Terry Schiavo allowed to die

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
Because he's not proving a point. He's enforcing the wishes of his wife. It's that simple.

A woman should not be tortured just so her parents and family can sleep at night and have no pain. They should let go and stop torturing Terri.

If what Rip said is true (he never mentioned that it was her wish to die in such a situation until years after the fact), then I would have my doubts as to whether this was really her wish.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: totalcommand
Because he's not proving a point. He's enforcing the wishes of his wife. It's that simple.

A woman should not be tortured just so her parents and family can sleep at night and have no pain. They should let go and stop torturing Terri.

If what Rip said is true (he never mentioned that it was her wish to die in such a situation until years after the fact), then I would have my doubts as to whether this was really her wish.

I just struggle with the fact that if it wasn't her wish, why would he be going through all this trouble? he could get a divorice in a heartbeat and her parents would be more than willing to take care of caring for their daughter.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: totalcommand
Because he's not proving a point. He's enforcing the wishes of his wife. It's that simple.

A woman should not be tortured just so her parents and family can sleep at night and have no pain. They should let go and stop torturing Terri.

If what Rip said is true (he never mentioned that it was her wish to die in such a situation until years after the fact), then I would have my doubts as to whether this was really her wish.

Be careful of what Rip says. It's often taken out of context.

Why did Terri?s husband get to make the decision about whether she should live or die?

Michael Schiavo did not make the decision to discontinue life-prolonging measures for Terri.

As Terri's husband, Michael has been her guardian and her surrogate decision-maker. By 1998, though -- eight years after the trauma that produced Terri's situation -- Michael and Terri's parents disagreed over the proper course for her.

Rather than make the decision himself, Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements Terri made to him and others, he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures. Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case.

The trial court in this case held a trial on the dispute. Both sides were given opportunities to present their views and the evidence supporting those views. Afterwards, the trial court determined that, even applying the "clear and convincing evidence" standard -- the highest burden of proof used in civil cases -- the evidence showed that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

 

[Drift3r]

If she was in Texas this would not be a issue.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/...PE=B&BILLSUFFIX=01260&VERSION=5&TYPE=B

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3087387

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3073295

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
...

Sheesh... The problem, then, is that the way the court system has to handle such cases is completely bassackwards. The court should appoint one or the other (husband or one parent) as having power-of-attorney for health care. It would effectively be performing the same function, since the judge would necessarily have to choose one side or the other, but it would greatly reduce the appearance that the court is calling the shots. The court could then simply consider the evidence presented by both parties and award power-of-attorney to the party it deemed most likely to mirror the patient's wishes. IMO, this is the proper way to go about it, and I know that this is the way it is done in some, if not most, states.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Topic Title: Terry Schiavo allowed to die

Thread Title is wrong, she's not dead yet and probably will outlive us all.

lol, i can see the headlines now.
Bush III signs terry's bill into law, allowing terry Schiavo's vegitative head to be fitted onto donor body.

:thumbsup: As long as it's not my body

Wow, Partisan hacks can't even stay of a thread like this. Way to go. :roll:

Rename this forum as Generalizations & Trolling.:thumbsdown:

:thumbsdown:

Yup great post :beer:

No Dave the title is correct it's all in your head.

 

[Riprorin]

Here's a good indication of the kind of person Michael Schiavo is:

Medical Malpractice Trial ? Testimony of Michael Schiavo

November 1992 ? In a highly emotional trial, Michael Schiavo implored the jury to award money for his wife?s future medical and neurological care. Actual excerpts from the malpractice trial transcript reveal Michael Schiavo?s sworn testimony as he responded to his attorney's question. (It is important to note that Terri?s alleged wishes stating, "she wouldn?t want to live this way," are never mentioned by her husband at the 1992 malpractice trial).

Q: Why did you want to learn to be a nurse?
Michael Schiavo: Because I enjoy it and I want to learn more how to take care of Terri.

Q: You're a young man. Your life is ahead of you. When you look up the road, what do you see for yourself?
Michael Schiavo: See myself hopefully finishing school and taking care of my wife.

Q: Where do you want to take care of your wife?
Michael Schiavo: I want to bring her home.

Q: If you had the resources available to you, if you had the equipment and the people, would you do that?
Michael Schiavo: Yes, I would, in a heartbeat.

Q: How do you feel about being married to Terri now?
Michael Schiavo: I feel wonderful. She's my life and I wouldn't trade her for the world. I believe in my wedding vows.

Q: You believe in your wedding vows, what do you mean by that?
Michael Schiavo: I believe in the vows I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poor. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that.

Summer 1993 ? Michael Schiavo dramatically demonstrates his interpretation of what his trial testimony "taking care of," really means. Less than a year after the medical malpractice jury award, Schiavo makes his first of two attempts to end his wife?s life. Bear in mind, Michael Schiavo is the inheritor of Terri's medical fund.

Michael Schiavo, under oath, in a November 1993 deposition, admits that he knew Terri would die when he instructed Terri?s caretakers not to medicate Terri with antibiotics for a potentially fatal infection. He also instructs Terri?s caretakers "not to resuscitate" should Terri require any life saving action.

Link

 

[Taejin]

Maybe before you start pointing fingers, you should tell us how you'd stand by your braindead wife for at least 15 years (God forbid that should happen to her).

Just don't point righteous fingers unless you can honestly say you'd do the "right" thing (atleast in your eyes).

 

[Riprorin]

He said that he would take care of her for the rest of his life in the November 1992 malpractice trial and by the summer of 1993 he was witholding antibiotics for a potentially fatal infection.

The guys a real prince isn't he?

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
He said that he would take care of her for the rest of his life in the November 1992 malpractice trial and by the summer of 1993 he was witholding antibiotics for a potentially fatal infection.

The guys a real prince isn't he?

In saying that she wanted to pass away should she be in such a state, this is standard action. People with living wills add such clauses to the documents all the time.

You're a real devil aren't you?

 

[Buz2b]

Just one last bit of input, for educational and information purposes:

Terri Schiavo Timeline

Mar 17, 2005 2:59 pm US/Eastern
(AP) Key dates in the case of Terri Schiavo, who has been at the center of a protracted legal battle between her husband and parents over the husband's attempts to remove her feeding tube.

1990
-- Feb. 25: Terri Schiavo collapses in her home. Doctors believe a potassium imbalance caused her heart to temporarily stop, cutting off oxygen to her brain.

1992
-- November: Terri's husband, Michael, wins malpractice suit that accused doctors of misdiagnosing his wife; jury awards more than more than $700,000 for her care, Michael receives an additional $300,000.

1993
-- Feb. 14: Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have a falling out with Michael over the malpractice suit money and Terri's care.
-- July 29: Bob and Mary Schindler file petition to have Michael Schiavo removed as Terri's guardian. The case is later dismissed.

1998
-- May: Michael Schiavo files petition to remove Terri's feeding tube.

2000
-- Feb. 11: Circuit Judge George W. Greer rules feeding tube can be removed.

2001
-- Jan. 24: 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's decision.
-- March 29: Greer rules feeding tube to be removed April 20.
-- April 18: Florida Supreme Court refuses to intervene in the case.
-- April 20: U.S. District Judge Richard Lazzara grants the Schindlers a stay until April 23 to exhaust appeals.
-- April 23: U.S. Supreme Court refuses to intervene.
-- April 24: Feeding tube is removed from Terri Schiavo.
-- April 26: Circuit Judge Frank Quesada orders doctors to reinsert Terri's feeding tube.
-- April 30: Lawyers for Michael Schiavo file emergency motion with appellate court asking it to order removal of Terri's feeding tube.
-- July 11: 2nd District Court of Appeal sends case back to Judge Greer.
-- July 18: Schindlers ask Greer to let their doctors evaluate Terri before making a final decision on removing the feeding tube.
-- Aug. 10: Greer denies the Schindlers' evaluation request, as well as their request to remove Michael Schiavo as guardian.
-- Sept. 26: Schindlers' attorneys argue before 2nd District Court of Appeal, citing testimony from seven doctors who say Terri can recover with the right treatment.
-- Oct. 3: 2nd District Court of Appeal delays removal of feeding tube indefinitely.
-- Oct. 17: 2nd District Court of Appeal rules that five doctors can examine Terri to determine whether she has any hope of recovery. Two doctors are picked by the Schindlers, two are picked by Michael Schiavo and one is picked by the court.

2002
-- Feb. 13: Mediation attempts fail; Michael Schiavo again seeks to be allowed to remove Terri's feeding tube.
-- Oct. 12: Weeklong hearing begins in the case. Three doctors, including the one appointed by the court, testify that Terri is in a persistent, vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The two doctors selected by the Schindlers say she can recover.
-- Nov. 22: Judge Greer rules that there is no evidence that Terri has any hope of recovery and orders feeding tube to be removed Jan. 3, 2003.
-- Dec. 13: Judge Greer stays order to remove feeding tube on Jan. 3 until the 2nd District Court of Appeal reviews the case.

2003
-- April 4: Schindlers' attorneys ask 2nd District Court of Appeal panel to "err on the side of life" and overturn Greer's ruling.
-- June 6: 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's ruling.
-- July 15: The 2nd District Court of Appeal refuses to rehear the case.
-- Aug. 22: The Florida Supreme Court declines to hear case.
-- Sept. 2: Schindlers take case to federal court seeking judicial intervention.
-- Sept. 17: Judge Greer sets Oct. 15 date for removal of tube.
-- Oct. 3: Attorney General Charlie Crist says he won't get involved in case.
-- Oct. 7: Gov. Jeb Bush files a federal court brief urging Terri Schiavo be kept alive.
-- Oct. 10: U.S. District Judge Lazzara rules he does not have jurisdiction to intervene in case.
-- Oct. 13: Protesters and Schindler family begin 24-hour vigil at Pinellas Park hospice where Terri Schiavo lives.
-- Oct. 14: 2nd District Court of Appeal again refuses to block tube removal.
-- Oct. 15: Doctors remove feeding tube; Bush pledges to search for possible legal options to resume feedings.
-- Oct. 17: Two state courts reject the Schindler's request to reinsert the feeding tube.
-- Oct. 20: The Florida House of Representatives votes to give governor the power to issue a stay in the feeding tube dispute.
-- Oct. 21: The Senate and House pass a bill allowing Bush to intervene. He signs the bill, called "Terri's Law," then issues an order to reinsert the tube. Morton Plant Hospital begins rehydrating Terri Schiavo, six days after her feeding tube was removed. A judge rejects a request by her husband's attorney to temporarily restrain the governor's order.
-- Dec. 2: An independent guardian concludes there's "no reasonable medical hope" that Terri Schiavo will improve.

2004
-- May 6: Circuit Judge W. Douglas Baird rules the law allowing Bush to intervene is unconstitutional. The governor's attorneys appeal.
-- June 1: 2nd District Court of Appeal agrees to let Michael Schiavo's attorney ask the Florida Supreme Court to take the appeal directly, bypassing the 2nd DCA.
-- June 16: In a 4-3 order, the Florida Supreme Court agrees to take the appeal.
-- Aug. 31: Oral arguments in the case are nationally televised.
-- Sept. 23: Florida Supreme Court strikes down "Terri's Law" as unconstitutional.
-- Oct. 22: Greer refuses to hold a new trial based on recent comments from Pope John Paul II calling the withdrawal of food and hydration from the disabled a sin.
-- Dec. 1: Bush's attorney ask the U.S. Supreme Court to take the case on "Terri's Law."
-- Dec. 29: The 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's decision not to grant a new trial.

2005
-- Jan. 24: U.S. Supreme Court refuses to hear the appeal brought by the governor's attorneys.
-- Jan. 28: An attorney for the family of Terri Schiavo asks Greer to allow him to proceed with a motion arguing that her due-process rights were violated because she has never had her own attorney.
-- Feb. 22: The 2nd District Court of Appeal clears the way for Michael Schiavo to remove Terri's feeding tube, then Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer issued an emergency stay blocking removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube for until 5 p.m. the next day.
-- Feb. 23: Greer extended the stay by two days, saying he needed time to decide whether her parents should be allowed to pursue other legal and medical options.
-- Feb. 24: An attorney for the Schindler's says the Department of Children & Families is seeking a 60-day stay on the removal the feeding tube while it investigates new allegations of abuse and neglect.
-- Feb. 25: Greer gives Michael Schiavo permission to order the removal of the feeding tube at 1 p.m. March 18.
-- March 10: Greer rules the State Department of Children & Families can't intervene in the Terri Schiavo right-to-die case.
-- March 16: 2nd District Court of Appeal refuses to block the expected removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. The U.S. House of Representatives passes a bill aimed at keeping her alive.
-- March 17: The Florida House passes a bill intended to keep Terri Schiavo alive.

 

[Riprorin]

Why didn't he bring this up her wish to die in the malpractice trial rahter than saying he would keep his vows and take care of her?

There's no evidence that she said such a thing.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Why didn't he bring this up her wish to die in the malpractice trial rahter than saying he would keep his vows and take care of her?

There's no evidence that she said such a thing.

It was irrelevent to the case at hand, and probably would have hurt his attempt to get Terri justice.

The evidence is Michael and in others:

Was Michael the only person who testified about Terri's supposed statements on her views about living on life support?

No, others did as well, and when making the decision in the case, the trial judge took into account all of that testimony and additional evidence. As the Second District explained:

We note that the guardianship court's original order expressly relied upon and found credible the testimony of witnesses other than Mr. Schiavo or the Schindlers. We recognize that Mrs. Schiavo's earlier oral statements were important evidence when deciding whether she would choose in February 2000 to withdraw life-prolonging procedures. See § 765.401(3), Fla. Stat. (2000); In re Guardianship of Browning, 568 So. 2d 4, 16. Nevertheless, the trial judge, acting as her proxy, also properly considered evidence of Mrs. Schiavo's values, personality, and her own decision-making process.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

 

[Tylanner]

Congress votes to let judge decide; Bush endorses bill

Text

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Tylanner
Congress votes to let judge decide; Bush endorses bill

Text

To bad baby Sun Hudson didn't get a second chance like Terri. Then again the Texas law that prevented his mother from presenting any evidence to save her son was signed by none other then Bush himself.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory/3084934

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

No wonder Bush wanted the Taliban out of the picture, he didn't like competition in the religious freaks department!

To use his own 'God' argument: If God didn't want her to die she wouldn't, even if they stopped feeding the vegetable. If she dies, apparently they have been going against God's will all that time by keeping the body 'alive'.

Her brain is already gone, if machines simulating a heartbeat and breathing are all that is required for someone to live, then you can get a beheaded corpse back to live too. Guess we should start doing that then?

 

[realsup]

Liberals always try to kill the weak and helpless.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: realsup
Liberals always try to kill the weak and helpless.

You must be hiding very well if that is the case.

 

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: realsup
Liberals always try to kill the weak and helpless.

Which is why we're about to execute you...

 

[soundforbjt]

Does anyone here know of anybody who has expressed a desire to be kept alive indefinately if in a vegetable state?

 

[realsup]

Originally posted by: Taejin

Originally posted by: realsup
Liberals always try to kill the weak and helpless.

Which is why we're about to execute you...

Video

If someone close to me was i that condition. I would take care of them not kill them.

Guess that makes me weak.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: realsup

Originally posted by: Taejin

Originally posted by: realsup
Liberals always try to kill the weak and helpless.

Which is why we're about to execute you...

Video

If someone close to me was i that condition. I would take care of them not kill them.

Guess that makes me weak.

She responds the same way when they place her in front of a wall for 3 hours and no one else is in the room. There goes that theory.

 

[realsup]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: realsup

Originally posted by: Taejin

Originally posted by: realsup
Liberals always try to kill the weak and helpless.

Which is why we're about to execute you...

Video

If someone close to me was i that condition. I would take care of them not kill them.

Guess that makes me weak.

She responds the same way when they place her in front of a wall for 3 hours and no one else is in the room. There goes that theory.

What are you talking about? How does that change taking care of someone?

What theory? Hello is this thing on?

 

[mhillary]

Nobody deserves to die that way.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: mhillary
Nobody deserves to die that way.

...but if you choose to pass away should you reach a PVS state, it's the only way to die.

edit: before you take republicans' word for how torturous starving to death is, do some research on how they do it. she will receive drugs = no pain. her mouth will be moisturized because she is in a hospice. keeping her alive is more torture for her than letting her pass away.