Taking the Water Cooling Plunge

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dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
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Here's a photo depicting the current tube-less setup.
Are those Monsoon angle fittings? I like their compression fittings but I can't say that I like their angle fittings, too bulky. I wouldn't get them unless you have a specific purpose, like their Lightport fittings. I don't have an image in my mind how your flow would be like but I think it would look neater without any angle fittings.

I might just be looking at things in a more general way. I consider the 800D to be more of an enthusiast case given its size and accessibility. To me, enthusiasts are the type that would probably use custom water cooling, so you would expect a case like that to provide more support.
While it is geared towards enthusiasts, there are many levels of enthusiast out there. Only a small percentage of enthusiast who buys a Corsair 800D would go with custom watercooling while the rest buys them because they can afford it.

I define an enthusiast case to be something that is priced beyond a CM Elite series. The bigger majority of PC users with a tight budget wouldn't pay more than what a CM Elite series would cost as they will spend more on better components(CPU, GPU, HDD).
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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Are those Monsoon angle fittings? I like their compression fittings but I can't say that I like their angle fittings, too bulky. I wouldn't get them unless you have a specific purpose, like their Lightport fittings. I don't have an image in my mind how your flow would be like but I think it would look neater without any angle fittings.

Yep, those are Monsoon angled fittings. I mostly went with them because I went with the Monsoon compression fittings after reading some good remarks about them. The one nice thing about the angled fittings is you can buy them with the same outer diameter as your fitting. I do agree though that they are kind of bulky. I'm guessing that's because the normal version is actually just the light port version with the back (permanently) plugged. So, you end up having that bit at the back that doesn't really do you any good.

As for the use of them, I think they may be necessary. My planned loop is reservoir - CPU - 120x1 - GPU - 120x3. The problem is that I had to rotate the CPU block because the CPU outlet was just too close to the 120x1 to really use it with the fittings that I had available. So, that means to go from reservoir to CPU, I need to cross over the outlet now. I already had to cross over the memory anyway, so I need to ensure that I can easily reach the CPU inlet (on the left of that photo). Also, I really need that 90 degree fitting on the 120x1 because the GPU's inlet (note: the one that Watercool.de recommends to use as the inlet) is pretty much directly below that 90 degree fitting.

Personally, I wish that they weren't really that necessary, because they aren't terribly cheap. :p

While it is geared towards enthusiasts, there are many levels of enthusiast out there. Only a small percentage of enthusiast who buys a Corsair 800D would go with custom watercooling while the rest buys them because they can afford it.

I define an enthusiast case to be something that is priced beyond a CM Elite series. The bigger majority of PC users with a tight budget wouldn't pay more than what a CM Elite series would cost as they will spend more on better components(CPU, GPU, HDD).

Ah, that's a good point. I mean... I bought the 800D a few years ago mostly because I like bigger cases. I'm 6'1" and have large hands, so working in puny cases is just arduous. I also tend to prefer cases that avoid looking gaudy like that new Silverstone case that they reviewed on Anandtech. My goodness, that case is UGLY! I never bought the 800D expecting to do anything more than maybe AIO water cooling. Heck, when I was considering the 900D, my main thought was that it fixed some of the problems that I have with the 800D like the side panel bowing out (that just bothers me more than causes a problem).

Anyway, I'm going to go purchase a dremel soon and see if I can finish this case today! I'd like to have everything (including leak testing) done by tomorrow evening as this Zenbook Ultrabook doesn't cut it for most things... especially since it likes to overheat and blue screen. :(
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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Pretty safe to say that things have not gone well. First thing to note is that the second radiator was not a good idea. It has really just complicated the whole build. I think things would have worked better with the 120x3 radiator rotated around with the fittings at the back and just used that instead. I also think that I would have been better off without a bay reservoir, but I wish someone would've actually told me why. What I've found out is that it really sucks working on one. Tightening compression fittings on a bay reservoir is just an exercise in futility. I've lost 2-3 fittings just because of misaligned threads due to the close proximity to the 120x3 radiator (hose bends causing the cap to not align) and being unable to really see inside.

There's a part of me that just wants to wash my hands of this mess. My PC has been down since Thursday, and I really don't care much for the hassle. I've always wanted to try water cooling, but I'm just not all that convinced that it was really a good idea. I think I'd be happier just buying some large air cooler and a GTX 780 and avoiding all that hassle. Maybe I can recoup some of the costs through selling the lightly used gear? :\
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
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First thing to note is that the second radiator was not a good idea. It has really just complicated the whole build. I think things would have worked better with the 120x3 radiator rotated around with the fittings at the back and just used that instead.
It will fit, you just haven't figured out the best way to do it. There's a lot of trial and error to make it fit together. Anyway, the back isn't the only place to install a 120mm radiator. Its possible to install it in the middle bottom partition.

I also think that I would have been better off without a bay reservoir, but I wish someone would've actually told me why. What I've found out is that it really sucks working on one.
:sneaky:

Tightening compression fittings on a bay reservoir is just an exercise in futility. I've lost 2-3 fittings just because of misaligned threads due to the close proximity to the 120x3 radiator (hose bends causing the cap to not align) and being unable to really see inside.
Breaking fittings ain't as bad as it seems. Stripping the threads of the radiator, now that's gonna cause a lot of problems. Place the reservoir at the lowest point of your 5.25" bays. That should give it sufficient distance from the radiator and bend radius to prevent it from kinking. Also, make the tubing slightly longer to give it some slack. If you're using Monsoon fittings, it might be difficult. Standard hand tighten compression shouldn't be too difficult.

Another way is to do it in reverse, affix the tube to the reservoir with fittings first before attaching it to the radiator. That should help with the visibility.

I've always wanted to try water cooling, but I'm just not all that convinced that it was really a good idea.
Don't call it a good idea till you've tried hard enough. :colbert:
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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Since I didn't spot any leaking in the leak test, I decided to give the machine a go. Everything certainly works fine, but I'm still not satisfied. Maybe because the tubing looks like a horrid mess and the fan wires look even worse? I ran Unengine to get a look at temperatures. The PWM setting in the BIOS for the pump is Silent (SpeedFan lists it at ~1450 RPMs) and my ambient temperature is 26.1C*. My water temps were about 31-32C and the GPU was around 39-40C. Those are certainly pretty decent temps and the noise was fairly non-existent.

The Lamptron controller seems to be reacting to the 3-fan hook-up fairly weirdly though. I've seen some wildly fluctuating values on it compared to the single hook-up for the 120x1 radiator. Is that just purely related to how it handles multiple devices on the same line?

I'm also a bit annoyed with the Koolance QD3. I thought that when I read that it was G1/4 threaded, that meant I could screw it into a G1/4 port. No, it has an internal G1/4 thread on it. I just tossed one of my misthreaded compression fittings that I couldn't separate (without potential damage) on a tube to hold it on. :\

*Note: In case anyone translates 26C to Fahrenheit, yes it is really almost 80F up here. Even with most of the vents closed downstairs, most of the air from the AC doesn't get up here. :(

It will fit, you just haven't figured out the best way to do it. There's a lot of trial and error to make it fit together. Anyway, the back isn't the only place to install a 120mm radiator. Its possible to install it in the middle bottom partition.

I don't mean that it doesn't fit, but rather that it just makes everything more complicated.



I know... I know! :p Although, arguably, both would have meant that I had to modify my case. I saw one guy drill a hole in the back to mount his tube reservoir in the 800D. I actually never expected to need to modify this case for the bay reservoir, but I definitely took a dremel to quite a bit of this thing. I also need to go out and buy some larger washers, because the small, flimsy ones that come with the reservoir aren't holding up on the back side of the 800D where those little nubs used to be.


Breaking fittings ain't as bad as it seems. Stripping the threads of the radiator, now that's gonna cause a lot of problems. Place the reservoir at the lowest point of your 5.25" bays. That should give it sufficient distance from the radiator and bend radius to prevent it from kinking. Also, make the tubing slightly longer to give it some slack. If you're using Monsoon fittings, it might be difficult. Standard hand tighten compression shouldn't be too difficult.

It has to go at the second lowest point because I'm one of those silly people that still clings to optical drives. Given the length of the optical drive, there's no way that it can go anywhere above the reservoir. It's not really that the hose is kinking, but rather that the clamps just aren't angled to go on straight because of the bend, and I really can't see it.

I am using Monsoon fittings. :(

Another way is to do it in reverse, affix the tube to the reservoir with fittings first before attaching it to the radiator. That should help with the visibility.


Don't call it a good idea till you've tried hard enough. :colbert:

Heh, I think I should be clear and say that it's not a good idea for me. I tend to be the type that just wants things to work, and as long as it doesn't really hamper me much, I'm fine it with. However, I've also always wanted to try water cooling, because I've found it interesting. I can tell you right now that as much I think that I can overclock this or that, I'll probably never do it.

Honestly, the messiness of the tubes is probably what bugs me the most. I took a photo of it: http://i.imgur.com/komK6UU.jpg

I haven't really routed the wires or anything, so you can ignore those. I just tossed in a molex line for the time being, and I need to see what's up with the reservoir's power connector. It's having some issues with the pins staying seated. Oh, and I assume the little bubbles in the reservoir in this photo is something that I should fix? They're just sort of... affixed to the front and back of the reservoir.
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
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Honestly, the messiness of the tubes is probably what bugs me the most. I took a photo of it: http://i.imgur.com/komK6UU.jpg
You've placed the CPU block in a horizontal position, probably the right orientation according to the manual but not for aesthetics. Bear in mind that the position of the 4 motherboard holes creates a perfect square. This means that the entire CPU block is rotatable. My suggestion is to rotate it as such that the inlet will be at the top while the outlet will be at the bottom. This not only creates a straighter path from the pump to the CPU block, it will create a shorter outlet path.

Based on my estimation, its also possible to reverse the position of the back 120mm radiator. This makes for a shorter path from the CPU outlet to the radiator, with a 45 degree angle. It can also create a very short angled path to the GPU inlet but it might take a lot of fiddling to get it right.

Finally, the position of your drain port should be used as the outlet of the GPU while using the 90 degree fitting. Optional approach is to use the QD inline with that tube section that goes back to the front of the case. It kills 2 birds with 1 stone and it certainly looks better than a limp drain port.

Oh, and I assume the little bubbles in the reservoir in this photo is something that I should fix? They're just sort of... affixed to the front and back of the reservoir.
It will disappear after some time. You can make them go faster if you agitate the water but unnecessary to do so.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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To give you an idea of my threading woes, here's a photo of the compression fittings on the GPU block. The one on the right is fine and seated quite nicely, but the one on the left? Awful, and it's actually on there quite tight. I have a feeling that similar to the other ones, if I try to loosen it, it will probably pull the barb with it. I found that I had the most trouble in places with odd bends. Although the CPU-to-120x1 has probably the most awkward connection and it's fine. :p

You've placed the CPU block in a horizontal position, probably the right orientation according to the manual but not for aesthetics. Bear in mind that the position of the 4 motherboard holes creates a perfect square. This means that the entire CPU block is rotatable. My suggestion is to rotate it as such that the inlet will be at the top while the outlet will be at the bottom. This not only creates a straighter path from the pump to the CPU block, it will create a shorter outlet path.

I orientated it in that direction because this review showed a 2 degree difference that way.

It might help to clean it up a little bit if I did that, but ultimately, I think it will still look like a bit of a mess. If I really wanted something cleaner, I'd probably have to drop the bay reservoir, swap the 120x3 reservoir's orientation, and consider moving the 120x1 reservoir. The only viable solution for the latter would be removing the bottom drive caddy section, but that means I would need to buy the SATA3 upgrade for the hot swap section since putting a fast SSD on SATA2 is just naughty.

Based on my estimation, its also possible to reverse the position of the back 120mm radiator. This makes for a shorter path from the CPU outlet to the radiator, with a 45 degree angle. It can also create a very short angled path to the GPU inlet but it might take a lot of fiddling to get it right.

That's what I was originally going to do, and I even had it screwed in that way. Although, when I saw the 120x1 rad -> GPU path, I knew it just wouldn't work. The two were so ridiculously close together and at such an angle, I didn't think that I would ever get a good run.

Finally, the position of your drain port should be used as the outlet of the GPU while using the 90 degree fitting. Optional approach is to use the QD inline with that tube section that goes back to the front of the case. It kills 2 birds with 1 stone and it certainly looks better than a limp drain port.

Why would I want to use the bottom of the GPU as the outlet when it goes to the 120x3 radiator?

Honestly, my idea for the drain port wasn't supposed to look like that. :( It was supposed to be a single QD3 hanging off the GPU block. Then, when I wanted to drain, I hooked up the other part of the QD3, which has a tube attached to it. The problem is that the QD3's G1/4 thread is actually on the inside, which means that I need a coupler to attach it.

Also, that drain port was just a quick hodgepodge. I realized when I found that I was missing an o-ring that I also forgot to put the drain in. I was a bit irked with myself... until my engineer nature finally kicked in! "Wait... if I can't just remove the plug because it's the lowest point, then I can just turn the whole tower over and it will be the highest point!" Super-duper logic there. :biggrin: Of course, that wasn't full-proof because I never fully tightened the plugs on the reservoir since I was still taking them off randomly. "Hey, where's all this water coming from?" Yeah, I had a fun day. :p

That white 90-degree fitting was one of the things that I used for filling the reservoir, but given Monsoon is shipping their reservoirs with free silver bullets, I left those in instead.
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
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I orientated it in that direction because this review showed a 2 degree difference that way.
Doesn't this review seems to be in favor of my method considering that a 90 degree offset from the conventional mounting resulted in 2 degrees cooler?

That's what I was originally going to do, and I even had it screwed in that way. Although, when I saw the 120x1 rad -> GPU path, I knew it just wouldn't work. The two were so ridiculously close together and at such an angle, I didn't think that I would ever get a good run.
If the radiator fits in reverse without the PCI slot bump causing any issues, place it directly to the case and fans on the other side. In other words, its done in the same way with the rivets being a problem. You can overcome the rivet issue by stacking washers as tall as the rivet and mount it with that small gap. This should give more distance(radiator outlet - GPU inlet) to work with.

The distance isn't even that short from what I've seen. Routing tubes from CPU block to motherboard blocks are some of the shortest I've seen.

Why would I want to use the bottom of the GPU as the outlet when it goes to the 120x3 radiator?
Illustration of what I meant, the purple being the path that I want and it will not limp and look better once you've cut the tube to a shorter length.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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AHAHAHAHAH this is why i only used compression fittings on 1 build
After that i never looked back.... i hate compression fittings.

Aikouka make sure u match the cpu on the review on orientation.
Cpu's of different like can require a different orientation due to where the die is located and where the actual cores are in relationship to your waterflow.

The bottom outlet would also save u that headache of having 2 compressions next to each other.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
When you guys drain a system, do you just open up the fill port (to let air in) and then open up the drain port or do you run the pump until the water level gets close to too low for the pump? In my case, that would be the water line at the impeller's opening. When I was draining mine, I noticed that I had a hell of a time getting it to actually drain. Maybe that's because the fill port on my system is the reservoir, which isn't actually the highest point in the system.

I also ordered a coupler, which should let me fix the ugliness of the drain line. I noticed that Performance PCs also carries the two upgrades for the 800D (hot swap SATA 3 and front panel USB3), so I ordered those as well.

Doesn't this review seems to be in favor of my method considering that a 90 degree offset from the conventional mounting resulted in 2 degrees cooler?

+

Aikouka make sure u match the cpu on the review on orientation.
Cpu's of different like can require a different orientation due to where the die is located and where the actual cores are in relationship to your waterflow.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the comments said to orient it perpendicular to the memory, but I think that may not be correct.

Here's a photo of the Haswell chip in the socket:
http://cdn.overclock.net/e/e5/900x900px-LL-e59875b6_IMG_2216.jpeg

...and here's the chip delidded:
http://cdn.overclock.net/d/dc/350x700px-LL-dcca1248_IMG_2197.jpeg

So, the actual die should be vertical in orientation. Hmm maybe I'll rotate it when I start tinkering with it. The review only showed a 2C difference, so I won't worry too much right now.

If the radiator fits in reverse without the PCI slot bump causing any issues, place it directly to the case and fans on the other side. In other words, its done in the same way with the rivets being a problem. You can overcome the rivet issue by stacking washers as tall as the rivet and mount it with that small gap. This should give more distance(radiator outlet - GPU inlet) to work with.

I'll have to look at the case again to make sure there weren't any other issues beyond the rivets. I do recall it being very, very close to the expansion card slots.

Honestly, I'm kind of tempted now to modify the case even more by removing the bottom drive bays. I did buy that dremel, so I ought to put it to use! :biggrin: Anyway, I figure that if I remove that drive bay, I can put a radiator (maybe a 120x2 instead?) down there. I'd probably also drill some new grommet holes to make routing pipes to a radiator down there easier. In that case, I'd probably go... reservoir -> CPU -> 120x3 -> GPU -> 120x2 -> reservoir. The only problem with that is I can just imagine how ridiculously long some of the runs would be to reach the bay reservoir!

The distance isn't even that short from what I've seen. Routing tubes from CPU block to motherboard blocks are some of the shortest I've seen.

Yeah, I've seen those too where people will use extenders to put them at about the same height. Although, I think that it's easier to go with two ports that are mounted on the same plane. I'm going from a vertically-mounted object to a horizontally-mounted object. :(

Illustration of what I meant, the purple being the path that I want and it will not limp and look better once you've cut the tube to a shorter length.

The only bad thing about that is that I'd need to buy another quick disconnect to use for when I want to drain it. However, I ordered a coupling that should let me mount the QD3 directly to the GPU. So, then it will only be a slight black protrusion from the GPU.

AHAHAHAHAH this is why i only used compression fittings on 1 build
After that i never looked back.... i hate compression fittings.

Ugh, I know what you mean. I'll probably go with the standard and far cheaper barb + clamp.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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Alright, so I think smack was certainly right as I just decided to make a rather big (rather literal there too...) change. I decided to switch from the 800D to the 900D. The biggest factor is that it's not really possible to vertically mount a radiator at the bottom of the 800D. I can put a 480 and a 360 on the bottom of the 900D. The cool part is that the ports should line up, so I can run a line to one radiator, and then go straight across to the other radiator! How perfect! :)

I mentioned in that other thread that I'm also considering adding another pump to the system. I do think that my Swiftech D5 variant is capable of pushing the water fast enough by itself, but I'm not running it at full strength. I prefer keeping things rather quiet, but still having good performance. I think it would also help if I could turn the fans up a bit, but they're about at that inaudible threshold right now. Would I see a nice benefit if I also added a second set of fans for push-pull at this same low speed?

Oh, one bad thing about the 900D is that it only has four 5-1/4 drive bays. I have the fan controller, my BD-RW drive and the reservoir, which takes up four. First of all, I really need one slot above the reservoir to fill it, and I want to add the flow meter + display, which will take another 5-1/4 bay. So, I may end up switching to a tube reservoir. Okay, dma... take your shot! :p
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
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Alright, so I think smack was certainly right as I just decided to make a rather big (rather literal there too...) change. I decided to switch from the 800D to the 900D. The biggest factor is that it's not really possible to vertically mount a radiator at the bottom of the 800D. I can put a 480 and a 360 on the bottom of the 900D. The cool part is that the ports should line up, so I can run a line to one radiator, and then go straight across to the other radiator! How perfect! :)

I mentioned in that other thread that I'm also considering adding another pump to the system. I do think that my Swiftech D5 variant is capable of pushing the water fast enough by itself, but I'm not running it at full strength. I prefer keeping things rather quiet, but still having good performance. I think it would also help if I could turn the fans up a bit, but they're about at that inaudible threshold right now. Would I see a nice benefit if I also added a second set of fans for push-pull at this same low speed?

Oh, one bad thing about the 900D is that it only has four 5-1/4 drive bays. I have the fan controller, my BD-RW drive and the reservoir, which takes up four. First of all, I really need one slot above the reservoir to fill it, and I want to add the flow meter + display, which will take another 5-1/4 bay. So, I may end up switching to a tube reservoir. Okay, dma... take your shot! :p

900D is easy, just use two hugely long radiators on bottom side 1 and bottom side 2.

It's even cheaper (in terms of radiators) this way.

Also, you aren't blowing hot air onto your components while having direct, unobstructed airflow for the radiators.

Pumps are like fans, add as many as you like, it won't hurt.

Push/pull is also always louder for the same amount of performance than just adding more rads.

Now that you have a 900D, you're probably going to be using this case and water cooling setup until desktops stop being ATX (or cease existing).

Just get as many rads as you think you need/want, and leave the option to push/pull for later if you need more cooling power.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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900D is easy, just use two hugely long radiators on bottom side 1 and bottom side 2.

It's even cheaper (in terms of radiators) this way.

Also, you aren't blowing hot air onto your components while having direct, unobstructed airflow for the radiators.

Yup, that's my plan. I figure if I want to do anything crazier in the future, I've also got a nice spot on the top for a 480! That's my thought about the positioning. My only option on the 800D was to lie the radiator down, which means I'm either blowing the air up into the case or out the bottom.

Pumps are like fans, add as many as you like, it won't hurt.

I'm trying to figure out exactly where I'm going to put stuff.

Push/pull is also always louder for the same amount of performance than just adding more rads.

Well, I don't know if I would add more radiators into the system just yet. I mean... I could.

Anyway, my thought is that I turn my fans down a bit to reduce the overall noise, so I do hurt my performance because of that. However, going push-pull should help that, right?

Now that you have a 900D, you're probably going to be using this case and water cooling setup until desktops stop being ATX (or cease existing).

Well, my biggest problem is... I don't know where I'm going to put it! :p I like putting my case on my desk, and my desk is about 2 feet deep. So, it just fits my 800D, but the 900D is nearly 30" deep. I might have to find some really deep side-table (that has a lot of strength!!) or build one myself.

I'm also not sure what I want to do for a reservoir. My Monsoon reservoir works fine, but I just won't have the room for it. I know that I'll have room to mount things. I'm thinking about going with something like this dual-D5 top from EK.

EDIT:

What I think I really need to do is drop this 27" Dell monitor. The thing is a space heater!
 
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dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
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Okay, dma... take your shot! :p
tumblr_mk31vklp5O1s9n4cro1_500.gif


Your budget is starting to get out of hand and turn into something really expensive. The Corsair 900D is nice but I would rather pay for a Little Devil PC-V8 to replace my Corsair 400R(which will have two externally top mounted 480mm radiators before its replaced).

Here's a little poison teaser for you. :sneaky:
8.jpg
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Your budget is starting to get out of hand and turn into something really expensive. The Corsair 900D is nice but I would rather pay for a Little Devil PC-V8 to replace my Corsair 400R(which will have two externally top mounted 480mm radiators before its replaced).

Budget? What's that? :p I'll admit that it's a bit pricey, but what I've never mentioned is that I'm offsetting a good bit of the cost by selling a bunch of old tech (note: "old" to me is 1-2 years :p). I have a bunch of stuff that just lies around, so I might as well get rid of it and put that money toward something that I actually use.

Anyway! One of the things that I'm trying to do is to reuse as much as possible. I didn't want to have to replace the bay reservoir, but it's just not plausible in this build anymore. I probably could've made it work with that Koolance reservoir, and then I could have easily added a second pump with very little effort. I would've probably had to make some sacrifices like removing my Blu-Ray drive or something like that.

Out of curiosity... would you ever buy a used pump? I could certainly save some money that way, but whether you trust it or not is a different story!

Oh, and that case is rather nice, but it's even more expensive than the 900D! :eek:
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
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would you ever buy a used pump?
Well, I never had the need to purchase a used pump, nor would I consider it. But if I had to, it would only be a secondary pump and it wasn't used with other coolants other than pure distilled.

Being a used item, it certainly has its reliability issues and with it being a secondary, it still offers some redundancy despite being less reliable. If the pump was used with special coolants(colored, glitter, anti freezing, anti rust), there could be an issue of the substance damaging the pump internals. I would still give it a considerable amount of flushing before it goes anywhere near my loop.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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Well, I never had the need to purchase a used pump, nor would I consider it. But if I had to, it would only be a secondary pump and it wasn't used with other coolants other than pure distilled.

Being a used item, it certainly has its reliability issues and with it being a secondary, it still offers some redundancy despite being less reliable. If the pump was used with special coolants(colored, glitter, anti freezing, anti rust), there could be an issue of the substance damaging the pump internals. I would still give it a considerable amount of flushing before it goes anywhere near my loop.

Yeah, I'm a little weary about it. I tend to prefer to buy new vs. used in a lot of situations. I mean... it would be nice to save the money as I can get two pumps for slightly more than the cost of one. I asked the seller about the coolant used, and he said that it was distilled water + Swiftech HydrX with a kill coil.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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edit... wait thats not PC...

any updates of your project?


Also why would one use HydrX + Silver at the same time?
That makes absolutely no sense... >.<

The glycol coats metals... so it would coat the silver and now what have you gained?
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
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edit... wait thats not PC...

any updates of your project?

Well, I'm waiting for the 900D to come in. As an interesting note, it appears that Amazon realizes that people "abused" the $3.99 one-day shipping option with heavy items as the case's options were $25 (Saturday) or $15 (one-day). I thought that was interesting since I've used the $3.99 shipping on heavy items in the past such as my TV stand downstairs.

Anyway, my thought is that with the 900D, I can space out my build a little better and avoid some of the awkward piping issues that I have with my 800D. I'm going to put a 120x4 radiator at the bottom along with my current 120x3 radiator. I'm still going to use a single loop at this point because I only have a single GPU. If I go multi-GPU at some point, I'll probably add another loop just for the CPU with its own radiator at the top. However, I don't have any plans for that at the moment!

My current water cooling build is working fine from what I can tell, but as I mentioned, I don't have a flow meter. I have noticed wildly variable water temperatures, which makes me wonder if part of that is due to low flow rate. My pump is controlled via PWM, and that's currently set to "Silent" in the BIOS. I'm thinking about just going with two pumps, which should let me run at that lower speed, but the two combined give me the flow rate that I am looking for.

I'm also looking into purchasing these used pumps that I found. I can pretty much get two Swiftech MCP655s for slightly more than the price of one. One is an older pump (~six years old), which might be bad as I'm not sure what the average life span of a pump is. The other is only a year or two old.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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What do you mean wildly variable? Have you been experiences wildly variable ambient temperatures? I remember the summer and "winter" being differences of like 12C idle in the "winter" to like 34C idle in the summer. But I also did not ever use a heater in my 4 years in Alabama.

As far as used pumps, I would probably shy away. My pumps are fairly old and have run pretty much 24/7, but I wouldn't trust the abuse anyone else had put them through.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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What do you mean wildly variable? Have you been experiences wildly variable ambient temperatures? I remember the summer and "winter" being differences of like 12C idle in the "winter" to like 34C idle in the summer. But I also did not ever use a heater in my 4 years in Alabama.

I might just be thinking about it wrong. My assumption is that if I'm not doing anything intensive (e.g. browsing the web), my temps should stay fairly calm if my flow is good. This is especially since my radiator is right before my reservoir (where my sensor is). My ambient temperatures do go up with my Dell monitor on. It's a 27" with a cathode-based backlight. :/

As far as used pumps, I would probably shy away. My pumps are fairly old and have run pretty much 24/7, but I wouldn't trust the abuse anyone else had put them through.

Yeah, I didn't end up buying it. If both pumps were about two years old, I would have been okay, but six years seems like too much. I just went with another PWM pump from FrozenCPU.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
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I might just be thinking about it wrong. My assumption is that if I'm not doing anything intensive (e.g. browsing the web), my temps should stay fairly calm if my flow is good. This is especially since my radiator is right before my reservoir (where my sensor is). My ambient temperatures do go up with my Dell monitor on. It's a 27" with a cathode-based backlight. :/
Do you mean your temperatures aren't 'normalizing' for lack of a better term? Like they are jumping around in light usage. That shouldn't be happening. You sensor might be the issue. I was thinking of your CPU temp, not your water temp sensor. From my understand, the temperature of the water should be almost equal in every point in the loop. I could be incorrect about this, but I don't believe so.


Yeah, I didn't end up buying it. If both pumps were about two years old, I would have been okay, but six years seems like too much. I just went with another PWM pump from FrozenCPU.
That is probably for the best. I have only ever had one pump fail on me (and it was in a single pump system!) and it was a pain. It somehow spewed black, oil like residue all over my loop. I had to replace everything not copper because it was stained. =(
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Do you mean your temperatures aren't 'normalizing' for lack of a better term? Like they are jumping around in light usage. That shouldn't be happening. You sensor might be the issue. I was thinking of your CPU temp, not your water temp sensor. From my understand, the temperature of the water should be almost equal in every point in the loop. I could be incorrect about this, but I don't believe so.

Yep, that's what I mean. The delta in the temperatures isn't huge, but after reading that cooling device order doesn't really matter much, I did expect everything to equalize out and to see very little variance. The temperature sensor is located in the unused inlet, which might be causing some of the issues... I'm not sure.

I did order a flow meter finally, so there won't be any more "the disturbance in the force isn't great enough!" sort of measurements. :p I'll be using that in the 900D build though, which I'm still trying to plot out the tubing in my head. Since this adjusted build is using a tube reservoir instead of a bay reservoir, I'm not sure if I'll be able to run from the pump to the CPU. I'm thinking about doing Res -> Pump -> CPU -> GPU -> Rad-480 -> Rad-360 -> Res. Both radiators will be at the bottom of the case.

That is probably for the best. I have only ever had one pump fail on me (and it was in a single pump system!) and it was a pain. It somehow spewed black, oil like residue all over my loop. I had to replace everything not copper because it was stained. =(

:eek: Are you forced to replace it when something like that happens or is that really by choice?
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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:eek: Are you forced to replace it when something like that happens or is that really by choice?

I wasn't sure what the residue even was, so I just took apart my entire loop and replaced what I couldn't clean. It all came off my blocks, so that wasn't a problem, but my tubing was stained (luckily it was clear, so I could easily tell) and my res was stained as well. I couldn't even scrub the stuff off when I took everything apart. I just assumed the worst and bought new tubing, pump, and res.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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So, I ran into an interesting question with the 900D. Right now, my 800D is on my desk, which is pretty big in itself (a 72" L-Desk). However, the 800D barely fits on it, and all know that the 900D is Goliath compared to the 800D. So, the 900D was pretty much a no-go for going atop my desk. I'm not really a fan of putting computers on the floor. I spent awhile at sites like Amazon, Home Depot, Lowes and Sears looking for items that would work well. I looked at stands, file carts, smaller TV stands, various other carts, and after what had to have been hours of searching, I came across my holy grail! I kind of wanted about double that height off the ground, but the other dimensions are great. It's 30x19 and the 900D is 29.7x14.2. So, it's a bit wider, but the length is perfect. I can easily wheel out the case whenever I want to get behind it, and if I ever decide to move, I now have a dolly. 1 stone hath slain two birds! :awe:

I wasn't sure what the residue even was, so I just took apart my entire loop and replaced what I couldn't clean. It all came off my blocks, so that wasn't a problem, but my tubing was stained (luckily it was clear, so I could easily tell) and my res was stained as well. I couldn't even scrub the stuff off when I took everything apart. I just assumed the worst and bought new tubing, pump, and res.

I'm not sure exactly how the pumps are built, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's a lubricant -- sort of like the stuff in your car's wheel hub.

I was imagining it ruining a lot of your other components too, so that's good to hear at least. After my own foray, I have a pretty good idea how wild water cooling can be, so I wouldn't want to have to replace most of my parts!