Supreme Court signals support for Arizona immigration law provision

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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,022
2,590
136
Break a law and can not prove who you are.

Spend the night in the pokey.

Do not break the law - no one is asking for ID

What is the issue here? :confused:

The asking for ID will not need someone to break the law. Cops can stop anyone for any reason. They can stop you for "appearing to be drunk" or "appearing to loiter" and then follow through with whatever investigation they want. You weren't breaking the law, but they cite those things as excuses to harass and search an individual to see what they can drum up based on the color of that person's skin. Currently, its common practice for cops to make up a reason to stop black males in vehicles, to search it, and see if the individual has a warrant. As a citizen, there is very little recourse to this sort of practice.

This law essentially extends that practice to illegal immigrants and individuals who resemble them. When you understand that cops are under pressure to make arrests and write tickets, even if those arrests are faulty and the tickets are without claim, certainly you see how this law gives them new powers to abuse. They essentially can stop and arrest anyone who looks like an illegal immigrant (because its very very easy to make up reasons to stop an individual even if there is absolutely no credibility behind them), until they provide proof they are not. You can argue about the semantics of the law, about how cops will be fine upstanding citizens who want to get to the truth and will try to protect american citizens from harm, but that is far from the truth. Cops obviously don't treat all citizens as equal (again look at the harrassment black males face despite being citizens). The bottom line of the law is this: look like an illegal immigrant, don't carry ID, you'll get arrested until everything is sorted out (even if you are fine upstanding citizen with the same rights as white Americans).

*http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02-23/news/31093008_1_cop-claims-quotas-42nd-precinct
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
You link to an article written by a Hispanic...many Hispanics seem to think that all "anti-illegal immigration policies" are racist.

I'm a Democrat and therefore, I'm painted with the "liberal brush" whether it's accurate or not...and I'm VERY anti-illegal immigration. I'd like to see ALL the illegals rounded up and shipped back to whatever country they're from...be it Mexico, Guatemala, China, Ireland...where ever. If they've been here for years and have established a "life" here, then allow them to apply for legal entry...but they don't get to "skip places in the line" of others who are applying to enter. If they've been previously deported, make them wait 5 or 10 years before they're allowed to apply for re-entry.

So when liberals say that Republicans are anti-immigrant you would agree they are speaking BS?
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Then, maybe you should answer the same question. Why liberals say Republicans are anti-immigrant are they speaking BS?

You are not going to get a solid response from him. The conversation on illegal immigration always boils down to liberals redefining illegal immigrants as "undocumented immigrants" followed up by them calling Republicans or anyone else who supports enforcement of our immigration laws as being racist xenophobes along with being anti-immigration as you stated.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
The asking for ID will not need someone to break the law. Cops can stop anyone for any reason. They can stop you for "appearing to be drunk" or "appearing to loiter" and then follow through with whatever investigation they want. You weren't breaking the law, but they cite those things as excuses to harass and search an individual to see what they can drum up based on the color of that person's skin. Currently, its common practice for cops to make up a reason to stop black males in vehicles, to search it, and see if the individual has a warrant. As a citizen, there is very little recourse to this sort of practice.

This law essentially extends that practice to illegal immigrants and individuals who resemble them. When you understand that cops are under pressure to make arrests and write tickets, even if those arrests are faulty and the tickets are without claim, certainly you see how this law gives them new powers to abuse. They essentially can stop and arrest anyone who looks like an illegal immigrant (because its very very easy to make up reasons to stop an individual even if there is absolutely no credibility behind them), until they provide proof they are not. You can argue about the semantics of the law, about how cops will be fine upstanding citizens who want to get to the truth and will try to protect american citizens from harm, but that is far from the truth. Cops obviously don't treat all citizens as equal (again look at the harrassment black males face despite being citizens). The bottom line of the law is this: look like an illegal immigrant, don't carry ID, you'll get arrested until everything is sorted out (even if you are fine upstanding citizen with the same rights as white Americans).

*http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02-23/news/31093008_1_cop-claims-quotas-42nd-precinct

And LEO will get nailed if such a pattern is shown to exist.

Do not attract their attention and you can fly under the radar.


AZ took almost every objection and developed guidelines and rules to prevent abuse.

It is those that want to protect the illegals that are complaining the loudest; Legals do not like the illegals here. Legals had to stand in line - no one likes a line cutter.

No one has proven that AZ is doing racial profiling. they have tried and failed. - it is an assumption that is being made by people who are against cracking down on immigration.

the average LEO does not have the manpower to randomly tag every one; they target those that provide a reason.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,622
10,936
136
So when liberals say that Republicans are anti-immigrant you would agree they are speaking BS?

BOTH sides are prone to speak bullshit. It's not just a "liberal" thing. It's political rhetoric. If the Conservatives were so against illegal immigration, why didn't they do something about it during the Bush years? You know...the 6 years when they had the Presidency and majorities in both House and Senate?

Instead of actually doing something about the problem, they raise a fuss...stir up the rabble faithful...and do absolutely nothing.
Remember, big business depends on illegal immigrants to (a) provide a cheap, dependable source of labor for ag related and non-union construction jobs, and (b) hold down labor rates for those relatively unskilled jobs that the illegals are prone to do.
Their effect on lower labor rates doesn't usually impact "professional jobs," but it sure does impact the kinds of jobs that many Americans can do.
Fast food jobs used to be the bailiwick of high school kids and college kids. Nowadays, (at least around here) MOST fast food jobs are held by immigrants (legal or illegal) who can barely speak English.
Yes, I'm sure PART of that is caused by our youth who seem to think that minimum wage fast food jobs are beneath them...but it's also because so many immigrants (legal or illegal) are willing to work those jobs without bitching much about working conditions or low pay.

As for "libruls," The dreaded O'Bummer has deported more illegal immigrants than Bush ever did...and don't forget, it was the "Great White Conservative God," Ronnie Rayguns who signed the amnesty program, legitimizing millions of illegal immigrants.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Then, maybe you should answer the same question. Why liberals say Republicans are anti-immigrant are they speaking BS?

Clarify.

My impression is more Republicans are 'pro legal immigrant' to a point - even if they want to limit numbers more than others, demand they speak English, put up with profiling with things like the AZ law, and so on, they'll generally say within those limits they're 'in favor of legal immigration', if the people won't be in need of services.

And my impression is most have inaccurate ideas about and hate for illegal immigrants.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
BOTH sides are prone to speak bullshit. It's not just a "liberal" thing. It's political rhetoric. If the Conservatives were so against illegal immigration, why didn't they do something about it during the Bush years? You know...the 6 years when they had the Presidency and majorities in both House and Senate?

Instead of actually doing something about the problem, they raise a fuss...stir up the rabble faithful...and do absolutely nothing.
Remember, big business depends on illegal immigrants to (a) provide a cheap, dependable source of labor for ag related and non-union construction jobs, and (b) hold down labor rates for those relatively unskilled jobs that the illegals are prone to do.
Their effect on lower labor rates doesn't usually impact "professional jobs," but it sure does impact the kinds of jobs that many Americans can do.
Fast food jobs used to be the bailiwick of high school kids and college kids. Nowadays, (at least around here) MOST fast food jobs are held by immigrants (legal or illegal) who can barely speak English.
Yes, I'm sure PART of that is caused by our youth who seem to think that minimum wage fast food jobs are beneath them...but it's also because so many immigrants (legal or illegal) are willing to work those jobs without bitching much about working conditions or low pay.

As for "libruls," The dreaded O'Bummer has deported more illegal immigrants than Bush ever did...and don't forget, it was the "Great White Conservative God," Ronnie Rayguns who signed the amnesty program, legitimizing millions of illegal immigrants.

So you are saying that Republicans are also liberals. That certainly explains the massive increase in spending under Bush.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,622
10,936
136
So you are saying that Republicans are also liberals. That certainly explains the massive increase in spending under Bush.

The big difference seems to be that the Democrats are "tax and spend liberals," while the Republicans are "borrow and spend liberals."

There's also a difference in what the parties want to spend our money on and who benefits most from said spending.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Republicans on the ussc sure have a twisted way of twisting things to make some twisted point that is not a legitimate point in the first place.

So I ask.... Would every person stopped by police be forced to prove legal citizenship?
I mean, an illegal French man would not look Hispanic... now would he?
Would he be scrutinized by police?

And how far could this go?
Americans of late seem to be damn friendly to the idea of giving up rights for short term gain.

Today the issue Hispanic-looking drivers. Tomorrow, drug checks?

U all know illegal drugs are a huge American society problem as well.
Sooooo kiddies, how will you react when the cops pull you over, you that average American citizen, and insist on strip searching you, mommie, as well as your 3 year old for possible hidden drugs?
Why would they do that?.... Because the ussc said they can.
Also... for the good of the country i.e. the war on drugs.

Yes... Be careful what u wish for, especially when rights are sacrificed in exchange for short term gain.
Many Americans have died in wars for our freedoms. Think twice before tossing all that sacrifice out the window. There are sane ways of dealing with the issue of illegals.
Only retarded lawmakers like Jan of AZ would expose their stupidity by creating such laws, supporting such laws, unable to think through the full consequences.

So sad.... we seem to have a lot of AZ Jan's out there.
But I don't blame her. How can you put blame on that retarded office holder?
I blame the voting public that has lost their ability to reason, and think logically before pulling that lever.
That's a whole lot of drama.

You've completely lost rational thought of any kind in respect to this issue. Has anyone in this thread pointed out for the umpteenth time that AZ law mimics federal law? That it was brought about because of the failure of the feds to enforce the law?

People like yourself, who have contempt for the law and enormous contempt for those that enforce it, would prefer that no one get pulled over, no one get arrested and no one jailed. In the world that you desire, everyone treats everyone with total respect, everyone gets along and those that break the rules deserve a pass - as many times as it takes. If you quit doling out discipline, the bad behavior doesn't stop, it intensifies. 12 million illegals are proof of that. You don't have to be the brightest to figure that out.

Unicorns and rainbows are for children's books. It's way past time to grow up.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Medicare prescription drugs would be a social program.

No child left behind would be a social program.

what funds were spent on the NCLB.

The amount of the Medicare prescription drugs is negligible compared to the rest of the system. The biggest problem there and has been with all administrations is that they will not force "competition" for the drugs; just write a blank check.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
That's a whole lot of drama.

You've completely lost rational thought of any kind in respect to this issue. Has anyone in this thread pointed out for the umpteenth time that AZ law mimics federal law? That it was brought about because of the failure of the feds to enforce the law?

People like yourself, who have contempt for the law and enormous contempt for those that enforce it, would prefer that no one get pulled over, no one get arrested and no one jailed. In the world that you desire, everyone treats everyone with total respect, everyone gets along and those that break the rules deserve a pass - as many times as it takes. If you quit doling out discipline, the bad behavior doesn't stop, it intensifies. 12 million illegals are proof of that. You don't have to be the brightest to figure that out.

Unicorns and rainbows are for children's books. It's way past time to grow up.

It is not that it mimics Federal law.

It is that is has some teeth and will be enforced.

Easier for people to put their heads under the Federal blanket to pretend that something is being done.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
what funds were spent on the NCLB.

The amount of the Medicare prescription drugs is negligible compared to the rest of the system. The biggest problem there and has been with all administrations is that they will not force "competition" for the drugs; just write a blank check.

Medicare part D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Part_D#Program_costs

"Projected net expenditures from 2009 through 2018 are estimated to be $727.3 billion"

700+ billion is not chump change, in fact Obamacare 10 year numbers were estimated in the 900s(important to keep it below a trillion) I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_child_left_behind#Funding

"As part of their support for NCLB, the administration and Congress backed massive increases in funding for elementary and secondary education funding. Title I funding to districts for disadvantaged children increased from $42.2 billion to $55.7 billion from 2001, the fiscal year before the law's passage, to fiscal year 2004"
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
The bottom line is that they come here because it is profitable to do so. Remove the profit motive and they will stop coming, it really is that simple.

Of course it is. So, how do we remove the 'profit motives' that the dimlibs keep creating, like in-state tuition for illegals, a path to citizenship for illegals, dream act, welfare and social services for illegals, free healthcare for illegals and so forth?
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
14
81
Medicare part D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Part_D#Program_costs

"Projected net expenditures from 2009 through 2018 are estimated to be $727.3 billion"

700+ billion is not chump change, in fact Obamacare 10 year numbers were estimated in the 900s(important to keep it below a trillion) I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_child_left_behind#Funding

"As part of their support for NCLB, the administration and Congress backed massive increases in funding for elementary and secondary education funding. Title I funding to districts for disadvantaged children increased from $42.2 billion to $55.7 billion from 2001, the fiscal year before the law's passage, to fiscal year 2004"

Do you really think Liberals would have "cooked" up the idea of Medicare Part D? This was a sloppy wet kiss with tongue to Big Pharma.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Try 2 unfunded Wars and Medicare Part D.

Comments are being now taken ouit of context.

Original was the implication that Bush was spending as a liberal.
I was questioning what liberal type programs were cranked up.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Do you really think Liberals would have "cooked" up the idea of Medicare Part D? This was a sloppy wet kiss with tongue to Big Pharma.

You mean like how liberals Obamacare (cooked up when liberals controlled the Presidency, House, and had a fillibuster proof majority in the Senate) was a sloppy wet kiss to Health Inusrance Companies?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,414
8,356
126
Really? I haven't actually looked up the law but I was told by a cop that in the state of Louisiana it is illegal to be over 18 and in public without valid ID of some sort. Maybe he was bullshitting me, I don't leave the house without my wallet so its not something that would effect me but if a cop stops me and asks for my ID can I really tell him no without any sort of repercussions?

it's amazing how many cops will make shit up to get people to do what the cop wants.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
it's amazing how many cops will make shit up to get people to do what the cop wants.

True, there are lots of abuses of power and bogus parking tickets to meet a quota . . . until checks are put on the system it will continue