drowned out by the circus around them.
GroundedSailor
Platinum Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 2,502
- 0
- 76
Like you, I had barely heard of ACORN before the election.
There's 2 issues which seem to have pushed ACORN in to prominence and the reviled position it is in.
1. ACORN works to register voters. Given that a lot of election results are within a few percentage (+ or -) of 50, it makes good strategy for any party to try and reduce the number of unfavorable voters who cast votes in the election. Newly registered voters would probably be more keen to exercise their new found right. It is the poor who tend to need help in registering. These voters generally tend to vote Democratic rather than Republican. Therefore republican strategists see ACORN as an organization that benefits the opposition. Hence the attempts to discredit and try and remove ACORN any which way possible.
2. The opposition tried to find something to pull Obama's candidacy down. They tried his race which didn't work. They tried linking him to his Pastor but he distanced himself. They tried linking him to Ayr but that didn't stick enough to stop him winning. So they looked in his history and found vague links to ACORN which they exploited and tried to make ACORN a horrible evil entity and, by extension, paint Obama with the same brush. Unfortunately Obama still won the election. Now those strategists are looking ahead at future elections to try any means of reducing unfavorable voters. Hence the vilification of ACORN continues.
As many have pointed out ACORN, like many organizations, has some bad eggs in the basket. But does that mean their good work should be completely ignored? And concentrate only on the few bad instances?
Lets see... a crooked organization defrauding the country... and Craig defends them. Yup. Par for the course.
shira
Diamond Member
- Jan 12, 2005
- 9,500
- 6
- 81
Your question answers itself: Because ACORN exists to help poor people register to vote, and then helps them get to the polls, where they vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.
In other words, the far right - having had their literacy tests and other obstacles to the voting poor thrown out decades ago, and having seen which way the political winds are blowing - desperately needs to find other ways to stop the poor from voting.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
What good that ACORN may have been doing has been overshadowed by their operational practices.
Suspicions have abounded for years on their operations and this has become the straw that breaks the camels back.
When the story first broke; people were will to give the doubt of it as an isolated incident. However, with multiple locations showing the pattern; it is indicative of a management and/or corporation policy.
Then the denials and politicians backing of the organization started to play CYA & deflection rather than acknowledging that there is a problem just digs the hole deeper.
When people start to deny that which is in front of them, it creates suspicion on what is currently not exposed.
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