I suspect the moment Ati can do 1 pixel tessellated triangles fast Eric Demers will be singing a completely different tune. They clearly don't feel their tessellator is fast enough right now because that's the thing they really tweaked the most between the 5 and 6 series cards.
My personal opinion is it's a bit like the difference between 4*MS AA and 8*SS AA. It's not that great really, but it does look better. If you've got the gpu power why not use it.
My personal opinion is it's a bit like the difference between 4*MS AA and 8*SS AA. It's not that great really, but it does look better. If you've got the gpu power why not use it.
Of course, that's what companies do. Nvidia allegedly kept tessellation from dx10 specs because they didn't have hardware for it. Now they're hyping it every second. AMD was advertising tesellation when nobody even used it. Now they're saying it does not need to be so powerful.
Remember Intel before Conroe? "Performance per watt is irrelevant." Look at em now
Remember Intel before Conroe? "Performance per watt is irrelevant." Look at em now
I am not sure I agree with only going down to 16 pixel triangles for tessellation. However, at this stage (early) in the game, it seems pretty hard to argue that 1 pixel tessellation should be used... Even nVidia's 580 GTX will perform like a cripple under those circumstances. Sure, a cripple is faster than being lame (AMD) but it still doesn't make for a great experience.
Even if nVidia is 5x faster at 1 pixel tessellation, but neither of them run at an acceptable speed (1 frame per second versus 5), what is the point?
But since I am no fanboy of ANY company, let alone graphics cards, and am relatively unbiased, I will say that nVidia has a really strong card on their hands with the GTX 580. The reality is that I don't think either of them have what it takes to run extreme modes of tessellation while keeping a playable frame rate in games. nVidia will likely perform better, but I just don't see it being a game breaker at this point.
Additionally, I also agree that we are only going to see a few titles use it properly because of the current gen consoles. Until the Xbox 3 is released with DX11+ built-in, I don't think we are going to see a lot of advancement in this area.
Also, we are going to see the next-gen cards (7XXX series and 6XX series) before any of this really matters. Those are the cards that better get tessellation right. As for right now, it looks like nVidia is ahead of AMD... But time will tell.
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Need I also remind everyone that if nVidia does not get competition, we will have another G80 release on our hands. Sure the G80 was incredable! No doubt, but the prices were horrid and the mid-range cards were pathetic. Do we really want a repeat of that? Do we really want an 8800GTX = $650 (Ultras went for $799) all over again? I don't... I loved the advancement that is gave, but I didn't particular care for those prices. I'd hate that to happen again...
Even if nVidia is 5x faster at 1 pixel tessellation, but neither of them run at an acceptable speed (1 frame per second versus 5), what is the point?
But since I am no fanboy of ANY company, let alone graphics cards, and am relatively unbiased, I will say that nVidia has a really strong card on their hands with the GTX 580. The reality is that I don't think either of them have what it takes to run extreme modes of tessellation while keeping a playable frame rate in games. nVidia will likely perform better, but I just don't see it being a game breaker at this point.
Additionally, I also agree that we are only going to see a few titles use it properly because of the current gen consoles. Until the Xbox 3 is released with DX11+ built-in, I don't think we are going to see a lot of advancement in this area.
Also, we are going to see the next-gen cards (7XXX series and 6XX series) before any of this really matters. Those are the cards that better get tessellation right. As for right now, it looks like nVidia is ahead of AMD... But time will tell.
----------------
Need I also remind everyone that if nVidia does not get competition, we will have another G80 release on our hands. Sure the G80 was incredable! No doubt, but the prices were horrid and the mid-range cards were pathetic. Do we really want a repeat of that? Do we really want an 8800GTX = $650 (Ultras went for $799) all over again? I don't... I loved the advancement that is gave, but I didn't particular care for those prices. I'd hate that to happen again...
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tyl998
Senior member
- Aug 30, 2010
- 236
- 0
- 0
The demo is supposed to show off what graphics possibilities/eye-candy are possible in a game environment with high-end cards right?
If the demo runs too slowly, it could just mean your card is not up to snuff. With my 460s in SLI, I get pretty decent frame rates.
90% of the posts that I see from you are sarcastic one liners. Ever thought about being a contributer?
This type of critical feedback is best left to pm's, has no place being posted publicly in VC&G.
Moderator Idontcare
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This is so funny watching people talk about a feature that's hardly used now as if it's really important. The blog post has a lot of good point about limitation to the technology.
I got a DX10 card when it first came out. And you know what I hardly used it's DX10 features. And by the time I could with the games I was playing I needed a new one.
The point of the blog post is simple. Tessellation is useful but has limitations. Why are people drawing it to be a marketing move? Nvidia was never mentioned in the entire post.
Right now superfast tessellation is like getting a car with a super powerful engine but a shit chassis. Fast tessellation right now is great if you can use it but the rest of a the GPU needs to keep up in order to fully utilize the potential. And what's the point of spending resource and money to make tessellation very fast and then neglecting the rest? A balance approach is the best and not only for the vendors who makes these GPUS, it's best for us the consumers too. After all, we all want the best performance for the crop of games we are likely to play at a price we'd be able to pay. Putting fast tessellation in a GPU where it cannot be used is likely just 1) using up extra die space and driving up costs 2) using up engineering resource and driving up costs. For me I'll take ok tessellation for the games of today and the near future on a lower price tag.
I got a DX10 card when it first came out. And you know what I hardly used it's DX10 features. And by the time I could with the games I was playing I needed a new one.
The point of the blog post is simple. Tessellation is useful but has limitations. Why are people drawing it to be a marketing move? Nvidia was never mentioned in the entire post.
Right now superfast tessellation is like getting a car with a super powerful engine but a shit chassis. Fast tessellation right now is great if you can use it but the rest of a the GPU needs to keep up in order to fully utilize the potential. And what's the point of spending resource and money to make tessellation very fast and then neglecting the rest? A balance approach is the best and not only for the vendors who makes these GPUS, it's best for us the consumers too. After all, we all want the best performance for the crop of games we are likely to play at a price we'd be able to pay. Putting fast tessellation in a GPU where it cannot be used is likely just 1) using up extra die space and driving up costs 2) using up engineering resource and driving up costs. For me I'll take ok tessellation for the games of today and the near future on a lower price tag.
QFT.
Wait damn was about to do the same...better contribute. :
Sooo....about tessellation. Seriously...this argument is just getting old. AMD can't go to the very highest levels of tessellation and nVidia's lead isn't being used in games (where it makes the difference between playable and unplayable) so it's irrelevant. Wake me up when games (not benchmarks) are using Unigine levels of tessellation. That would be something and I would gladly go with the card maker that provides the better performance in a game like that. It's almost guaranteed that won't happen for maybe another year (or whenever the new consoles come out) and by then we will have more powerful hardware from both camps...making these arguments we have now useless.
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
- 2
- 0
I bet you can't match the smile I wearing after reading this . I heard it with cuda . I heard it with PX I heard it with3D . You NV guys are amusing bunch. ya da ya da ya da Tess is the NEW NV fanbois Holy grail followed closely ny PX and cuda and last but most often used the poor AMD/ATI drivers . LOL Same song and dance differant day.
SolMiester
Diamond Member
- Dec 19, 2004
- 5,330
- 17
- 76
So until AMD has stronger Tessellation Performance it doesn't matter or its not done proper?
Sounds a lot like if your video card doesn't run games well because of dx9 just use the dx8 code path.
Your memory is not so shaky, who needs dx9 when dx8 looks so good lol
I wonder when DirectX 12 will be out
and if we ll be hearing about something new, that ll again run like crap on both type of cards (amd and nvidias) and take a few years before its used decently in games.
Tessellation performance doesnt look that bad for the 6870s...
card performance about the same as the 470's, both in non tess benchmarks and in tess benchmarks.
Those slides that say the 6970 will have 2x-3x tessellation performance of the 5870.... that would make the 6970 run faster than the 5970 and probably the 580's in Unigine benchmark.
5870s scoreing 27 fps, if the 6970 has 2x-3x its tessellation performance... maybe we ll see scores in the 54 fps+ ranges? vs the 480's getting 38,8 fps.
and if we ll be hearing about something new, that ll again run like crap on both type of cards (amd and nvidias) and take a few years before its used decently in games.
Tessellation performance doesnt look that bad for the 6870s...
card performance about the same as the 470's, both in non tess benchmarks and in tess benchmarks.
Those slides that say the 6970 will have 2x-3x tessellation performance of the 5870.... that would make the 6970 run faster than the 5970 and probably the 580's in Unigine benchmark.
5870s scoreing 27 fps, if the 6970 has 2x-3x its tessellation performance... maybe we ll see scores in the 54 fps+ ranges? vs the 480's getting 38,8 fps.
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zokudu
Diamond Member
- Nov 11, 2009
- 4,364
- 1
- 81
Not really you need to reread my post and take any bias you have out of it because I have none. I was saying that we've heard the same song and dance from AMD about how useless tessellation is at high levels but at the end of the day tessellation will not become a major selling point until its utilized properly. Which will not be for at least another year or so. So yes tessellation is not being used properly but it is not AMD or nVidias fault its consoles fault and were stuck with it until it gets fixed.
Well AMD thought tesselation was a major selling point before. When AMD was the only DX11 capable solution, and there was only one crappy racing game that even used it (Dirt2?), they proclaimed it to be the greatest invention of all time.
zokudu
Diamond Member
- Nov 11, 2009
- 4,364
- 1
- 81
Well it shouldn't be a major selling point its just a bullet point for 90% of applications at the moment.
busydude
Diamond Member
- Feb 5, 2010
- 8,793
- 5
- 76
LOL.. you didn't play that game did you? It was awesome. Hawx 2, OTOH, is a crappy game.
And now there are a plethora of AMAZING games using tessellation right? :\
http://cssmixes.co.uk/forum/topic/5073
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHh8D3AzZaU
Did you play with tessellation off to see the difference? I don't see much difference. I didn't really pay much attention to this game because I'm not a fan of flight sims so this is the first time I've actually checked out the detail since you mentioned it looks "breathtaking". After seeing those screens and the video...is THIS what all the fuss has been about? And there were several threads dedicated to arguing about this game...what a waste of time if that is all the increase in detail tessellation gives in this game. Please enlighten me if I'm completely missing something.
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Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
- 54
- 91
As I said. It's your loss. I don't know how you can't tell the difference, it seems utterly impossible to me not to be able to see it. All of it.
Yes there is a difference but it is so minor that it doesn't make much of an impact on detail levels. Are you seriously saying (after seeing those screens and video) that there is a vast improvement in detail? As I said please enlighten me if I'm completely missing something.
Anyone else see a vast difference as well? Maybe I should change optometrists...he thinks my eyes are fine...but I don't see a huge difference.
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Barfo
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2005
- 27,539
- 212
- 106
Yeah pretty much. And if AMD's new architecture happens to be much stronger in Tessellation than Nvidia's the roles will be reversed.
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