That day Elon Musk almost certainly committed a felony... (yesterday)

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cytg111

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,851
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repoman0 said:
I'm no fan of Musk but selling expensive toys that regular people covet is a great way to get EVs into the mainstream consciousness and bring prices down. Technology always makes it into the ultra high-end and race cars first. Tesla has likely pushed widespread EV adoption forward by years.
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That was the mission from the get go, start at the top (roadster), publicity etc and use the more expensive cars to pave way for the less expensive ones.. Model 3 was always the endgame.
 
Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
repoman0 said:
I'm no fan of Musk but selling expensive toys that regular people covet is a great way to get EVs into the mainstream consciousness and bring prices down. Technology always makes it into the ultra high-end and race cars first. Tesla has likely pushed widespread EV adoption forward by years.
Click to expand...

Hybrid technology was introduced by Toyota and Honda 20 years ago and was immediately implemented in a way that made it practical for average buyers. Today, the Toyota Prius is one of the lowest TCO cars on the road.

Widespread adoption of EVs is going to require affordable vehicles (the Model 3 is a $60,000 car) and a network of charging stations that will allow people to conveniently and quickly recharge their cars. TCO will need to be as low as (or probably lower than) a Prius.

Tesla has done nothing to make any of that closer to being a reality.

cytg111 said:
That was the mission from the get go, start at the top (roadster), publicity etc and use the more expensive cars to pave way for the less expensive ones.. Model 3 was always the endgame.
Click to expand...

The Model 3 is a $60k car until they start actually selling them for $30k.
 
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repoman0

repoman0

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Jun 17, 2010
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Blackjack200 said:
Hybrid technology was introduced by Toyota and Honda 20 years ago and was immediately implemented in a way that made it practical for average buyers. Today, the Toyota Prius is one of the lowest TCO cars on the road.
Click to expand...

.... And they still burn octane, and few people really want to drive a Prius. Many more people want to drive a Tesla, and they happen to be environmentally cleaner. Nobody really cared or tried to make a semi-practical fully electric vehicle until Tesla came along, and now they have successfully made it "cool" to own one.

Widespread adoption of EVs is going to require affordable vehicles (the Model 3 is a $60,000 car) and a network of charging stations that will allow people to conveniently and quickly recharge their cars. TCO will need to be as low as (or probably lower than) a Prius.

Tesla has done nothing to make any of that closer to being a reality.
Click to expand...

Tesla has a huge network of charging stations. Other manufacturers need to play a HUGE game of catch up if they want a slice of the EV pie, which they do. Simply creating their network of chargers is forcing the hand of other automakers to match them, or will start to do so soon. (most manufacturers are aiming for 25-50% of sales to be fully electric starting in the 2020-2025 timeframe)

It is not really important that they have brought down prices more slowly than expected. They will do so eventually or face competition, or both, once everybody else has finished playing catch up with the charger situation of course.

By the way, I hope everybody else starts their game of catch up pretty soon because I'll be in the market for a new EV in 3-5 years and really don't want to buy a Tesla. I don't like their cars or their founder but I recognize what they have done. After all, the company is made up of talented designers and engineers who have created interesting and groundbreaking products, regardless of what an asshole Musk is.
 
D

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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Tesla is the iPhone, and it is pushing the traditional automakers towards releasing the $300 Android phones for everyone else.

SpaceX has advanced launch technology, driving down costs and making reuse practical.

Those are notable accomplishments, and the non-fanboys among us can appreciate what he's done without giving him a pass for his Trump-like thin skin and loose-cannon misbehavior.
 
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ponyo

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
repoman0 said:
.... And they still burn octane, and few people really want to drive a Prius. Many more people want to drive a Tesla, and they happen to be environmentally cleaner. Nobody really cared or tried to make a semi-practical fully electric vehicle until Tesla came along, and now they have successfully made it "cool" to own one.



Tesla has a huge network of charging stations. Other manufacturers need to play a HUGE game of catch up if they want a slice of the EV pie, which they do. Simply creating their network of chargers is forcing the hand of other automakers to match them, or will start to do so soon. (most manufacturers are aiming for 25-50% of sales to be fully electric starting in the 2020-2025 timeframe)

It is not really important that they have brought down prices more slowly than expected. They will do so eventually or face competition, or both, once everybody else has finished playing catch up with the charger situation of course.

By the way, I hope everybody else starts their game of catch up pretty soon because I'll be in the market for a new EV in 3-5 years and really don't want to buy a Tesla. I don't like their cars or their founder but I recognize what they have done. After all, the company is made up of talented designers and engineers who have created interesting and groundbreaking products, regardless of what an asshole Musk is.
Click to expand...
Tesla has huge lead in Supercharger network but their lead in batteries is much more important and just as impressive. EV is nothing without batteries and this is where Tesla focused early on as they knew it would be the most important. Because of their battery foresight, Tesla is the only manufacturer not bottle necked by battery production. Company who can produce the best batteries at the cheapest price is going to have huge advantage in EV. Tesla has everyone beat by a mile in this most important space.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,994
31,558
146
Blackjack200 said:
Oof.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...esla-tweet-wasn-t-reviewed-by-anyone-nyt-says
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...Is this a joke?
In an hourlong sit-down with the newspaper, Musk also detailed his frequent use of the sleep-aid Ambien -- a drug he’s discussed using before, and whose well-known side effects include sleepwalking. “It is often a choice of no sleep or Ambien,” he told the newspaper.
Click to expand...

It looks like Ambien really is the scapegoat du jour for shitty tweeting.
 
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cytg111

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,851
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Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
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cytg111 said:
Stop yourself.
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Oh yeah, I'm way out of line. It's almost like I'm a high profile person that's repeatedly accused someone of fucking children because he said a mean thing about my submarine. Musk is a shitty person and watching Tesla fail is going to be extremely funny.
 
Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
Blackjack200 said:
Tesla is having a normal one after Elon smokes weed with Joe Rogan while his chief accounting officer of one month resigns. It's definitely a good sign when your accountant takes the job, looks at the books, and says "fuck, I'm out of here".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcol...oth-as-a-stock-and-as-a-company/#2a5cfb5e7cc0

Down more than 9% this morning. $420 would be a 65% premium to its current market price. LMAO.
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I assume he has a security clearance for his work at SpaceX and smoking a blunt on the internet is a very good way to loss that security clearance. I doubt it will have a real impact on SpaceX, but it may limit his involvement in somethings.

Personally I don't fanboy pro or con, but I do think Musk is cracking under the pressure lately and think Tesla stock is massively over valued.
 
UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,715
10,471
136
Oh by the way, head of HR just quit too. It does seem like Elon is going through some kinda crisis...between the pedo accusations, tweeting an SEC violation and now this. Dude probably needs some guidance and is unsure where to turn...I mean where do you go for a mentor when you're Elon fucking Musk?? Steve Jobs is dead!
 
Vic

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Blackjack200 said:
Oh yeah, I'm way out of line. It's almost like I'm a high profile person that's repeatedly accused someone of fucking children because he said a mean thing about my submarine. Musk is a shitty person and watching Tesla fail is going to be extremely funny.
Click to expand...
I'm no fanboi, and you're entitled to your own opinions of course, but I'm going to be my own judge of character of the person who almost singlehandedly privatized space exploration, revolutionized the banking industry, brought a competitive electric car to market, and put solar panels on the roofs of hundreds of thousands of homes.. all while you were typing furiously from your mom's basement.
 
UglyCasanova

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
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Only issue I have with it is if they do drug screenings for mj for employment. When the boss openly tokes it’s hard to fire the peons for it. Need to legalize it and stop the insanity of the ban.
 
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Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Vic said:
I'm no fanboi, and you're entitled to your own opinions of course, but I'm going to be my own judge of character of the person who almost singlehandedly privatized space exploration, revolutionized the banking industry, brought a competitive electric car to market, and put solar panels on the roofs of hundreds of thousands of homes.. all while you were typing furiously from your mom's basement.
Click to expand...

"Revolutionized the banking industry"
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,836
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Vic said:
I'm no fanboi, and you're entitled to your own opinions of course, but I'm going to be my own judge of character of the person who almost singlehandedly privatized space exploration, revolutionized the banking industry, brought a competitive electric car to market, and put solar panels on the roofs of hundreds of thousands of homes.. all while you were typing furiously from your mom's basement.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to forgive a lot of nutty behavior for the ass kicking he's giving several entrenched industries who stopped innovating.
 
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Red Storm

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
ponyo said:
Tesla has huge lead in Supercharger network but their lead in batteries is much more important and just as impressive. EV is nothing without batteries and this is where Tesla focused early on as they knew it would be the most important. Because of their battery foresight, Tesla is the only manufacturer not bottle necked by battery production. Company who can produce the best batteries at the cheapest price is going to have huge advantage in EV. Tesla has everyone beat by a mile in this most important space.
Click to expand...
The supercharger network is a huge feature to me. Why would I buy any other EV when I know Tesla has that huge charging network?
 
Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Vic said:
Yes. And I work in banking BTW. Go back 20 years ago and banks were extremely hesitant to move towards online services because of the inherent security risks. Now it's commonplace. Thank Paypal.
Click to expand...

So do I. The industry is certainly very cautious about rolling out new features or platforms (like web platforms), but they were certainly already doing it. Did chip and pin revolutionize the industry? Did NFC payments? Banking Apps? Venmo? Square? How many revolutions can you have and still have the same basic underlying system that existed 30 years ago with a few extra functional layers on top?

I think you meant "modestly innovated" rather than "revolutionized". Easy mistake to make.
 
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