That day Elon Musk almost certainly committed a felony... (yesterday)

[hal2kilo]

Heck Trump acts like an asshole everyday and gets away with it. Why not do the over the top routine. Seems to garner a lot of respect in this country.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I'm willing to forgive a lot of nutty behavior for the ass kicking he's giving several entrenched industries who stopped innovating.

I won't because I don't think he's "kicking" ass nearly as much as people think (don't get me wrong, I like that both companies have pushed things but I think people are seriously underestimating the hurdles both face, as well as electric cars and rockets in general; I'm happy for their successes but the next steps are even more challenging but people act like oh its just like Apple bringing out a new iterative iPhone). And now he's outright hurting the companies with his antics, and that could mean a lot of trouble if not deal devastating blows to the progress of this stuff. I think its important to try and do something about this early on before it gets to real breaking point.

I'm not a fan of Musk, but I think both companies would be better for him being involved. I want him to get help and get healthy so he can keep them on track. Musk needs to learn how to delegate, and I think its very telling that they're not finding people to really help him out (and I think the problem there is Musk). I actually think he does this more with SpaceX (and why they're currently operating more smoothly, I think the same was true when he was focused on SpaceX and letting Tesla operate more smoothly). He also needs to learn how to operate in his roles in a healthy manner. Its not good for anyone for him to be strung out and being a jackass.

Something else to keep in mind, this is the stuff that we've seen publicly. I guarantee you that he's done worse in private. I think we'll start hearing stories similar to how people operate around Turmp.

Yes. And I work in banking BTW. Go back 20 years ago and banks were extremely hesitant to move towards online services because of the inherent security risks. Now it's commonplace. Thank Paypal.

Paypal was just doing electronic wire transfers but with a focus on the internet. Its hard to call wire transfers revolutionary. And while certainly they had a leg up online, I think you're revising history because eBay bought them to make them the defacto payment method when eBay was taking off.

And according to wiki, they weren't exactly the only game in town:

competed with eBay's subsidiary Billpoint, as well as Citibank's c2it, Yahoo!'s PayDirect, Google Checkout, and Western Union's BidPay service, all of which closed in subsequent years.

I believe there were dozens of online payment platforms at the time, and it was more about situation than anything. Paypal became big because eBay forced it onto people more than anything. And e-commerce was way bigger than Paypal (the reason most died off is because other options made them pointless, heck even Paypal has been worried about being squeezed out after they lost their real advantage).

That's not to say there weren't valid reasons for their success (Paypal was implemented better than many other services, and the eBay buyout was smart), just that I don't find them to be revolutionary as things were already moving that direction. Kinda like with NFC payment setups. Would you call Apple Pay revolutionary? What about Amazon's secondary market (buy/sell used stuff)? Again, that's not to say its not a significant thing, just not revolutionary to me.

 

[K1052]

wrong thread

 

[woolfe9998]

Musk tokes off a joint on camera during a podcast?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/tes...bizarre-musk-podcast-appearance-cao-exit.html

I don't care about pot smoking. I do it myself. But why would you smoke pot (and drink whiskey) while on camera during a podcast? Why not wait until you get home? Not exactly the sort of thing to bolster investor confidence.

With all this weird stuff, the pedo allegation he made and the rest of it, I think Musk is going through something right now. Probably best if he just keeps his mouth shut until he works through it.

 

[cytg111]

Tesla is defn. kicking the industry in the balls... should have happended long time ago but big oil and lobbying.. Anyway, you'd be a fool not to recognize spacex.. At the end of the day I think we forget that Musk is not this statesman, even less a self percieved one like ie. Trump. He is a geek with a passion for tech and an inspiring tomorrow. A man, fallable like the rest of us.

 

[ponyo]

It was one of the most amazing interview with CEO I've seen. I stayed up late and watch the whole live interview last night. If you haven't watched it, it's worth watching the whole 2.5 hour interview. Elon is going to turn out to be one of the most important person of our generation.

 

[urvile]

Tesla is defn. kicking the industry in the balls... should have happended long time ago but big oil and lobbying.. Anyway, you'd be a fool not to recognize spacex.. At the end of the day I think we forget that Musk is not this statesman, even less a self percieved one like ie. Trump. He is a geek with a passion for tech and an inspiring tomorrow. A man, fallable like the rest of us.

You can also add the fact that major car manufacturers haven't really got onboard with electric yet. It will be interesting to see what happens when massive manufacturers like VW, Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan etc. Actually start competing in that market.

EDIT: VW sold over 3 million cars last year in China alone. Once these companies see electric as a profitable segment rather than a niche. It's going to be madness.

 

[Mai72]

It was one of the most amazing interview with CEO I've seen. I stayed up late and watch the whole live interview last night. If you haven't watched it, it's worth watching the whole 2.5 hour interview. Elon is going to turn out to be one of the most important person of our generation.

I watched part of that interview. I will watch the full vid.

I just think it's stupid to sleep on Elon. Then again, the masses talked sh*t on Ford, Edison, The Wright Brothers, and anyone else who thought outside the box. When we destroy this world it's going to be Elon and his inventions who save us.

 

[urvile]

I watched part of that interview. I will watch the full vid.

I just think it's stupid to sleep on Elon. Then again, the masses talked sh*t on Ford, Edison, The Wright Brothers, and anyone else who thought outside the box. When we destroy this world it's going to be Elon and his inventions who save us.

Ford had a huge influence on car manufacturing. When the Nazis set up VW they used Ford's assembly line concept. Of course some say that wasn't the only way that Ford influenced the Nazis. Being the virulent anti semite that he was.

 

[zinfamous]

I don't see Elon as a genius...he actually seems to be a bit of an idiot. Thing is, he's preposterously wealthy and has a lot of good, but more importantly: useful ideas. He isn't the guy out there doing any of the work, but he knows what he wants. He has a goal and dream, and all of that is great and wonderful. Pretty much 99% of the SV CEOs are brainless morons, tbh. And they are sociopaths to boot. I don't see Elon as the full version of that type, because he is the only one of them that is actually interested in something that is useful for humanity. It's kinda sad to say, but that really is such a low bar, but he still gets props for that. I think most are starry-eyed by his obnoxious South African accent. Americans are known to be absolutely weakened by this non-american English accent. It's a fact, with data, and I think that explains 90% of the Elon worship. ...just like Richard Branson. Lol: look at that guy--a fucking clown.

That being said, he's exposed himself for a fucking fool. End of story. I don't care what the guy says in an interview, I don't care what he thinks about the world or life, because it is abundantly clear that he is no sage of anything. The guy is a goddamn fool. He needs to seek help and right the ship, enlist some aids or bow out to some trusted admins to finish the work that he started. He needs to just sit in a cave, push ideas, spend his money, and shut the fuck up. The guy really doesn't have a single brilliant thing to say in public. No one needs to hear it. ...and yet all of that makes him better than all of his preposterously wealthy peers in SV.

 

[Vic]

Anyway, when you're shorting your own stock...

 

[urvile]

Elon Musk is a dude no doubt but how many cars does Tesla sell? 100k a year? It seems like a lot but when you look at a single manufacturer like VW it's nothing. It' a tiny drop in the bucket. At this point it isn't even worth them competing with Tesla. What happens when a company like VW decides that they are going to compete with tesla? As in there is enough money in electric for them to get an ROI?

When they or any of the other major car manufacturers decide to invest 10s of billions in building their own high end and/or affordable electric cars it's going to be interesting. Tesla has done well in exploiting a niche. I just hope that in the future they don't get crushed.

 

[cytg111]

Elon Musk is a dude no doubt but how many cars does Tesla sell? 100k a year? It seems like a lot but when you look at a single manufacturer like VW it's nothing. It' a tiny drop in the bucket. At this point it isn't even worth them competing with Tesla. What happens when a company like VW decides that they are going to compete with tesla? As in there is enough money in electric for them to get an ROI?

When they or any of the other major car manufacturers decide to invest 10s of billions in building their own high end and/or affordable electric cars it's going to be interesting. Tesla has done well in exploiting a niche. I just hope that in the future they don't get crushed.

I think, in his mind, if that were to happen (Tesla crushed) that would be a success.
1. EVs have taken off, two dimensional transport of the future
2. Personally he will have made a TON of fuckloads of money, money he can pour into rockets, and now he wont have to stress over Tesla no more.

If you take his ideas in, I think it all really comes down to Mars.

SpaceX : Obviously
Tesla : Moneymaker and you aint gonna drive gas driven vehicles on Mars
SolarCity : Fuel on Mars
Boring Company : Transportation on Mars

I think the guy is obsessed with Mars! Plain and simple. (and what a wonderful dream that is in its own right)

 

[Ichinisan]

... Need to legalize it and stop the insanity of the ban.

It’s legal in California.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Musk IS Tesla, Tesla IS Musk. Part of the problem of the Celebrity CEO. Musk's increasingly erratic behavior calls the firm's position into question.

OR, to translate:

Has Musk lost his fucking mind?

Steve Jobs comes to mind with this guy. Like Jobs.. You could say he's at least a visionary - He's egotistical in the same way. Jobs was ousted from Apple for a while but they brought him back when they were about to go under. This guy could meet the same fate just not the bringing back part.

It seems he's surrounded by sycophants who won't tell him how stupid he looks brandishing a "flamethrower" that's about as impressive as a couple torch lighters taped together.

 

[Zorba]

I'm no fanboi, and you're entitled to your own opinions of course, but I'm going to be my own judge of character of the person who almost singlehandedly privatized space exploration, revolutionized the banking industry, brought a competitive electric car to market, and put solar panels on the roofs of hundreds of thousands of homes.. all while you were typing furiously from your mom's basement.

Just to be clear, SpaceX has received billions from the federal government. They have done amazing things, for much less development money than what was spent decades earlier to develop their competitors. But there are hardly "commercial" in the same way Ford or Boeing Commercial Aircraft are.

The guy is a visionary, but I think the most important thing he has done is create an environment where engineers can really push the envelope and he is willing to take massive risk that most CEOs aren't. The people who work for him are who have developed the actually technology, but they would've never been allowed to elsewhere.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Hybrid technology was introduced by Toyota and Honda 20 years ago and was immediately implemented in a way that made it practical for average buyers.

LOL, no, Toyota created the first mass produced Hybrid vehicle. Big difference. Before that Hybrids were being pushed out in small numbers 30 years ago by the likes of Audi, BMW, and others (and they were all very expensive, whodathunkit).

You'll also notice that while Honda and Toyota are selling Hybrids, neither are able to produce a decent all-electric. An actually decent 60K electric car is a hell of a lot better than where we were at 10 years ago. So to say Tesla is making no progress on the effort is pretty daft.

 

[Greenman]

Elon Musk is a dude no doubt but how many cars does Tesla sell? 100k a year? It seems like a lot but when you look at a single manufacturer like VW it's nothing. It' a tiny drop in the bucket. At this point it isn't even worth them competing with Tesla. What happens when a company like VW decides that they are going to compete with tesla? As in there is enough money in electric for them to get an ROI?

When they or any of the other major car manufacturers decide to invest 10s of billions in building their own high end and/or affordable electric cars it's going to be interesting. Tesla has done well in exploiting a niche. I just hope that in the future they don't get crushed.

I'd say this is spot on. Every major manufacturer see's electrics as a niche market used to meet government emissions standards. Tesla's sales are minuscule compared to any of the major manufactures.

Tesla's real achievement is proving the concept can work, and that electrics can be "cool".

 

[Vic]

I'd say this is spot on. Every major manufacturer see's electrics as a niche market used to meet government emissions standards. Tesla's sales are minuscule compared to any of the major manufactures.

Tesla's real achievement is proving the concept can work, and that electrics can be "cool".

Tesla didn't prove that electric vehicles are "cool." They proved to the public that electric vehicles are superior to ICE vehicles in every respect (except the recharge/refuel time, which just keeps improving).
Electrical vehicles will transition from niche market to dominant within the next 10-15 years, and when it happens, the transition will be abrupt and will result in industry casualties.

 

[Greenman]

Tesla didn't prove that electric vehicles are "cool." They proved to the public that electric vehicles are superior to ICE vehicles in every respect (except the recharge/refuel time, which just keeps improving).
Electrical vehicles will transition from niche market to dominant within the next 10-15 years, and when it happens, the transition will be abrupt and will result in industry casualties.

Recharge and range are the big issues, though I think Tesla is pretty much there with range. The widespread adoption of electrics is a given, it has to happen sooner or later as oil is a finite resource.
I'd buy an electric pickup tomorrow if there was a viable option available.

 

[Chaotic42]

It’s legal in California.

Not really. It's like saying your parents let you take acid in their house. That doesn't mean it's legal.

 

[urvile]

I'd say this is spot on. Every major manufacturer see's electrics as a niche market used to meet government emissions standards. Tesla's sales are minuscule compared to any of the major manufactures.

Tesla's real achievement is proving the concept can work, and that electrics can be "cool".

No. No No. That isn't want I meant bro. Tesla is still trail blazing. Currently they fill a niche but once there is a larger demand. Larger corporations will enter. That larger demand is inevitable dude. Oil is not going to last forever.

 

[urvile]

I think, in his mind, if that were to happen (Tesla crushed) that would be a success.
1. EVs have taken off, two dimensional transport of the future
2. Personally he will have made a TON of fuckloads of money, money he can pour into rockets, and now he wont have to stress over Tesla no more.

If you take his ideas in, I think it all really comes down to Mars.

SpaceX : Obviously
Tesla : Moneymaker and you aint gonna drive gas driven vehicles on Mars
SolarCity : Fuel on Mars
Boring Company : Transportation on Mars

I think the guy is obsessed with Mars! Plain and simple. (and what a wonderful dream that is in its own right)

I think Elon Musk is definitely a visionary. Don't get me wrong. I just have a very pragmatic view of the world.

 

[urvile]

Tesla didn't prove that electric vehicles are "cool." They proved to the public that electric vehicles are superior to ICE vehicles in every respect (except the recharge/refuel time, which just keeps improving).
Electrical vehicles will transition from niche market to dominant within the next 10-15 years, and when it happens, the transition will be abrupt and will result in industry casualties.

Maybe I just see it differently but the major corporations tend to move with the times. When it is time to switch to electric they will. VW has 600,000 employees globally. It's a gigantic corporation its more about where the bulk of their income comes from now. When that revenue stream changes so will their focus. It's a fucking behemoth.

Engineering on that scale comes down to money and talent and if you have the money you can have the talent.

EDIT: It's all about return on investment. That's all that matters. We spend x amount to develop a car and we get x amount back. If we have to pay a 25 billion dollar fine that's a risk we will take. (VW and their defeat devices which is legal in europe but not in the US)

And VW did pay that fine like it was nothing. VW, Toyota, Hyundai etc. these are gigantic corporations which. Surprisingly aren't led by idiots.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Tesla appears to be collapsing in on itself.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/10/technology/business/tesla-stock-bonds-elon-musk/index.html