Supreme Court signals support for Arizona immigration law provision

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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Illegals do have some rights, and I am sure everyone will agree they should once they read on. For example, the right to life (with due process to remove it) and the right to freedom of religion are two obvious ones.

The illegal is brought before an immigration law savvy judge who listens to see if they some good reason for being here. One good reason would be they are a blind Chinese man who escaped after being imprisoned as a political prisoner. Most are deported, though.

I would disagree. Anyone in the country illegally has no rights. Any "rights" they have exist only because we must verify they are not actually in the country legally (and therefore possessing rights).

Once they are verified to be in the country illegally they have no rights. The fact that we dont shoot them on the spot simply shows how compassionate we are.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,618
10,935
136
I would disagree. Anyone in the country illegally has no rights. Any "rights" they have exist only because we must verify they are not actually in the country legally (and therefore possessing rights).

Once they are verified to be in the country illegally they have no rights. The fact that we dont shoot them on the spot simply shows how compassionate we are.

:hmm:

While I agree that the illegal immigrants SHOULDN'T be given the same rights as US citizens, or for that matter, the same rights as LEGAL immigrants, (and some of those need to be pared down) they ARE entitled to basic HUMAN rights...

That doesn't mean we can't round them up en masse and deport them immediately and they forfeit any/all property, real or personal, to help defray the deportation costs...just that we can't torture or kill them just for being in the country illegally.

LEGAL immigrants should not be eligible for any kind of state/federal aid...no welfare/food stamps/medicare if you're not a US citizen. (by medicare, I mean "welfare medical," not the Medicare one earns by working for decades and paying into the system, then becomes eligible to collect along with Social Security upon retirement)
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I would disagree. Anyone in the country illegally has no rights. Any "rights" they have exist only because we must verify they are not actually in the country legally (and therefore possessing rights).

Once they are verified to be in the country illegally they have no rights. The fact that we dont shoot them on the spot simply shows how compassionate we are.

Then your position is that rights are granted to us by the government and are not unalienable rights granted by our Creator. For if they are granted by our Creator, they have basic human rights.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
:hmm:

While I agree that the illegal immigrants SHOULDN'T be given the same rights as US citizens, or for that matter, the same rights as LEGAL immigrants, (and some of those need to be pared down) they ARE entitled to basic HUMAN rights...

That doesn't mean we can't round them up en masse and deport them immediately and they forfeit any/all property, real or personal, to help defray the deportation costs...just that we can't torture or kill them just for being in the country illegally.

LEGAL immigrants should not be eligible for any kind of state/federal aid...no welfare/food stamps/medicare if you're not a US citizen. (by medicare, I mean "welfare medical," not the Medicare one earns by working for decades and paying into the system, then becomes eligible to collect along with Social Security upon retirement)

Agreed.
 

JimKiler

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2002
3,557
205
106
Illegals do have some rights, and I am sure everyone will agree they should once they read on. For example, the right to life (with due process to remove it) and the right to freedom of religion are two obvious ones.

The illegal is brought before an immigration law savvy judge who listens to see if they some good reason for being here. One good reason would be they are a blind Chinese man who escaped after being imprisoned as a political prisoner. Most are deported, though.
Thank you.
The key here is this.

What happens to the freedoms of people who LOOK "Illegal" and are now forced to carry passports in the country they are citizens of?

This is taking their freedom away in the name of "protecting" the country from immigrants that are coming in to do the jobs WE DON'T WANT TO DO for wages that are needed in order to make the items cost as cheap as we have said we wanted them to be.

This measure is a stopgap that is a poor "solution" to a problem that we have started nationally, and one of the groups hurting from this are Mexican-Americans.
The law does not state someone has to look illegal, they have to be suspected of being an illegal. But If I have to carry a license to drive a vehicle and wear a helmet to drive a motorcycle then we can enforce current law that says workers from other countries need to carry their papers.

Further illegal immigrants buy someone else's social security number and that can cause issues to us. And we need protection when immigrants break laws. How do you stop the Mexican gangs from walking into the US? I see Phoenix, Airzona already has some of highest kidnapping rate in the US, but I suppose that will not change if we try and keep our borders secure.

But we agree that it is good to have immigration for the jobs we do not want. But it has to be done properly, and when done properly it will still be less strict and imposing on us that most other countries.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
:hmm:

While I agree that the illegal immigrants SHOULDN'T be given the same rights as US citizens, or for that matter, the same rights as LEGAL immigrants, (and some of those need to be pared down) they ARE entitled to basic HUMAN rights...

I disagree with your use of the word entitled. They are entitled to nothing. Which does not mean we should shoot them on the spot, just that we are not violating their rights if we did.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Then your position is that rights are granted to us by the government and are not unalienable rights granted by our Creator. For if they are granted by our Creator, they have basic human rights.

I am basically invoking castle doctrine for the United States as a whole.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Thank you.

The law does not state someone has to look illegal, they have to be suspected of being an illegal. But If I have to carry a license to drive a vehicle and wear a helmet to drive a motorcycle then we can enforce current law that says workers from other countries need to carry their papers.

Here's the catch.

You can "suspect" someone based on their looks. This has been used in many other cases. The way you walk, talk, look, dress. It has been used on minorities and youths for a long time.

Why?

BECAUSE IT WORKS. In many cases, unless they are skilled con men or other criminals, they do not look like the suburban grandma. Two black kids w/hoodies at 11pm on a weeknight looking around a lot are SUSPICIOUS. Because they are black? Nope, although crime demographics do not help if 95% of the people in the local projects are black, but that is another issue. But all the other "looks" are suspicious.

So if you are "looking" for a "suspicious" individual that may be an illegal immigrant in an area where 99% of those illegals are Mexican.... it does not help when you start questioning Indian families.

Further illegal immigrants buy someone else's social security number and that can cause issues to us.

We need to get the stats on this.

MOST of these people do not buy these things themselves. They do not know SS from a hole in the ground. The guy getting them work, the pit master, he is getting the numbers and making his work crew can be paid above the table. So now "John Winkleheimer" is "working" 40 hours in a lettuce patch in Kentucky and miraculously producing the same amount that required union labor 80-90 hours to do.

And we need protection when immigrants break laws. How do you stop the Mexican gangs from walking into the US?

Red herring.

They are making money on the border as it is, mostly because of our own laws. Pot is a huge (stoned) cash cow, as well as illegal gun running. It does not suit them to cross the border (much) at all. They have their established routes, both legal and not.

I see Phoenix, Airzona already has some of highest kidnapping rate in the US, but I suppose that will not change if we try and keep our borders secure.

Who is being kidnapped? What is the rate? This is too selective an example to bring out as a direct example of illegal immigration and a possible artificial inflation of something that, although serious, is still not anywhere near as bad as, say, domestic gang warefare.

But we agree that it is good to have immigration for the jobs we do not want. But it has to be done properly, and when done properly it will still be less strict and imposing on us that most other countries.

Yep. You decrease the potential and desire for this to be illegal and you reduce the profit made from assisting it.

Legalize pot and you will get a bunch more good for nothing pot heads, but you will also remove one VERY EASILY obtained substance from the cash rolls of organized crime.

Start more lenient immigrant labor policies, with more watchdogs, and you will need less people watching the border.

YOU FRIGGING FOCUS ON MEXICO INSTEAD OF IRAQ AND MAYBE WE WOULD NOT HAVE AS MANY PROBLEMS. i do not mean invade them, but i am sure they would welcome some help in "cleaning up" some "troublesome spots" along our shared border.