Tesselation done properly..according to AMD

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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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An over-clocked 6870 in that review?

Interesting!

That review was obviously staged and coerced by AMD because the 6870 TURBO is overclocked and no where in that graph are there bright colored flashing neon signs and asterisks that tell uninformed readers the card is not reference and therefore can't possibly be an expected result. ;)
 
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Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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That review was obviously staged and coerced by AMD because the 6870 TURBO is overclocked and no where in that graph are there bright colored flashing neon signs and asterisks that tell uninformed readers the card is not reference and therefore can't possibly be an expected result. ;)


I know thats sarcasme, but still.... cant help but point out theres a stock clocked 6870 there too, and thats still pretty fast.

heaven_1920_1200.gif


blue is stock, green is a factory oc card by HIS.
27.9 fps and 29 fps vs the 470's 30.7 fps.

My point was just the 6870 card here is pretty close in performance (from the get go) compaired to the 470, even in tessellation performance benchmarks, like unigine.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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And now there are a plethora of AMAZING games using tessellation right? :\



http://cssmixes.co.uk/forum/topic/5073
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHh8D3AzZaU

Did you play with tessellation off to see the difference? I don't see much difference. I didn't really pay much attention to this game because I'm not a fan of flight sims so this is the first time I've actually checked out the detail since you mentioned it looks "breathtaking". After seeing those screens and the video...is THIS what all the fuss has been about? And there were several threads dedicated to arguing about this game...what a waste of time if that is all the increase in detail tessellation gives in this game. Please enlighten me if I'm completely missing something.


It's painfully obvious, to me, which one looks better but is it enough to help sell GPU's? I don't care! I like tessellation and glad to see AMD, nVidia and DirectX offer it. I'm glad ATI offered it first, glad to see nVidia raise the bar and just hope they all continue to move forward with it.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
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It's painfully obvious, to me, which one looks better but is it enough to help sell GPU's? I don't care! I like tessellation and glad to see AMD, nVidia and DirectX offer it. I'm glad ATI offered it first, glad to see nVidia raise the bar and just hope they all continue to move forward with it.

For sure I can tell the difference, but it is so minimal, IMO.

I wholeheartedly agree with the 2nd part of your statement. I'm glad we have tessellation...I just wish we had more games that use it to a higher degree so that we have amazing detail in games. Unfortunately I think (and I hope I'm wrong) that it won't be utilized en masse until new consoles comes out that support it. What we have now is a start though.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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That review was obviously staged and coerced by AMD because the 6870 TURBO is overclocked and no where in that graph are there bright colored flashing neon signs and asterisks that tell uninformed readers the card is not reference and therefore can't possibly be an expected result. ;)

But where are the torch-and-pitchforkers now?
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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Was the 580 compaired to overclocked 5970s or 5870s? on its launch date?

(I only ask because most stock 5970s seem to be faster than the 580, and if amd had sent review sites oc'ed cards of 5970s we might have seen reviews that showed a 580 being like 10% slower or more than the 5970s, would you have had pitch forks out if that had happend?)

If it was I think nvidia guys would have pitch forkers out, even amd guys too.
Its wrong to use overclocked cards vs a brand new card on its launch day.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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For sure I can tell the difference, but it is so minimal, IMO.

I wholeheartedly agree with the 2nd part of your statement. I'm glad we have tessellation...I just wish we had more games that use it to a higher degree so that we have amazing detail in games. Unfortunately I think (and I hope I'm wrong) that it won't be utilized en masse until new consoles comes out that support it. What we have now is a start though.

Imho,

It's not as exciting as filtering or anti-aliasing and some may deem these things subtle, too, but subjective tastes are subjective tastes. The idea, for me, is to create realism and tessellation will help this out a lot.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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I truly doubt we'll ever see games with res @ 1tri/pixel, except to purposely make your hardware choke. Why? Because there's absolutely no need for that high a resolution. Even the "hero" models won't benefit from that high of a resolution, never mind terrain. Which means there's no reason for gamers to have to pay for that much rendering power. That doesn't mean I don't want video cards to be able to render at that res in real time. While not useful for games it would be useful for rendering animation and 3D modeling work in real time. Although I don't believe that GPU rendering is up to the quality level yet that CPU rendering is. Maybe Fusion will fix that by combining the two processes?
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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Yes there is a difference but it is so minor that it doesn't make much of an impact on detail levels. Are you seriously saying (after seeing those screens and video) that there is a vast improvement in detail? As I said please enlighten me if I'm completely missing something.

Anyone else see a vast difference as well? Maybe I should change optometrists...he thinks my eyes are fine...but I don't see a huge difference.

The only difference I can see is in the mountains. It is not enough to make me go out and buy a DX11 card.

Besides, it would not matter if I went AMD or nVidia for this game anyway, as any of the mid range video cards will give me a smooth 60 fps experience.
 

Rezist

Senior member
Jun 20, 2009
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As I said. It's your loss. I don't know how you can't tell the difference, it seems utterly impossible to me not to be able to see it. All of it.

Well he may not be seeing it the way it's meant to be seen.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
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The demo is supposed to show off what graphics possibilities/eye-candy are possible in a game environment with high-end cards right?

If the demo runs too slowly, it could just mean your card is not up to snuff. With my 460s in SLI, I get pretty decent frame rates.

That's not the point I was making. Does that demo look good to you? GTA4 looks better than that Demo. Unigene Looks a million times better.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
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Tesselation is already a selling point. It's a major part of DX11. And I don't know who said they were unimpressed by HAWX2, but man get glasses. Those mountains are breathtaking in their detail. If you don't think so, your loss.

What? Are you kidding me? That's the same difference we saw with the crowds in Dirt 2 If that's what extreme Tessellation can do than I don't really care for it. Dirt 2, F1 2010, Civ5 ALL look much better with their DX11 effects. You know why? They don't rely on a single feature of DX11, but most of them.

When AMD were showing off DX11 hardware, they weren't only talking about tessellation, they were talking about all the new features DX11 brought. nV on the other hand are only talking about Tessellation like it is the holy grail. I don't remember AMD doing that. FYI the above mentioned games are Gaming Evolved titles.
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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Tesselation is already a selling point. It's a major part of DX11. And I don't know who said they were unimpressed by HAWX2, but man get glasses. Those mountains are breathtaking in their detail. If you don't think so, your loss.

Since none of us are here to sell cards, lets just see the difference in those mountains and let each decide.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
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Since none of us are here to sell cards, lets just see the difference in those mountains and let each decide.

Speak for yourself. There are some people here who are compensated for their favorable opinions on graphics cards. :eek:
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
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Ok, so I see what is happening here and I'm not sure why I didn't expect this. Every Nvidia fan can see a big difference, while every AMD fan can hardly notice it. What you guys are forgetting is, both AMD and NV DX11 cards run HAWX2 just fine with tesselation. So, for me, it isn't about NV tesselating more and faster than AMD counterparts. It's acknowledging the new technology and appreciating it. Closely looking at that terrain impressed me. Nobody can change my mind on that, especially after I spent an hour viewing with Tess on, Tess off, looking at the various landscape detail differences.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
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I think they forgave TPU for including the card they set out to review in the charts.

Well he may not be seeing it the way it's meant to be seen.

These two posts had me rolling. :biggrin: Thanks guys.

I'm excited for what tesselation can do for immersion in games but I don't think there is much out right now that does it much justice. Hopefully in the near future tesselation will be able to stretch its legs a bit.
 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
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some of you guys need to stop the gang bang session that is going on in here. To the people that are denying the enhancement brought by tessalation I suggest picking up a 360 or ps3. Tessalation is in it's infancy (atleast as far as actually being used) and is only gonna gain steam. I for one think the utilization in hawx 2 is quite noticeable and can't wait for other games follow suit. metro 2033 tessalation sucks, AVP tessalation sucks, dirt 2 can't comment.....
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
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If you guys think this is ugly now, it's only going to get worse after Cayman launches.

Barts already has very good tesselation at lower factors, although still not quite as good as Nvidia. Barts, like Cypress before it, still falls apart at higher tesselation factors though, and this is where Nvidia shines.

With Cayman, instead of Nvidia being faster at tesselation in general, what will probably happen is that Cayman will actually be able to beat Fermi in tesselation, at least at lower factos, and perhaps significantly so. Meanwhile, assuming Cayman shares the same drop off as Barts and Cayman, it's safe to assume that Fermi will still rule the roost (by a staggering amount) when it comes to high-to-insane tesselation factors.

Obviously, both companies are going to start pushing for the scenarios that make their cards look good and their competitor's cards bad. Nvidia obviously has more clout with developers, but at the same time I think that insane tesselation factors are an absolute waste of performance for something that isn't even discernable to the human eye without a wireframe view, so I can see a lot of developers going the other way.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
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Ok, so I see what is happening here and I'm not sure why I didn't expect this. Every Nvidia fan can see a big difference, while every AMD fan can hardly notice it. What you guys are forgetting is, both AMD and NV DX11 cards run HAWX2 just fine with tesselation. So, for me, it isn't about NV tesselating more and faster than AMD counterparts. It's acknowledging the new technology and appreciating it. Closely looking at that terrain impressed me. Nobody can change my mind on that, especially after I spent an hour viewing with Tess on, Tess off, looking at the various landscape detail differences.

You have to be honest though, you may be seeing what you expect to see. We'll call this phenomenon, "Tesselacebo"
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,060
2,273
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Ok, so I see what is happening here and I'm not sure why I didn't expect this. Every Nvidia fan can see a big difference, while every AMD fan can hardly notice it. What you guys are forgetting is, both AMD and NV DX11 cards run HAWX2 just fine with tesselation. So, for me, it isn't about NV tesselating more and faster than AMD counterparts. It's acknowledging the new technology and appreciating it. Closely looking at that terrain impressed me. Nobody can change my mind on that, especially after I spent an hour viewing with Tess on, Tess off, looking at the various landscape detail differences.

come on keys its not a fanboy thing...i honestly cant spot a huge difference. Its there but not significant. If i said the same about unigine then call me a fanboy. I also appreciate that we are getting these features, in fact i wish they were more widely used but to a greater extent. Unfortunately im not a dev so i cant change that.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
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Tessellation in not only about eye candy and better IQ but also better performance, something you all forgetting. Civ-V and HAWX2 clearly show that we can raise the graphics IQ without losing performance.

If people are not impressed with HAWX2 IQ graphics they should be very impressed that low/middle range cards can actually render those graphics at more than 60 fps.

With dual core architecture, Cayman will have much better performance in Tessellation than Cypress and I believe Cayman XT will be on par with GTX580 in Tessellation.