That day Elon Musk almost certainly committed a felony... (yesterday)

[Blackjack200]

Tesla appears to be collapsing in on itself.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/10/technology/business/tesla-stock-bonds-elon-musk/index.html

"Tesla is in a cash pinch," Cowen & Co. analyst Jeffrey Osborne said in an interview. "The primary concern — above and beyond doing drugs and whatnot on podcasts — continues to be the ability of the company to generate cash."

lol

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Tesla appears to be collapsing in on itself.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/10/technology/business/tesla-stock-bonds-elon-musk/index.html

I would be remiss if I didn't point out that the interview cited here is with Cowen and Co, the same company recently (MAR2017) infused with cash by CEFC China Energy, "a Chinese conglomerate with big investments in oil in Central Africa".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/business/dealbook/china-us-investment-bank-cowen.html
It's down 7% from last year, wake me when it's in at least double digits.

 

[ponyo]

Elon Musk is a dude no doubt but how many cars does Tesla sell? 100k a year? It seems like a lot but when you look at a single manufacturer like VW it's nothing. It' a tiny drop in the bucket. At this point it isn't even worth them competing with Tesla. What happens when a company like VW decides that they are going to compete with tesla? As in there is enough money in electric for them to get an ROI?

When they or any of the other major car manufacturers decide to invest 10s of billions in building their own high end and/or affordable electric cars it's going to be interesting. Tesla has done well in exploiting a niche. I just hope that in the future they don't get crushed.

Everyone seems to think these legacy automakers can simply turn on a switch and start cranking out EVs by the millions. It doesn't work like that. All the existing factories need to be retooled and converted for electric production. And they need to secure enough low cost batteries. Low cost battery supply is the huge bottleneck. VW is one of the few legacy automakers that seems to understand the enormous battery need and they announced $48 billion battery contracts with the goal of securing enough batteries for 3 million EV vehicles by 2025. VW goal is to convert one of their plant to electric by 2020 and produce 100k electric cars a year from that plant. People here love to make fun of Tesla production problems and how few cars they produce but here's big bad VW targeting 100k EV from that factory in 2020.

Future cars are not just going have to be EV. They're going to have to be smart cars, basically computer on wheels and capable of close to self driving. Just like Tesla had to learn how to make cars, the legacy automakers are going to have to learn how to make EV and learn how to make the car smart. I think the legacy automakers will find out it's harder to make the cars smart like Tesla than Tesla figuring out how to make cars. Tesla can program/do software and hardware, and they're learning manufacturing. But can the legacy automakers who claim they know manufacturing learn to program? My guess is it's harder to learn to program, and it's going to be apparent once the competition cars are released without all the cool features of Tesla cars. Regardless, Tesla is not going to stand still while waiting on competitors. Tesla will keep learning and innovating same as legacy automakers who are trying to catch Tesla. My money and bet is on Tesla succeeding and becoming wildly popular but that's not the popular opinion.

 

[Blackjack200]

Tesla can program/do software and hardware, and they're learning manufacturing. But can the legacy automakers who claim they know manufacturing learn to program? My guess is it's harder to learn to program, and it's going to be apparent once the competition cars are released without all the cool features of Tesla cars. Regardless, Tesla is not going to stand still while waiting on competitors. Tesla will keep learning and innovating same as legacy automakers who are trying to catch Tesla. My money and bet is on Tesla succeeding and becoming wildly popular but that's not the popular opinion.

You know that existing platforms have huge amounts of software already, right? Charlie Miller hacked a Jeep like 4 years ago and remotely controlled its steering, braking and acceleration.

 

[ponyo]

You know that existing platforms have huge amounts of software already, right? Charlie Miller hacked a Jeep like 4 years ago and remotely controlled its steering, braking and acceleration.

Then we should see features similar to Autopilot announced any day now for the Bolt, Kona, iPace, i3, Taycan, EQC, iX3, etron, etc. I mean it's so simple right? So simple these legacy automakers don't want to even bother with it right now since they can program that in single day and have it ready in a flash right? Just like they can turn on a switch and instantly start cranking out EV. Maybe you should change this thread title to "Tesla is doomed."

 

[Blackjack200]

Then we should see features similar to Autopilot announced any day now for the Bolt, Kona, iPace, i3, Taycan, EQC, iX3, etron, etc. I mean it's so simple right? So simple these legacy automakers don't want to even bother with it right now since they can program that in one day and have it ready in a flash right? Just like they can turn on a switch and instantly start cranking out EV. Maybe you should change this thread title to "Tesla is doomed."

I don't think Tesla has some huge lead on autonomous driving, but I guess we'll see.

 

[Josephus312]

You know that existing platforms have huge amounts of software already, right? Charlie Miller hacked a Jeep like 4 years ago and remotely controlled its steering, braking and acceleration.

Yeah but Chryslers suck in every single possible way. No matter what solution they come up with it's always the worst possible and that goes for pretty much everything. The V850 solution was selected because it's the cheapest possible solution there is and that is why the multimedia centre isn't separate from the rest of the system. It could be fixed by simply making the flash system protected and impossible to flash OTA or to set a blank password that the user has to set before starting the car for the first time.

 

[Josephus312]

I don't think Tesla has some huge lead on autonomous driving, but I guess we'll see.

They don't, they have a huge lead in old battery technology which is why they are hellbent on not allowing anyone to use solid state electrolyte sodium batteries on the market. They are trying to buy the patent and ensure that no one gets to use it because such batteries would last 50-100 years without degradation while the investments in the slave labour lithium mines that Tesla owns is their key to success in the battery department.

It's a basic standard of big oil but this is big lithium and it's not turning out the way Musk had hoped which is why he's going off into the deep end of mental instability now and acting like an unmonitored version of Trump where he sends messages about child brides and pedophiles to buzzfeed when he has nothing to back it up.

It's getting kind of pathetic.

Volvo/Geely owns the patents on the sensor/recognition system that Tesla uses for autonomous driving.

 

[ponyo]

I don't think Tesla has some huge lead on autonomous driving, but I guess we'll see.

Yep, Tesla doesn't have huge lead on autonomous driving. They were so behind in this area compared to the legacy automakers that Tesla decided to build their own self-driving hardware chip two years ago and finally got it finished. This new Tesla chip totally sucks and is supposedly only 10 times faster than the current Nvidia chip Tesla is using. https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-self-driving-car-computer-chip-nvidia/ But like you said, Tesla doesn't have any lead on autonomous driving when compared to legacy automakers. Not at all. Because Tesla is doomed!

 

[Josephus312]

Yep, Tesla doesn't have huge lead on autonomous driving. They were so behind in this area compared to the legacy automakers that Tesla decided to build their own self-driving hardware chip two years ago and finally got it finished. This new Tesla chip totally sucks and is supposedly only 10 times faster than the current Nvidia chip Tesla is using. https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-self-driving-car-computer-chip-nvidia/ But like you said, Tesla doesn't have any lead on autonomous driving when compared to legacy automakers. Not at all. Because Tesla is doomed!

The chip is useless without the sensor technology and the software. It's a standard piece of hardware and while more expensive it's less advanced than a ten year old Intel Core Duo.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yep, Tesla doesn't have huge lead on autonomous driving. They were so behind in this area compared to the legacy automakers that Tesla decided to build their own self-driving hardware chip two years ago and finally got it finished. This new Tesla chip totally sucks and is supposedly only 10 times faster than the current Nvidia chip Tesla is using. https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-self-driving-car-computer-chip-nvidia/ But like you said, Tesla doesn't have any lead on autonomous driving when compared to legacy automakers. Not at all. Because Tesla is doomed!

Did you read the article?

 

[repoman0]

Yep, Tesla doesn't have huge lead on autonomous driving. They were so behind in this area compared to the legacy automakers that Tesla decided to build their own self-driving hardware chip two years ago and finally got it finished. This new Tesla chip totally sucks and is supposedly only 10 times faster than the current Nvidia chip Tesla is using. https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-self-driving-car-computer-chip-nvidia/ But like you said, Tesla doesn't have any lead on autonomous driving when compared to legacy automakers. Not at all. Because Tesla is doomed!

Listen, I know you're the biggest Tesla shill on the forums because you own a fuckton of their stock, so maybe you should pick your articles and examples more carefully

I am roughly 9000% sure that nvidia can build a faster and cheaper ML/video/image processing chip than Tesla can.

Musk says the new silicon is an order of magnitude faster than the chips in their cars now, a product developed by NVIDIA, an industry leader and supplier to at least 20 other robocar developers. The NVIDIA chips, Musk says, can deal with 200 frames of video per second, from the cameras around the car. (Unlike most other autonomous vehicle developers, Tesla is determined that cameras are enough to perceive the world, and it doesn’t need the more expensive lidar sensors.) Tesla’s chip can handle 2,000 frames per second, with some spare capacity left for redundancy and safety.

That might be true, but it’s not a Ruffles to Ruffles comparison. “The performance claims are against what they have in the vehicle today, which are three years old,” says NVIDIA’s director of automotive Danny Shapiro. NVIDIA’s latest silicon is at least 10 times faster than that, which would put it on a par with Tesla’s chip.

 

[Blackjack200]

Listen, I know you're the biggest Tesla shill on the forums because you own a fuckton of their stock, so maybe you should pick your articles and examples more carefully

"Tesla Says Its New Self-Driving Chip Is Finally Baked"

Sounds like the company has something in common with its founder.

 

[ponyo]

Listen, I know you're the biggest Tesla shill on the forums because you own a fuckton of their stock, so maybe you should pick your articles and examples more carefully

I am roughly 9000% sure that nvidia can build a faster and cheaper ML/video/image processing chip than Tesla can.

Nvidia is leader in these chips and awesome at what they do. They're going to come out with better and faster chips than Tesla since chips are Nvidia's business. Even Musk admitted as much during the last conference call when he first mentioned Tesla's new superior in-house chip. Musk wanted the new in-house chip because they could customize it fully for their in-house software. Just like Apple, if you control both the hardware and software, you can get superior performance and better control what you want.

You're right I own some of their stock. I wouldn't call it fuckton but I guess that's matter of perspective. You guys believe "Tesla is doomed" so I hope you shorted the stock. I mean why give up on easy money and sure thing. You can make some money as you laugh and shout with glee at Tesla stock going to $0. What kind of moron turns down sure bet at easy money?

 

[Blackjack200]

Nvidia is leader in these chips and awesome at what they do. They're going to come out with better and faster chips than Tesla since chips are Nvidia's business. Even Musk admitted as much during the last conference call when he first mentioned Tesla's new superior in-house chip. Musk wanted the new in-house chip because they could customize it fully for their in-house software. Just like Apple, if you control both the hardware and software, you can get superior performance and better control what you want.

You're right I own some of their stock. I wouldn't call it fuckton but I guess that's matter of perspective. You guys believe "Tesla is doomed" so I hope you shorted the stock. I mean why give up on easy money and sure thing. You can make some money as you laugh and shout with glee at Tesla stock going to $0. What kind of moron turns down sure bet at easy money?

Haha, first people in this thread were accusing me of being short. Now they're daring me to short.

I believe I already stated that I don't invest in individual stocks. There's a famous old saying about the market being able to stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. I'll leave it at that.

 

[ponyo]

Haha, first people in this thread were accusing me of being short. Now they're daring me to short.

I believe I already stated that I don't invest in individual stocks. There's a famous old saying about the market being able to stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. I'll leave it at that.

So you're scared? So you think the stock is going higher? If you listen to MSM and everyone here, Tesla is 100% going bankrupt in 6 months. It's pretty much guaranteed! Easy money! You know Musk is going to jail for fraud and smoking weed. Tesla is doomed!

 

[Blackjack200]

So you're scared? So you think the stock is going higher? If you listen to MSM and everyone here, Tesla is 100% going bankrupt in 6 months. It's pretty much guaranteed! Easy money! You know Musk is going to jail for fraud and smoking weed. Tesla is doomed!

Having a normal one!

 

[Paratus]

Listen, I know you're the biggest Tesla shill on the forums because you own a fuckton of their stock, so maybe you should pick your articles and examples more carefully

I am roughly 9000% sure that nvidia can build a faster and cheaper ML/video/image processing chip than Tesla can.

How long have you been on this site? NVidia and CHEAPER!!1111. Can I have whatever you are smoking?

 

[repoman0]

You're right I own some of their stock. I wouldn't call it fuckton but I guess that's matter of perspective. You guys believe "Tesla is doomed" so I hope you shorted the stock. I mean why give up on easy money and sure thing. You can make some money as you laugh and shout with glee at Tesla stock going to $0. What kind of moron turns down sure bet at easy money?

I don't think Tesla is doomed, I just find Musk fanboys supremely irritating, especially when they feel more like shills than anything else. To the contrary, I've stated in this very thread that I hope they succeed or at least push electric vehicle adoption up a few years, and if they do it will be due to their talented employees, not their idiot CEO.

How long have you been on this site? NVidia and CHEAPER!!1111. Can I have whatever you are smoking?

Ha! Fair enough!

 

[Greenman]

They don't, they have a huge lead in old battery technology which is why they are hellbent on not allowing anyone to use solid state electrolyte sodium batteries on the market. They are trying to buy the patent and ensure that no one gets to use it because such batteries would last 50-100 years without degradation while the investments in the slave labour lithium mines that Tesla owns is their key to success in the battery department.

It's a basic standard of big oil but this is big lithium and it's not turning out the way Musk had hoped which is why he's going off into the deep end of mental instability now and acting like an unmonitored version of Trump where he sends messages about child brides and pedophiles to buzzfeed when he has nothing to back it up.

It's getting kind of pathetic.

Volvo/Geely owns the patents on the sensor/recognition system that Tesla uses for autonomous driving.

I can't find anything that says solid state electrolyte sodium batteries are a workable product at this time, or in the near future. Do you have a link to better information than a google search returns? I'm very curious about the technology.

 

[ponyo]

I don't think Tesla is doomed, I just find Musk fanboys supremely irritating, especially when they feel more like shills than anything else. To the contrary, I've stated in this very thread that I hope they succeed or at least push electric vehicle adoption up a few years, and if they do it will be due to their talented employees, not their idiot CEO.

Do you know what's even more irritating? Having to correct all the crazy misinformation and FUD about Tesla and Musk that's spewed daily by crazy Musk/Tesla haters. It's amazing that on a tech forum, people can be so closed minded about exciting disruptive technology and want see innovative American tech company that makes cars and products in America fail so badly that they're willing to spread incredible FUD and lies. It's like people are so scared Musk is going to take away their precious ICE cars. If you listen to the haters, all the talented people at Tesla already quit and left so it's just their idiot CEO now. So I guess Tesla is doomed.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Then we should see features similar to Autopilot announced any day now for the Bolt, Kona, iPace, i3, Taycan, EQC, iX3, etron, etc. I mean it's so simple right? So simple these legacy automakers don't want to even bother with it right now since they can program that in single day and have it ready in a flash right? Just like they can turn on a switch and instantly start cranking out EV. Maybe you should change this thread title to "Tesla is doomed."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/05/cadillac-super-cruise-autonomous-driving-review.html

They have the software already, but they're not going to put it in an ordinary car when they can use it to promote their flagship models.

 

[cytg111]

This is turning into one of those amd/intel fanboi shitshow threads over in CPUs .. everyone should take a second (cough, black, cough); am I overly emotional on this issue? Should I check myself?

 

[Blackjack200]

This is turning into one of those amd/intel fanboi shitshow threads over in CPUs .. everyone should take a second (cough, black, cough); am I overly emotional on this issue? Should I check myself?

Haha, please quote this overly emotional post you're referring to because I don't see it.

 

[Greenman]

This is turning into one of those amd/intel fanboi shitshow threads over in CPUs .. everyone should take a second (cough, black, cough); am I overly emotional on this issue? Should I check myself?

This is P&N. Has anyone ever checked themselves here?
The main problem is the herd splits differently on "visionary's". There isn't a defined and accepted agenda so we end up with outliers in every direction. Musk runs the scale from Messiah to scammer.
Personally, I think he's 20% Einstein and 80% P.T. Barnum.