Taking the Water Cooling Plunge

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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
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I would recommend a drill, but I suppose a dremel could work for 2 small holes. Dremels don't exactly like steel, at least mine doesn't. The tape helps the metal from not getting beat up, I believe. Plus, it is easier to mark on.

Before, I think your sensor wasn't functioning properly. The water should normalize in temp and not jump around like you were seeing before. Your deltas on CPU and GPU should be much lower.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
A dremel is not recommended but could work if using proper techniques. First of course would be to create a pilot hole. Next would be to initially do short pulses rather than setting it on full. Once the hole is big enough, you should be able to use it on semi full speed, which is still faster than a conventional drill at full speed.
+
I would recommend a drill, but I suppose a dremel could work for 2 small holes. Dremels don't exactly like steel, at least mine doesn't. The tape helps the metal from not getting beat up, I believe. Plus, it is easier to mark on.

I don't exactly have much in the way of power tools at my disposal; I blame it on the lack of a garage to place all my manly wares. :p However, a drill is on my mental list of tools I really should buy. So, maybe I ought to just finally bite the bullet and pick one up.

I'm thinking about going with this Black and Decker one as the reviews on Lowes and Amazon are pretty good. The only negative thing that I can see about it is that it has a 3/8" chuck, so I can't go up to 1/2" drill bits. Probably not a huge deal for someone like me (a "hobbyist" of sorts). It's the same price at Lowes as it is at Amazon, you can get a 10% off Lowes coupon (I used one on my dremel), and I get 5% cash back at Lowes right now. I think the stars have aligned! :p

Before, I think your sensor wasn't functioning properly. The water should normalize in temp and not jump around like you were seeing before. Your deltas on CPU and GPU should be much lower.

According to SpeedFan, my CPU is almost always at 26C and my GPU is almost always the same temperature as the water. For example, my water is 26.8C and my GPU is listed at 26C.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I thought you had said your water temp was fluctuating a good deal.

A good drill is essential in a modder's toolkit.

I think I am going to build my own case next. I can easily guy my 800D if I need 3.5" and 5.25" mounting gear. Just want to find a good MB tray. Gotta design it to take a MO-RA though. >_>
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I thought you had said your water temp was fluctuating a good deal.

I did have more fluctuation than I expected, but I'm not sure if it was out of character or not. The main thing that made me wonder if something was off was that I wasn't expecting much of a delta at all. The reason being was that I was under the impression that the water temperature should pretty much equalize with only slight variances after leaving a block. Also, the water coming into the reservoir has just gone through the 3x120 radiator, so it should be at its coolest point.

I think part of what's helping me is moving my PC to the floor. In this current room setup, my desk is actually right over top of the HVAC vent, which also causes it to push some of that cold air directly toward my case. It isn't uncommon for me to be at say... 28C, and by the time the AC shuts off, I will be at around 23-25C.

That made me wonder... how crazy would it be to put parts from an AC system into a PC? Now, to be clear, I don't mean anything like what I have right now where I happen to get chilled air blown onto my PC, but rather, using a compressor + condenser with a PC as a coolant instead of water. I think the only negative aspect would be dealing with the coolant and the noise from the compressor.

A good drill is essential in a modder's toolkit.

Alright, alright! I picked one up. :p

I think I am going to build my own case next. I can easily guy my 800D if I need 3.5" and 5.25" mounting gear. Just want to find a good MB tray. Gotta design it to take a MO-RA though. >_>

I've been tempted to build a case before. I actually had this interesting idea to essentially build a full-blown water cooling case. My thought was that cases are just a ton of wasted metal, so why not build the radiators into the case? That's really not much different than what my Streacom case does. However, that isn't really good enough as a custom job for me. I think it would be interesting if the entire frame of the case was built out of metal tubing that essentially served as a medium to pass the water to the built-in radiators. The only thing I think that would be necessary would be to build a system to make it so you can close off parts of tubing that aren't necessary. I don't know... this is just something that popped into this crazy thing I call a brain. :p

I know what you mean about motherboard trays! Selling a bunch of old junk is helping me make this water cooling stuff not painful on my wallet, and one of the things I'm considering getting rid of are old cases. I have an old Cooler Master ATCS 840 case that has a motherboard tray, and I really want to get rid of the case as it's taking up room, but motherboard trays are so nice for doing any quick tests!

I tried looking around to see if it was possible to just buy a motherboard tray somewhere so I could get rid of the case, but still have a motherboard tray. I didn't really find anything good (i.e. not expensive), but this link had some decent trays: http://www.mountainmods.com/motherboard-parts-c-21_34_66.html
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
I did have more fluctuation than I expected, but I'm not sure if it was out of character or not. The main thing that made me wonder if something was off was that I wasn't expecting much of a delta at all. The reason being was that I was under the impression that the water temperature should pretty much equalize with only slight variances after leaving a block. Also, the water coming into the reservoir has just gone through the 3x120 radiator, so it should be at its coolest point.

I think part of what's helping me is moving my PC to the floor. In this current room setup, my desk is actually right over top of the HVAC vent, which also causes it to push some of that cold air directly toward my case. It isn't uncommon for me to be at say... 28C, and by the time the AC shuts off, I will be at around 23-25C.

That made me wonder... how crazy would it be to put parts from an AC system into a PC? Now, to be clear, I don't mean anything like what I have right now where I happen to get chilled air blown onto my PC, but rather, using a compressor + condenser with a PC as a coolant instead of water. I think the only negative aspect would be dealing with the coolant and the noise from the compressor.



Alright, alright! I picked one up. :p



I've been tempted to build a case before. I actually had this interesting idea to essentially build a full-blown water cooling case. My thought was that cases are just a ton of wasted metal, so why not build the radiators into the case? That's really not much different than what my Streacom case does. However, that isn't really good enough as a custom job for me. I think it would be interesting if the entire frame of the case was built out of metal tubing that essentially served as a medium to pass the water to the built-in radiators. The only thing I think that would be necessary would be to build a system to make it so you can close off parts of tubing that aren't necessary. I don't know... this is just something that popped into this crazy thing I call a brain. :p

I know what you mean about motherboard trays! Selling a bunch of old junk is helping me make this water cooling stuff not painful on my wallet, and one of the things I'm considering getting rid of are old cases. I have an old Cooler Master ATCS 840 case that has a motherboard tray, and I really want to get rid of the case as it's taking up room, but motherboard trays are so nice for doing any quick tests!

I tried looking around to see if it was possible to just buy a motherboard tray somewhere so I could get rid of the case, but still have a motherboard tray. I didn't really find anything good (i.e. not expensive), but this link had some decent trays: http://www.mountainmods.com/motherboard-parts-c-21_34_66.html

Man you really don't like money o.o

Stick with your extreme water for your stock components >.<
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Man you really don't like money o.o

Stick with your extreme water for your stock components >.<

Yeesh... I'm not actually planning on doing it! I was just thinking about how it would work! I'm more of the "thinker" type of person, as I may think of crazy and/or interesting ideas, but it doesn't mean that I'll actually do it -- kind of like that crazy case idea. :p

...and I just haven't gotten around to overclocking yet. Cut me some slack! :p
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,723
1
0
That made me wonder... how crazy would it be to put parts from an AC system into a PC? Now, to be clear, I don't mean anything like what I have right now where I happen to get chilled air blown onto my PC, but rather, using a compressor + condenser with a PC as a coolant instead of water. I think the only negative aspect would be dealing with the coolant and the noise from the compressor.
You don't have to put AC parts into a PC. Its called phase change cooling and there are kits available that allows you to do that. The only limitation why it isn't as widespread as watercooling is because it consumes more power and condensation forming into ice around the CPU socket. Without proper insulation, its a recipe for disaster. Even with proper insulation, some ice will creep in and not feasible to be used in the long run.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,222
136
I tried looking around to see if it was possible to just buy a motherboard tray somewhere so I could get rid of the case, but still have a motherboard tray. I didn't really find anything good (i.e. not expensive), but this link had some decent trays: http://www.mountainmods.com/motherboard-parts-c-21_34_66.html



Need just a motherboard tray?

Both FrozenCPU and Performance PC's have some:

Lain Li trays at Performance PC's: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=130_210_750_753



Same at FrozenCPU: http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g43..._Li_Parts-Lian_Li_Motherboard_Tray-Page1.html



Oh, and as for when your pump increased pumping speed and your idle temps went up.....the pump was shedding more heat, which was transferred right into your coolant, hence the little higher heat---probably. I do know running a DDC2 at full speed gave an 18W heat dump into the coolant.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I've pretty much done everything that I can do with the 900D without taking my current computer apart to transfer the stuff. I drilled the holes for the tank last weekend.

My original plan was to put a T-line in between the two radiators on the bottom, but I'm not sure if that's going to work out well. The first problem that I ran into was that I had to mount the T-line to one of the radiators, because it would never fit with it being mounted via tubes. That means I needed to use a M-M coupler to hook it up, but the problem there is that if I tighten everything to the amount that makes me feel certain that it won't leak, the opening for the drain is at a 45-degree angle rather than being parallel with the floor. I'm not sure if there's a better way to handle it.

I'm also debating whether or not I want to go through the hassle of delidding my CPU. I'll have to check, but I think the Koolance CPU-380I block that I have doesn't actually rest on the nuts that hold the screw-posts in place, which means the water block should be able to touch the die directly (without any further modification) if I remove the IHS.

Need just a motherboard tray?

Both FrozenCPU and Performance PC's have some:

Oh, that's pretty sweet. I've ordered from both of them before, but I never thought to check them for trays. :$

Oh, and as for when your pump increased pumping speed and your idle temps went up.....the pump was shedding more heat, which was transferred right into your coolant, hence the little higher heat---probably. I do know running a DDC2 at full speed gave an 18W heat dump into the coolant.

That's a good point. I didn't even think of the pump's heat dissipation. To be honest, the temps certainly aren't bad overall. I was doing a little gaming last night, and even with an ambient temperature of 28C, my GPU only hovered around 39-41C. Although, I don't know if something is up with my CPU's temperature reporting. SpeedFan pretty much always reports my 4770k as being 26C... even while gaming. I've seen it dip to 25C for a second, but that's about it. That seems almost too good to be true!
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I've pretty much done everything that I can do with the 900D without taking my current computer apart to transfer the stuff. I drilled the holes for the tank last weekend.

My original plan was to put a T-line in between the two radiators on the bottom, but I'm not sure if that's going to work out well. The first problem that I ran into was that I had to mount the T-line to one of the radiators, because it would never fit with it being mounted via tubes. That means I needed to use a M-M coupler to hook it up, but the problem there is that if I tighten everything to the amount that makes me feel certain that it won't leak, the opening for the drain is at a 45-degree angle rather than being parallel with the floor. I'm not sure if there's a better way to handle it.

I'm also debating whether or not I want to go through the hassle of delidding my CPU. I'll have to check, but I think the Koolance CPU-380I block that I have doesn't actually rest on the nuts that hold the screw-posts in place, which means the water block should be able to touch the die directly (without any further modification) if I remove the IHS.



Oh, that's pretty sweet. I've ordered from both of them before, but I never thought to check them for trays. :$



That's a good point. I didn't even think of the pump's heat dissipation. To be honest, the temps certainly aren't bad overall. I was doing a little gaming last night, and even with an ambient temperature of 28C, my GPU only hovered around 39-41C. Although, I don't know if something is up with my CPU's temperature reporting. SpeedFan pretty much always reports my 4770k as being 26C... even while gaming. I've seen it dip to 25C for a second, but that's about it. That seems almost too good to be true!

In the Alabama "winters", I would normally idle around 18C, which was ambient. My loads never went great than 10C.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Ugh... why is it that I just can't find parts that don't suck? This is the top that I have, and I just don't see how in the world the wires will even work with this. Nothing in the instructions even mentions how in the world the wires are supposed to route behind that mounting bracket, and from what I can tell, they won't. They simply push back on it.

The only thing that I can think of to do is either cut into the mounting bracket to give it a bit of room for the wires (may not really help) or only screw it in the holes that are furthest from the wires.

Ugh. :\

EDIT:

I was able to get it to work by tearing back some heat shrinking to try to give the wires a bit less girth. It fits, but I'm really not keen on the wires being forced to go at that 90 degree angle.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Today's been a fun day full of cursing at compression fittings and wondering how crazy it would be to just say, "screw it all!", and head back to "normal" types of cooling. :p Exaggerations aside, I've been making some good, but slow progress on the whole setup. I've got a lot of the tubing done, and none are miss threaded! Took quite a few redos for that. :p Although, my 900d is already malfunctioning on me. :( The front fold-down cover won't close unless I push up on it. I tried looking to see what was causing that issue, but I haven't found it yet.

Anyway, here's a look at 'er so far!
http://i.imgur.com/2OITaYG.jpg
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
So, everything seems to be working fine, but unlike my last build, I am having a rather hellish time trying to bleed the system. With the 800D + bay reservoir, just tipping the case back a few times pretty much cleared up the trapped air; however, with the 900D, I'm afraid that I've practically given it Shaken Case Syndrome! :p I've literally done everything that I've seen recommended apart from turning the case upside down, and it still sounds like there's trapped air.

Any advice on things that I may not have tried or do I just need to keep going at it?
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,723
1
0
This expensive, single purpose machinery should get rid all of the bubbles as well as anything left in the Corsair 900D. :biggrin: I think its fine to let it run for a bit(if the pump doesn't grind too loudly) as the bubbles slowly disappears.
 

Smiki007

Member
Nov 24, 2011
43
0
66
So, everything seems to be working fine, but unlike my last build, I am having a rather hellish time trying to bleed the system. With the 800D + bay reservoir, just tipping the case back a few times pretty much cleared up the trapped air; however, with the 900D, I'm afraid that I've practically given it Shaken Case Syndrome! :p I've literally done everything that I've seen recommended apart from turning the case upside down, and it still sounds like there's trapped air.

Any advice on things that I may not have tried or do I just need to keep going at it?

That's weird, I did not have to shake my 900d case at all, just leave the reservoir cap open and leave the WCS turned on for all night. In the morning with a little taping (small taps with screwdriver rubber handle), on the tubes and radiators remove remaining air bubbles and that was all. My WCS is now silent as an grave. :D
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
So, everything seems to be working fine, but unlike my last build, I am having a rather hellish time trying to bleed the system. With the 800D + bay reservoir, just tipping the case back a few times pretty much cleared up the trapped air; however, with the 900D, I'm afraid that I've practically given it Shaken Case Syndrome! :p I've literally done everything that I've seen recommended apart from turning the case upside down, and it still sounds like there's trapped air.

Any advice on things that I may not have tried or do I just need to keep going at it?

Are you flashing your pump? That is what I generally do. It takes awhile, but gets the job done.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
This expensive, single purpose machinery should get rid all of the bubbles as well as anything left in the Corsair 900D.

:eek: I think something like that should be a last resort! :p

I think its fine to let it run for a bit(if the pump doesn't grind too loudly) as the bubbles slowly disappears.

I let it run last night with the fill port open (to give the air somewhere to go), and it doesn't seem to have changed from last night. At one point, I ran each pump by itself (just unplugged the other one), and the noise persisted. So, I doubt it's a mechanical issue with the pumps; I didn't expect it to be, but I wanted to be sure. :)

Although, it just came to me that there is one thing that I cannot do that I've read about. I recall reading that people recommend to alternate the pump's power to help push air through. My pumps are PWM-based, and they are currently not attached to the PWM header, which means they only operate at 30% power. I was going to attach them, but I couldn't find my PWM splitter at first (my computer room was a terrible mess). So, I'll get that attached, and use ASRock's tuning software to adjust the fan speed while in Windows.

That's weird, I did not have to shake my 900d case at all, just leave the reservoir cap open and leave the WCS turned on for all night. In the morning with a little taping (small taps with screwdriver rubber handle), on the tubes and radiators remove remaining air bubbles and that was all. My WCS is now silent as an grave.

Hmm I saw people recommend tapping the tubes like that, so I just flicked them with my finger instead. I'm not sure if that provides as much jostling force as I'd want, but it certainly didn't do anything. :p

How did your setup end up going? I definitely found mounting the pump to be the greatest challenge as there just wasn't anywhere that seemed perfect for a pump. I'm not terribly happy with it being down at the bottom, but it at least gets a bit of air flow. I do like the extra room in the back as it's much easier to route cables... especially since I went with Corsair's individually sleeved cables. I still need to do some extra work to get everything tied down properly though. The front-bottom radiator's fan cables are probably going to be the hardest part as they connect to a thin 4-way splitter that goes up the front along the drive cages. Although, thinking about it now, I might just take the longer route and go along the back with the front-rear radiator's cables.

EDIT:

Are you flashing your pump? That is what I generally do. It takes awhile, but gets the job done.

You mean cycling power to it? I did that for a bit where I'd turn the PSU on (jumped the ATX pins), let the pump suck in the water from the reservoir, and once it got to a point where the water level stayed the same in the reservoir, I cut power.

That's one interesting thing that I've noticed. Every place I read says that I should notice a water level change, but I've never seen one.
 
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Smiki007

Member
Nov 24, 2011
43
0
66
Hmm I saw people recommend tapping the tubes like that, so I just flicked them with my finger instead. I'm not sure if that provides as much jostling force as I'd want, but it certainly didn't do anything. :p

How did your setup end up going? I definitely found mounting the pump to be the greatest challenge as there just wasn't anywhere that seemed perfect for a pump. I'm not terribly happy with it being down at the bottom, but it at least gets a bit of air flow. I do like the extra room in the back as it's much easier to route cables... especially since I went with Corsair's individually sleeved cables. I still need to do some extra work to get everything tied down properly though. The front-bottom radiator's fan cables are probably going to be the hardest part as they connect to a thin 4-way splitter that goes up the front along the drive cages. Although, thinking about it now, I might just take the longer route and go along the back with the front-rear radiator's cables.

This is my setup:
FiClNo.png
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
This is my setup:

Ahh, okay. It looks like our setups aren't too terribly different as we both have 3 radiators. The big difference is that I have two radiators on the bottom instead of one on the drive cage. I also have my reservoir mounted to the motherboard area (there's a photo of it in this thread). I think the radiators on the bottom isn't helping my pump situation as I had very little room to mount the pump. It fits fine, but it's really close to the 240mm radiator and the PSU. I'll try and get some photos of the setup tonight. I still have to organize some of the wires (especially the fan splitter cables), so it's not perfect just yet.

Have you noticed any difficulty with your bottom flaps? I still haven't found out why the front one (window-side) won't close properly.
 

Smiki007

Member
Nov 24, 2011
43
0
66
Ahh, okay. It looks like our setups aren't too terribly different as we both have 3 radiators. The big difference is that I have two radiators on the bottom instead of one on the drive cage. I also have my reservoir mounted to the motherboard area (there's a photo of it in this thread). I think the radiators on the bottom isn't helping my pump situation as I had very little room to mount the pump. It fits fine, but it's really close to the 240mm radiator and the PSU. I'll try and get some photos of the setup tonight. I still have to organize some of the wires (especially the fan splitter cables), so it's not perfect just yet.

Have you noticed any difficulty with your bottom flaps? I still haven't found out why the front one (window-side) won't close properly.

No, the flaps are closing/opening without a problem. Must be some factory floss (it can happen).
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
No, the flaps are closing/opening without a problem. Must be some factory floss (it can happen).

Hm, that's possible, but it worked for awhile. Well, until I happened to drop a rubber washer down through the top of the case. I was wondering if the washer might be gumming up the system, but I can't even find said washer.

I also have a problem with my rear side panel as it just doesn't like to come off. The front one is fine; I just push the button and it practically falls over. The rear one doesn't budge when you push the button; you have to pry it out while it makes this cringe-worthy, scraping sound. Some people reported a certain tab causing that problem for them, but mine appears to be fine. I need to look into that more too.

Oh, and the pins on a few of my drive trays? They're rusted! :eek: Either Amazon or Corsair needs to work on their quality control!
 

Smiki007

Member
Nov 24, 2011
43
0
66
Probably the QC from Corsair, how they were way behind the schedule i think they wanted to comply with delivering so fast that forget the QC :D. I was lucky, mine 900d came with the pin in the front door (below the power button), broken, but hopefully the pin was inside the carton box and I've managed to glue it with Locktite Instant Glue. :) That was my only problem.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Hmm I've been messing with it tonight, and I'm still at a loss. Nothing seems to help at all. I've adjusted pump speeds in an attempt to dislodge any trapped air, and it's still loud as all hell. Also, even at 100% speed with both pumps, I only get 1.1 GPM... isn't that really low?

One thing came to mind though. My flow meter is positioned on the line that goes right to my pump top. Is it possible that the impeller in the flow meter is causing turbulence that's affecting the pump's impeller? In this photo you can see the reservoir in the center with the flow meter attached directly to it, and then a line from the flow meter going to the pump top's inlet.
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,723
1
0
I only get 1.1 GPM... isn't that really low?
I think its decent. Manufacturer's specifications might seem better as they're probably tested in a zero resistance loop while the speed of water flow in your loop is impeded by the amount of restrictions imposed by the radiators and blocks that you have. Also, I'm certain that the pressure would be at its highest at the pump outlet, not inlet especially with having the water passing through a reservoir(causing a pressure drop) instead of it being inline with normal tubing.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
After running the pump for days, something odd happened. I gave up messing with it late last night, and after only a few hours of sleep, I went in to check on it. I was almost a little scared to not really hear any noise. "Oh no! Is my PC still on!?" My pumps were set at a pretty low setting (40% speed in ASRock's A-Tuner's FAN-Tastic Tuning) as that helped with the gargling noise. I was rather surprised to see that the noise had mostly subsided. I turned the pump speed up to 50%, and it did get a bit noisier, but it's still far quieter than before. Hopefully, it will start clearing up soon as that noise was starting to drive me crazy; it's only slightly better than fan grinding, and that says a lot. :p

I think its decent. Manufacturer's specifications might seem better as they're probably tested in a zero resistance loop while the speed of water flow in your loop is impeded by the amount of restrictions imposed by the radiators and blocks that you have. Also, I'm certain that the pressure would be at its highest at the pump outlet, not inlet especially with having the water passing through a reservoir(causing a pressure drop) instead of it being inline with normal tubing.

Hmm those are all good points. I probably should've considered the placement factor since I put it prior to the pump to ensure I wasn't getting an artificially inflated reading. Although, it sounds like I was maybe a little too ambitious? Do you think it would be wise to move it? A good inline spot that's far from the pump could be in the line that goes from the 360mm radiator to the reservoir. It also happens to run behind the motherboard for easy access! :awe: (It's actually there to avoid running in front of the 360mm radiator's fans.)

I did try running a game last night to check the cooling performance. I just loaded up a character in Borderlands 2, and my GPUs were hanging around 34-36C with an ambient of... I think 26-28C? A delta between 6-10C with about 70-80% load on each GPU sounds pretty good to me. I was having some SLI issues (black horizontal lines... mostly when looking through a scope), so I'll have to look into that.

Also, I think I might need to update SpeedFan as its temperature report for my CPU appears to be wrong, which isn't a surprise since it's a newer chipset. A-Tuner was reporting about a 33C temperature for the CPU where SpeedFan kept it locked at about 26C.