- Jun 5, 2000
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First, show me your papers.
funny, that exactly what the cop asked me when i got a speeding ticket last year. show me your license, insurance and reg. in other words show me your papers!!!
First, show me your papers.
Life isn't fair. All states have major issues to deal with. It doesn't mean they can break the law and assume new powers to do so.
So first of all I'm going to state my position against this law. It essentially lets you racial profile freely without any sort of reprimand.
We've had a multitude of threads about this. The people against it are not against overstepping of federal rules (these same folks have no problem saying that CA rules on pot should override federal rules), they simply want to allow more illegal immigration and are against anything that curbs it.officers may not solely consider race, color, or national origin:
funny, that exactly what the cop asked me when i got a speeding ticket last year. show me your license, insurance and reg. in other words show me your papers!!!
Oh, sorry sir. Your registration was expired. We'll have to throw you in jail until this is sorted out.
You are absolutely right. I'm just stating my position on how I see the legal side of things.Whether they are breaking the law and assuming new powers is the issue which the SCOTUS will determine.
Proof?Legal immigrants have to have valid current documentation on them at all times already -- by federal law.
Sure thing, go ahead and ignore the fact that the law specifically prohibits racial or ethnic profiling. We've had a multitude of threads about this. The people against it are not against overstepping of federal rules (these same folks have no problem saying that CA rules on pot should override federal rules), they simply want to allow more illegal immigration and are against anything that curbs it.
Proof?
And again, its the legal citizens who happen to be dark skinned that I am fearful of. A guy is arrested because he looks like an illegal alien, he claims he is a citizen but doesn't have papers (because legal citizens certainly do not have to carry any sort of ID all the time), so he is arrested. He sits in jail overnight, maybe 2 days before his family finds him and delivers such papers. And then he is released, and ALWAYS carries papers because of fear. Again, I'm talking about a legal citizen here.
Do you have any evidence of this happening with either the Arizona or Alabama law?
You are absolutely right. I'm just stating my position on how I see the legal side of things.
Law aside, legal or not, on the ethical side of things, this law is appaling for the reasons I stated above. Even if Arizona has the right to ask people to always carry papers or be arrested on the spot, doesn't mean they should be doing so. Certainly there are other ways to reduce the prevalence of illegal immigrants in arizona other than racial profiling, scare mongering, and the creation of a police state for legal and illegal immigrants alike?
Proof?
And again, its the legal citizens who happen to be dark skinned that I am fearful of. A guy is arrested because he looks like an illegal alien, he claims he is a citizen but doesn't have papers (because legal citizens certainly do not have to carry any sort of ID all the time), so he is arrested. He sits in jail overnight, maybe 2 days before his family finds him and delivers such papers. And then he is released, and ALWAYS carries papers because of fear. Again, I'm talking about a legal citizen here.
Proof?
And again, its the legal citizens who happen to be dark skinned that I am fearful of. A guy is arrested because he looks like an illegal alien, he claims he is a citizen but doesn't have papers (because legal citizens certainly do not have to carry any sort of ID all the time), so he is arrested. He sits in jail overnight, maybe 2 days before his family finds him and delivers such papers. And then he is released, and ALWAYS carries papers because of fear. Again, I'm talking about a legal citizen here.
Proof?
If you are a permanent resident age 18 or older, you are required to have a valid green card in your possession at all times.
A guy is arrested because he looks like an illegal alien
Proof?
And again, its the legal citizens who happen to be dark skinned that I am fearful of. A guy is arrested because he looks like an illegal alien, he claims he is a citizen but doesn't have papers (because legal citizens certainly do not have to carry any sort of ID all the time), so he is arrested. He sits in jail overnight, maybe 2 days before his family finds him and delivers such papers. And then he is released, and ALWAYS carries papers because of fear. Again, I'm talking about a legal citizen here.
"We are not making any allegation about racial or ethnic profiling in the case," Verrilli responded.
"All that has to do with immigration law is whether or not they can ask the federal government to find out if this person is illegal or not, and then leave it up to you. It seems to me that the federal government just doesn't want to know who is here illegally or not," he said.
hahahah You're starting to weasel out already? How many of your posts should I go dig up where you said the law would get tossed? Some sections might get tossed, but it looks like the law overall might get upheld. Expert indeed
Title 8, Chapter 12, Section 1304 of the U.S. Code
Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.
Challenge this:
Roberts pointed out that under the Arizona law, police stops are not made for immigration reasons, but for violations of other laws.
So a law-abiding citizen won't be stop, thus won't go to jail. A non law-abiding citizen will be stop and go to jail anyways, but now with two counts instead of one.
Could it happen?
So first of all I'm going to state my position against this law. It essentially lets you racial profile freely without any sort of reprimand.
The law prohibits profiling, and it does not permit anyone to be arrested simply because they "look like an illegal alien". The police have to already be in "lawful contact" with someone (ie, they've pulled you over or arrested you for a violation of the law), and only then they can check on the legal status if they reasonably believe someone to be here illegally. In other words, they can't simply ask people for papers without first having a reason to detain them.
You are absolutely right. I'm just stating my position on how I see the legal side of things.
Proof? Requirement of being issued a permit to be in the US as a foriegn national or a legal resident who is not a citizen.
And again, its the legal citizens who happen to be dark skinned that I am fearful of. A guy is arrested because he looks like an illegal alien, he claims he is a citizen but doesn't have papers (because legal citizens certainly do not have to carry any sort of ID all the time), so he is arrested. He sits in jail overnight, maybe 2 days before his family finds him and delivers such papers. And then he is released, and ALWAYS carries papers because of fear. Again, I'm talking about a legal citizen here.
Regardless of what legal arguments the Supreme Court uses to justify what is essentially a political issue, it doesn't make to restrain most of what Arizona is trying to do as a matter of policy.
This isn't like some state trying to counter federal race protections or environmental protections. It's the official policy of the US government to keep illegals out. (Even though clearly many of our politicians don't want to enforce it as a practical matter.) There's no good reason Arizona shouldn't be able to further federal policy. The main source of objections is people who basically want open borders.
That is NOT federal policy. Federal policy most certainly is to control illegal immigration, but it has a large number of other considerations which affect when, how, and to what extent it enforces this policy. The idea that it is somehow 'EVERYBODY OUT' just doesn't reflect reality.
Regardless of what legal arguments the Supreme Court uses to justify what is essentially a political issue, it doesn't make to restrain most of what Arizona is trying to do as a matter of policy.
This isn't like some state trying to counter federal race protections or environmental protections. It's the official policy of the US government to keep illegals out. (Even though clearly many of our politicians don't want to enforce it as a practical matter.) There's no good reason Arizona shouldn't be able to further federal policy. The main source of objections is people who basically want open borders.
First, show me your papers.