TF2: The Sniper vs Spy Update

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

Shack: Will the backpack/head items be part of a separate game mode, or is this going to be patched into TF2 proper?

Robin Walker: It'll be in TF2 proper. The primary change here is simply the decoupling of achievements and unlockables, which is the source of most of the negative feedback we've received around previous class packs. The head-slot items are all cosmetic at this point, so they haven't resulted in any significant balance issues in any of our existing game modes.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1124

I didn't think they would do that for the class unlocks though. I thought he just meant the hats.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: fustercluck
The new way of "unlocking" items is completely retarded. They're just lying around in random ammo boxes. I got the cloak & dagger by just standing still before a round even started. I can't believe they went this route instead of having to get achievements to unlock stuff

Wait, you got the achievement by just standing there and not picking up anything? Or did you pick it up from the closet thing? So if you just went around picking up ammo crates you could end up with all the new stuff in a day?

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: mb

Originally posted by: fustercluck
The new way of "unlocking" items is completely retarded. They're just lying around in random ammo boxes. I got the cloak & dagger by just standing still before a round even started. I can't believe they went this route instead of having to get achievements to unlock stuff

I guess they did that to appease <insert hateful adjectives here> people like this:

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I have never once unlocked anything in TF2. I am only vaguely aware of the existence of unlockable weapons, but since they appear to be impossible to get unless you play the game religiously, I really don't care. Far as I can tell, the game is exactly the same as it was on day 1.

It's still a good game but honestly I can't be assed to spend hours a day achievement whoring in order to unlock this stuff. I don't even know what the achievements are or how I'd go about unlocking them. There seem to be a ton of them and I'm not good enough at the game to get more than a couple, and then only by accident.

:|

I don't like this solution. Yeah, I just got my tenth achievement last night for the Scout, took me maybe four nights to get that many (not full nights of playing but just going on a for an hour or two at a time). I don't feel like I really couldn't get the achievements if I stuck at it, and it really didn't take too long on the whole, but it was getting annoying. I wouldn't mind them decoupling the unlockable's from the achievements, but just random pick ups is too far in the other direction. You still should have to do some kind of work to get them but it should be something that is more accessible.

 

[fustercluck]

Glad most people agree with me. Though when talking about it in servers people are really defensive of the new system. Because the new unlock system is geared toward noobs obviously

Back with the first medic update you were required to unlock ALL medic achievements to get the ubersaw. That was overkill obviously, but now they just made it ridiculously stupid. Really a surprising move by the TF2 team...I haven't had a problem with any of the updates before.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: mb

Originally posted by: fustercluck
The new way of "unlocking" items is completely retarded. They're just lying around in random ammo boxes. I got the cloak & dagger by just standing still before a round even started. I can't believe they went this route instead of having to get achievements to unlock stuff

I guess they did that to appease <insert hateful adjectives here> people like this:

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I have never once unlocked anything in TF2. I am only vaguely aware of the existence of unlockable weapons, but since they appear to be impossible to get unless you play the game religiously, I really don't care. Far as I can tell, the game is exactly the same as it was on day 1.

It's still a good game but honestly I can't be assed to spend hours a day achievement whoring in order to unlock this stuff. I don't even know what the achievements are or how I'd go about unlocking them. There seem to be a ton of them and I'm not good enough at the game to get more than a couple, and then only by accident.

:|

Not quite. Valve's goal is to turn TF2 in to an MMORPG, complete with grinding. You aren't grinding if you're on an achievement server racking up stuff. In order to stop people from not grinding, they've introduced Diablo-style random drops. This can't be bypassed with achievement servers, and requires you to grind, perhaps even more than the achievements did.

The problem is not how things are earned, the problem is that things are earned at all. If Valve was truly concerned about feedback, they'd get rid of the damn unlockables and just give them to everyone. The fact that they refuse to do that is clear proof that they want to force people to grind.

TF2 was once a FPS, where you won based on your skill. Now it's a RPG, you win based on luck and ADHD.

 

[coreyb]

uh huhhhhhh

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: coreyb
uh huhhhhhh

/me reads Virge's post.



Yeeeeaaaahhhhh......

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: coreyb
uh huhhhhhh

/me reads Virge's post.



Yeeeeaaaahhhhh......

What? They're turning it in to a game where you grind for gear ala-WoW. How can you possibly dispute that?

 

[pennylane]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: coreyb
uh huhhhhhh

/me reads Virge's post.



Yeeeeaaaahhhhh......

What? They're turning it in to a game where you grind for gear ala-WoW. How can you possibly dispute that?

I don't think it takes too long to get the first 2 weapons. Anyway, I imagine the part they're disputing most is the part about winning "based on luck and ADHD." The bonus weapons aren't really better than the standard ones. They're different and have their uses, but for most cases, the standard ones are better.

 

[coreyb]

Not only that but very quickly after updates everyone has the new weapons and things go back to normal. That isn't even close to a rpg. If you have a problem with it there are programs out there that instantly give you all new weapons anyways.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: coreyb
Not only that but very quickly after updates everyone has the new weapons and things go back to normal. That isn't even close to a rpg. If you have a problem with it there are programs out there that instantly give you all new weapons anyways.

Quickly?
I played for 3hrs last not on 1 server. My team fond ONE new item the whole time.

 

[43st]

I agree with ViRGE for the most part. The problem is that they want an exciting game (great kills, skill, etc.), but they also want it balanced (nullified player skill). The result is a wonderfully colorful and bland game. Describing it as a grind hits the nail on the head. It's not really fun in a memorable way, but you can log on and waste 2 hours really easily.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Well this is stupid. I was really excited about the new items but I'm not going to play classes I don't normally play if there's no set goal and milestones I'm working towards. This randomness shit is shit. You can play for 4 hours and if you're just unlucky feel like you made ZERO progress.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Well this is stupid. I was really excited about the new items but I'm not going to play classes I don't normally play if there's no set goal and milestones I'm working towards. This randomness shit is shit. You can play for 4 hours and if you're just unlucky feel like you made ZERO progress.

I have to agree. I'm not a big "Achievements" guy in any game. But in TF2 I always tried hard to gain the achievements for all the classes as I wanted to unlock the items that came along with them. Now, I couldn't give 2 shits about the achievements and I feel a MAJOR part of the game has been taken away.

The more you play the more you should be REWARDED with better items. Isn't that the idea? Valve does A LOT of things right. This randomness negates A TON of it.

 

[JTsyo]

Face it, it's not going to matter to those that play TF2 regularly. Either way you end up with the weapons at some point. SO instead of spending 2-3 days trying for achievements, you play as you normally do and end up with the unlocks. I think it's good since it'll stop everyone from playing the same class since people will get the unlocks at different times.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: JTsyo
Face it, it's not going to matter to those that play TF2 regularly. Either way you end up with the weapons at some point. SO instead of spending 2-3 days trying for achievements, you play as you normally do and end up with the unlocks. I think it's good since it'll stop everyone from playing the same class since people will get the unlocks at different times.

I play regularly and I think its stupid as hell.
Everyone SHOULDN'T be playing the same damned classes. Every server worth its weight should have class limits in place ESPECIALLY after patches like this are released.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

anyone that bitches about unlockables is a fool.

 

[vj8usa]

This is awesome. I played payload race for an hour, and got the dead ringer out of nowhere.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Well this is stupid. I was really excited about the new items but I'm not going to play classes I don't normally play if there's no set goal and milestones I'm working towards. This randomness shit is shit. You can play for 4 hours and if you're just unlucky feel like you made ZERO progress.

I have to agree. I'm not a big "Achievements" guy in any game. But in TF2 I always tried hard to gain the achievements for all the classes as I wanted to unlock the items that came along with them. Now, I couldn't give 2 shits about the achievements and I feel a MAJOR part of the game has been taken away.

The more you play the more you should be REWARDED with better items. Isn't that the idea? Valve does A LOT of things right. This randomness negates A TON of it.

I'm with Homerboy 100%. I enjoyed trying to go through the class specific achievements 1) for fun and 2) because I felt it actually made you work to get better at the class (for some of them). This randomness is weak.. I really don't care about the people who just logged on achievement servers for their items. Whatever, I had fun doing it the old way.

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: JTsyo
Face it, it's not going to matter to those that play TF2 regularly. Either way you end up with the weapons at some point. SO instead of spending 2-3 days trying for achievements, you play as you normally do and end up with the unlocks. I think it's good since it'll stop everyone from playing the same class since people will get the unlocks at different times.

I don't know. I've got 1/3 of the sniper achievements already, and NO NEW WEAPONS.

People who are just starting out with NO ACHIEVEMENTS EARNED are already getting them.

This is completely messed up. Either give all weapons to everyone, or make people earn them. This random BS has to stop.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Well this is stupid. I was really excited about the new items but I'm not going to play classes I don't normally play if there's no set goal and milestones I'm working towards. This randomness shit is shit. You can play for 4 hours and if you're just unlucky feel like you made ZERO progress.

I have to agree. I'm not a big "Achievements" guy in any game. But in TF2 I always tried hard to gain the achievements for all the classes as I wanted to unlock the items that came along with them. Now, I couldn't give 2 shits about the achievements and I feel a MAJOR part of the game has been taken away.

The more you play the more you should be REWARDED with better items. Isn't that the idea? Valve does A LOT of things right. This randomness negates A TON of it.

I'm with Homerboy 100%. I enjoyed trying to go through the class specific achievements 1) for fun and 2) because I felt it actually made you work to get better at the class (for some of them). This randomness is weak.. I really don't care about the people who just logged on achievement servers for their items. Whatever, I had fun doing it the old way.

Completely agree with this post. I was looking forward to the Spy updates because it would give me a reason to spend time playing and trying to get better at Spy (by far my weakest class), but now that the incentive is gone I will probably stick with only playing the Spy every once in a while when there are no other Spys on my team.

KT

 

[Lorax]

can someone clarify how to get the new items, do you have to play as the class and then you just keep getting ammo boxes?

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: Lorax
can someone clarify how to get the new items, do you have to play as the class and then you just keep getting ammo boxes?

It seems to be completely random and unlinked to what class you're playing. I was a soldier when I got the dead ringer, and I was just running around. You get the unlock for good once you find it (the notification is pretty much the same as the old one for when you reached achievement milestones; it asks you if you want to "equip it now").

 

[spittledip]

Meh, I don't care. I play the game regulaly and only play a particular class depending upon my mood or i f I feel the team needs a particular class. Coincidentally i hacve been playing the spy more, but that was b/c I was interested in learning a new class. This is just a game and you dont ahve to "grind" if you dont want to. For those that "grind' it is more MMO, but for those of us who don't, it is still FPS.

I was on a server alst night, and this guy was crying on and on about this issue and it was really irritating. You people need to get a life- it is just a freaking game. I told him the same.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: vj8usa

Originally posted by: Lorax
can someone clarify how to get the new items, do you have to play as the class and then you just keep getting ammo boxes?

It seems to be completely random and unlinked to what class you're playing. I was a soldier when I got the dead ringer, and I was just running around. You get the unlock for good once you find it (the notification is pretty much the same as the old one for when you reached achievement milestones; it asks you if you want to "equip it now").

Well at least I can continue playing Pyro and hope to get the new weapons, uh, sometime. But the achievements are so pointless now. It's like those single player games that give you achievements that literally amount to just a check mark next to some text without affecting gameplay one iota. I remember Mass Effect had this - you'd gain achievements for, say, exploring all the planets. But did it unlock anything for you? Nope. So why waste your time?