Taking the Water Cooling Plunge

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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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Yeah, piano dollies can be quite nice. =) Unless one has to move an actual piano. Even with them, it is a PITA because even a baby grand is stupidly heavy.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
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Top tip! When a thing says what size radiators you can fit, don't listen to someone that says you might be able to fit a larger one in there. :p I watched a bunch of videos on the 900D, and someone said that you could fit a 3x120 at the bottom with the PSU. No, you definitely can't! Although, I guess I could just put it on top, get a 2x120 (not sure if a 2x140 lines up) and go wall to the balls on cooling. Regardless, I'd most likely keep the 3x120 so if I ever go multi-GPU, I'd have another radiator to use so I could seclude the GPU from the CPU.

Anyway! So, I've run into that age old question... where the heck do I mount everything? I decided to try out a PrimoChill reservoir because it matches the motif that I'm going with. What really disappoints me about this reservoir is that I read/watched a bunch of reviews, and they had one major complaint: no plugs. However, those reviews said that PrimoChill would be adding them to all shipping units, but guess what? THERE ARE NO PLUGS!! I'll be sending them a strongly worded letter. :p

My pump housing is the EK D5 Dual Top. I really considered going with two single tops, because I prefer the 90 degree mount, but I wasn't sure how I would "combine" them together easily (with them beside each other). Anyway... more fun for me! :p
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,723
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I watched a bunch of videos on the 900D, and someone said that you could fit a 3x120 at the bottom with the PSU. No, you definitely can't!
What is limiting it from fitting snugly? Thickness? Here's an image showing a 480mm and 240mm at the bottom compartment and it fits well. I don't recall the AX360 being a double thickness radiator nor the fact that you might be doing a push pull, that should leave ample space for all the radiators at the bottom.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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What is limiting it from fitting snugly? Thickness? Here's an image showing a 480mm and 240mm at the bottom compartment and it fits well. I don't recall the AX360 being a double thickness radiator nor the fact that you might be doing a push pull, that should leave ample space for all the radiators at the bottom.

The PSU is the problem. The video mentioning that the longer PSUs (such as Corsair's AX1200i) wouldn't work, but the smaller ones should. I have a smaller one, but it's really a no go. Although, thinking about it, it might be possible if you ensure your modular connectors are as far inward as possible and you don't use the cable routing behind the motherboard. I didn't do an exact test because I my 3x120 is still in my desktop, but I took some measurements, and it looks like the radiator would block almost all of the cable routing opening.

Imagine all the cable collisions that you'd have if you extended that radiator another ~140mm (fan size + extra housing).
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
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Any opinions on mounting pumps using things like velcro? I should be able to mount the dual D5 top at the bottom of the case between the 2x120 radiator and the PSU. It would be even easier if I used my 1x120 radiator at the bottom, which would give me even more room.

Also, what about for mounting a reservoir? This is the mounting system with the PrimoChill reservoir.

I was originally planning on leaving out my 3x120, which would go at the top, but now I'm thinking... why not? I've got it... use it! :p
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
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I have mounted pumps with velcro in the past. You really do need to dampen their vibrations or over a period of a few years the pump will progressively pull the rivets in your case apart and it will start to rattle. So instead these days I mount on foam pump noise dampeners and that removes almost all of the vibrations through the case as well as any noise that was associated with the pump vibrations. I had previously mounted it on aluminium and my case shock so you could feel it putting your hand on the top, soft and absorbing not big and attached to the case strongly is my advice. Just velcro isn't going to be good enough IMO, but then I do use 2 18W DDC ultras so they really shake.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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So, I've been working in the 900D some more, and I have something to say to Corsair...

It's okay for you to not make something tool-less. In some cases, it might even be better to not be!

The main thing I ran into was dealing with the window-side radiator mounts. The mounts aren't installed by default, but they sort of latch in. The bottom mount actually slides in and stays rather well, but the top one... doesn't. It slides out very easily, which can make it quite the pain to work with. You already need a screwdriver to install a radiator anyway, so why not just add an option to screw it in?

The case is definitely a lot nicer though, and I like a lot of the things that they've done. So far, the only other complaint that I have is the lack of a floor in the motherboard area. To be clear, I don't think it needs a full floor like the 800D has, but giving it a few extra horizontal pieces of metal just gives us more places to mount pumps. Maybe adding two to three at about 60-80mm wide would be more than enough.

I have mounted pumps with velcro in the past. You really do need to dampen their vibrations or over a period of a few years the pump will progressively pull the rivets in your case apart and it will start to rattle. So instead these days I mount on foam pump noise dampeners and that removes almost all of the vibrations through the case as well as any noise that was associated with the pump vibrations. I had previously mounted it on aluminium and my case shock so you could feel it putting your hand on the top, soft and absorbing not big and attached to the case strongly is my advice. Just velcro isn't going to be good enough IMO, but then I do use 2 18W DDC ultras so they really shake.

Hmm I should have probably been a bit clearer! Technically, I won't be going from the top to metal to the case. The EK Dual Top that I have mounts the top to a metal mounting bracket using some vibration dampers. Do you think that would be enough if I mounted the metal bracket using something like velcro, or should I go with some anti-vibration stuff anyway?

One other thought is... how well will it come off?
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
I know the ones you mean with the black bits on them. Those where what separated my aluminium block and pump from my case, and over 3 years it shock apart and rattled more and more (a Lian li V2000, a very well made case). Something like these presumably: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...on_Dampening_Mounts_52007.html?tl=g30c107s156

Now I use two of these: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...Universal_Pump_Base_52128.html?tl=g30c107s156. That finally works to dampen all the vibrations and I can only really feel vibrations in the radiators (tubing is carrying the vibrations), but its not enough to shake the case in anyway. I attach the pads using the sticky velcro.

In the past I have stuck a 360 radiator (thermochill PA 120.3) using sticky velcro and I could turn the case upside down they stayed in place, its impressively sticky. When I finally removed them it took a lot of force to get the velcro off and it left a residue behind on boyh the radiators and case that I can't remove and so its permanently sticky.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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I know the ones you mean with the black bits on them. Those where what separated my aluminium block and pump from my case, and over 3 years it shock apart and rattled more and more (a Lian li V2000, a very well made case). Something like these presumably: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...on_Dampening_Mounts_52007.html?tl=g30c107s156

Yeah, that's pretty much what it is. Also, I have and still use a Lian Li V2000, and it's rather surprising to hear how easily that beast could be taken out.

Now I use two of these: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...Universal_Pump_Base_52128.html?tl=g30c107s156. That finally works to dampen all the vibrations and I can only really feel vibrations in the radiators (tubing is carrying the vibrations), but its not enough to shake the case in anyway. I attach the pads using the sticky velcro.

Hmm I saw those, and I was tempted to get them. My only problem is that I don't know whether the pre-drilled holes will work with this stand. That's especially since that foam thing is designed for holding a single pump, but this is a dual-pump top. Amazon has some more generic anti-vibration pads, which might be slightly easier given they use cork, which I can just screw into. Although, the Phobya one isn't really that pricey, so I can probably just buy them and give it a shot. I'm not really rushing this build, so I could probably just order one with my next purchase and see how it would work. If it does look like it will work, I can order another one when I inevitably have to buy more angled fittings and junk. :p

In the past I have stuck a 360 radiator (thermochill PA 120.3) using sticky velcro and I could turn the case upside down they stayed in place, its impressively sticky. When I finally removed them it took a lot of force to get the velcro off and it left a residue behind on boyh the radiators and case that I can't remove and so its permanently sticky.

Hmm so it's a case of sticky residue vs. drilling small holes. Honestly, that's a tough one as both probably reduce the case's value. Although, it's probably easy to ignore small holes as long as I don't mangle the process too much. :p
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
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I'd think some residue could easily be removed with some cleaner and a light abrasive pad. I can't imagine any substance being able to withstand a bit of elbow grease and some nail polish remover.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
It resisted a wire wool and strong cleaning products. After years of being applied its more like having spots of super glue on the case than some usual removable sticky residue. Its strong sticky material, the strongest I have ever seen that can still be removed. That is good for its intended use of course.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I'd think some residue could easily be removed with some cleaner and a light abrasive pad. I can't imagine any substance being able to withstand a bit of elbow grease and some nail polish remover.

Hmm okay. That clears up any reservations about the bottom, but there's still the reservoir. It has such a small area where it would mount to the case that I don't know if Velcro would work terribly well. Although, if I really don't want to drill into the case, I could probably sandwich two pieces of metal together over a larger hole ( cable grommet or whatever ) where said pieces of metal have the screw holes necessary for mounting.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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I would think you could mount it with an adhesive or some sort. I know they have clips to mount them (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/iastunreho.html) that might be easier to mount and deal with than the reservoir itself.

It comes with a mount, but the question is how to mount that to the case. :p

So, what I've noticed is that the grommet holes are bigger than where the screws mount. You can see that in this photo. I would have to get two pieces of metal that would essentially act as a clamp and hold the reservoir on. I kind of like keeping it near those grommets because those are the far-away grommets that aren't close to the motherboard.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
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You could probably find a way to mount it with zip ties if you prefer a more "ghetto" setup and not drilling / adhesive. If you were to drill in the back of the case, I wouldn't see a huge problem because it is really just the MB tray you're drilling in to. Just mark the holes and have at it!
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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So, I think I bought the last things that I needed to finish the (re)build. I bought a few extra angled fittings just in case, but this time, I went with less bulky ones (from Phobya) as per previous suggestions! Hopefully those are good; they're certainly not nearly as pricey as other options.

Oh, and as an update with the PrimoChill reservoir, I contacted them through their support system, and they're sending me some plugs to use.

You could probably find a way to mount it with zip ties if you prefer a more "ghetto" setup and not drilling / adhesive. If you were to drill in the back of the case, I wouldn't see a huge problem because it is really just the MB tray you're drilling in to. Just mark the holes and have at it!

I guess I could drill it since the holes won't be big or really look that out of place. Nothing will probably look worse than how I hacked up my 800D! :biggrin: Would using painter's tape help keep the sides of the hole looking nicer? Plus, this gives me a chance to try out this drill bits that I bought for my dremel!
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
There is a reason I went with the little devil case despite its price. I haven't had to drill a single hole or mod the case in anyway. 3x360 rads went in just fine.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
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Even with a LD case, I can't imagine not having to mod it. Aikouka's problem wasn't so much the rads, but mounting the res. And unless they have some strange extremely modular system, if you want it in a certain place, you're going to have to mod. A dremel is pretty much required for my watercooling. >_>
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Well, to be fair I can't do 3x360 radiators. :p However, I can do 2x480 + 2x120 + 140 without modding! ;) Also, I bet that you could build a case with tube reservoir support. all it really requires are fairly small horizontal slits in the case -- sort of like what they used to use for 5-1/4" bays that let you slide the drive around until it was in the right spot (and you'd tighten the screws completely).

Oh, and I decided that I wasn't done. The nerd in me wasn't satisfied with only upgrading my CPU, so I picked up a used GTX 680 (EVGA and almost all of the warranty is left). I'm normally a bit apprehensive over SLI, but dual 680s still stomps a single 780. I've never actually done SLI before. :eek:
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
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Well, to be fair I can't do 3x360 radiators. :p However, I can do 2x480 + 2x120 + 140 without modding! ;) Also, I bet that you could build a case with tube reservoir support. all it really requires are fairly small horizontal slits in the case -- sort of like what they used to use for 5-1/4" bays that let you slide the drive around until it was in the right spot (and you'd tighten the screws completely).

Oh, and I decided that I wasn't done. The nerd in me wasn't satisfied with only upgrading my CPU, so I picked up a used GTX 680 (EVGA and almost all of the warranty is left). I'm normally a bit apprehensive over SLI, but dual 680s still stomps a single 780. I've never actually done SLI before. :eek:

Finally putting the water cooling to work :D
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Finally putting the water cooling to work :D

What? You mean all those radiators is overkill for a stock i7-4770k and a stock GTX 680? ;)

Although, I'm doing one thing that will probably make people groan a little bit. Normally, I don't like things like LEDs or whatever, but I decided to add a tinsy bit of "bling." I bought one of these LED strings, and I'm going to put it around the bottom as what would almost serve to be the equivalent of PC "ground effect lighting." ...I can hear the groans from here! :biggrin: Although, I have to rig it a bit, because the connector that goes to the expansion slot controller has too little cable until it hits the first LED. So, I bought a two-pin extension cable, that I'll probably splice into that LED cable. I thought it'd be fun to mess with, and it always has an on/off switch. :p
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Hmm I noticed something somewhat interesting. So, I flashed my BIOS on this troublesome motherboard yesterday, which was an adventure in itself, and that reset my settings. That means my fan PWM settings were put back to default so my pump was operating at a much higher speed (probably about double). Remember when I said it looked like the water was barely flowing? Yeah, not so much now. So, what's so interesting about it? Well, I don't know if it's something else, but my temperatures actually seem worse than when my PWM was set to Silent. My water temperatures used to hang between 23-30 (usually around 26-28), but now I'm almost always around 30-32 (my GPU is almost always 29-30 as well). I wouldn't have expected the temperatures to go up.

Also, I've seen people use painter's tape when cutting into a case, but would it be recommend for drilling too? It would let me draw on the case pretty easily.
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,723
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BIOS updating can sometimes result in better performance, which also translates to more performance. Still, the temperature variation isn't that big and can be caused by many different factors(ambient temp, etc) that aren't constant.

Painter's tape is only used to prevent any chance that any debris from causing any damage to the surface that is not worked on, the same applies for drilling. But tape does not make drilling any easier. Using a center punch, make a pilot hole and it'll ensure that the drill bit stays centered rather than straying and doing damage to painted surface.

I wouldn't use a dremel for drilling purposes as it spins too fast and can cause the drill bit to stray like a top. Regular drills are better suited as they have slower speed but higher torque, similar to what you would find on a bench drill press.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Using a center punch, make a pilot hole and it'll ensure that the drill bit stays centered rather than straying and doing damage to painted surface.

Hmmm I do not have any punches, so I'll have to get them I guess!

I wouldn't use a dremel for drilling purposes as it spins too fast and can cause the drill bit to stray like a top. Regular drills are better suited as they have slower speed but higher torque, similar to what you would find on a bench drill press.

I've heard comments about them wiggling a bit... especially if you use the chuck. I actually don't own a drill, so that's why I was considering using the dremel. I guess I could pick up a drill if it's really a problem. :p
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,723
1
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I guess I could pick up a drill if it's really a problem. :p
A dremel is not recommended but could work if using proper techniques. First of course would be to create a pilot hole. Next would be to initially do short pulses rather than setting it on full. Once the hole is big enough, you should be able to use it on semi full speed, which is still faster than a conventional drill at full speed.