Student gets Suspended for taking PIC of napping Teacher!

[slag]

Umm, you go to the school canteen and pick your meal from the menu. They serve you and give you a knife and fork to eat it with.

OH, lol.. I thought you meant they brought it from home.

 

[GotIssues]

Umm, you go to the school canteen and pick your meal from the menu. They serve you and give you a knife and fork to eat it with.

In this case, the school is providing it as a necessary instrument for eating. Not a big deal. Should the students start taking them out of the lunchroom, it becomes a different matter entirely. What we are referring to was bringing in the items from home.

When I was in HS, we did archery for gym class. Using the school's bow and arrows was not a big deal. But I can guarantee you they'd flip out if you started walking into school with a bow and arrows on your back. The mere fact that the school provided the items with supervision was the key difference, and applies in this case as well.

 

[WelshBloke]

In this case, the school is providing it as a necessary instrument for eating. Not a big deal. Should the students start taking them out of the lunchroom, it becomes a different matter entirely. What we are referring to was bringing in the items from home.

When I was in HS, we did archery for gym class. Using the school's bow and arrows was not a big deal. But I can guarantee you they'd flip out if you started walking into school with a bow and arrows on your back. The mere fact that the school provided the items with supervision was the key difference, and applies in this case as well.

Your equating a butter knife with a bow and arrow? What was that you said about sensationalist posts earlier?

 

[Ninjahedge]

WB, that is getting picky.

His analogy is simple. When the school supplies them, and watches over you with them, it is different than allowing them to be brought in on their own.

As for lunches? Waa, you don't get a hot lunch. Bring a sandwich like I did for 12 years and get an occasional "hot lunch" from the cafeteria and shut your whining little gob.

 

[GotIssues]

Your equating a butter knife with a bow and arrow? What was that you said about sensationalist posts earlier?

Never did I equate a butter knife's lethality to that of a bow and arrow. I said that was the policy and the same enforcement of the policy would apply in your situation.

His analogy is simple. When the school supplies them, and watches over you with them, it is different than allowing them to be brought in on their own.

This.

 

[WelshBloke]

His analogy is simple. When the school supplies them, and watches over you with them, it is different than allowing them to be brought in on their own.

How is my kid using his own cutlery at lunch any different to using school cutlery at lunch?

Remember these are butter knives and the like not 12" bowie knives.

Although I have no problem with the school only allowing their knives if they provide them as needed.

 

[WelshBloke]

Never did I equate a butter knife's lethality to that of a bow and arrow. I said that was the policy and the same enforcement of the policy would apply in your situation.

So in a conversation about cutlery the first, nearest thing you thought of was a bow and arrow?

No sensationalist undertones there at all.

 

[GotIssues]

How is my kid using his own cutlery at lunch any different to using school cutlery at lunch?

Remember these are butter knives and the like not 12" bowie knives.

Having them outside the lunchroom is where the difference lies. If a kid knows he's not supposed to take it out of the lunchroom and he does, it shows a little more intent than just "I need it for lunch" and removes a lot of the ambiguity people are complaining about.

Although I have no problem with the school only allowing their knives if they provide them as needed.

Who would?

 

[WelshBloke]

Having them outside the lunchroom is where the difference lies. If a kid knows he's not supposed to take it out of the lunchroom and he does, it shows a little more intent than just "I need it for lunch" and removes a lot of the ambiguity people are complaining about.

At my kids school if they take a packed lunch they leave it on a trolley in the canteen when they arrive at school. They don't have it with them in the classroom.

 

[GotIssues]

So in a conversation about cutlery the first, nearest thing you thought of was a bow and arrow?

No sensationalist undertones there at all.

It was a simple analogy of something that actually happened at my school. I guess next time I should alter the details so that you don't get so stuck up in them you miss the entire point of the post.

The articles regarding the kid who made a chicken nugget in the shape of a gun wasn't a sensationalism because it actually happened. The people shouting "Hands can be used as weapons, lets take those too!" are guilty of sensationalism because they are using purposefully ludicrous and ridiculous situations that won't happen just to try and bolster a weak or non-existant stance.

 

[waggy]

Zero tolerance is zero tolerance, there is no appealing. What don't you understand about that?

yes it does. you can appeal it. Zero tolerance is a local issue saying you X then punishment will be Y. its so that there are no favoritism and no questions.

IF child gets punishment Y and they didn't do it or feel its going to far they can appeal it.

 

[GotIssues]

At my kids school if they take a packed lunch they leave it on a trolley in the canteen when they arrive at school. They don't have it with them in the classroom.

And that doesn't happen in most schools, at least none that I know of. Home lunches were accessible at pretty much any time.

 

[WelshBloke]

It was a simple analogy of something that actually happened at my school. I guess next time I should alter the details so that you don't get so stuck up in them you miss the entire point of the post.

The articles regarding the kid who made a chicken nugget in the shape of a gun wasn't a sensationalism because it actually happened. The people shouting "Hands can be used as weapons, lets take those too!" are guilty of sensationalism because they are using purposefully ludicrous and ridiculous situations that won't happen just to try and bolster a weak or non-existant stance.

As are you for saying 'I couldn't take in a bow and arrow, you can't take in a butter knife. It's totally the same! '

 

[WelshBloke]

And that doesn't happen in most schools, at least none that I know of. Home lunches were accessible at pretty much any time.

Which is a better solution, storing kids meals in a cool, safe environment or banning random items?

 

[GotIssues]

As are you for saying 'I couldn't take in a bow and arrow, you can't take in a butter knife. It's totally the same! '

What part of the enforcement of the policy isn't the same? Name the difference in the enforcement of the policy. You bring a knife to school, you get in trouble. You use the one provided, you are fine. You bring a bow and arrow to school, you get in trouble. You use the one provided at PE, you are fine.

I used a personal, real life example of what was deemed a weapon at my school to provide a simple analogy of why there is a difference between brining in your own knives and using the ones provided by the school. Accept it or not, I don't care, but it's still an analogy that exemplifies the point I was making that school provided items for use is much different than bringing them in from home.

 

[GotIssues]

Which is a better solution, storing kids meals in a cool, safe environment or banning random items?

Like... a lunchbox?

The US's level of lunchbox technology must be vastly superior if you require your sandwiches to be in the fridge for the 4 hours between when you arrive and when you have lunch.

EDIT:

Just thought of something. WB, does your kid go to a small school (150 or less)? Smaller school and/or private school dynamics are very different from a large public school (not a sensationalism). I went to a small private school until 9th grade, at which I went to a large public school. Huge difference in how things are and can be handled. It would also explain a lot of your viewpoint on the matter and why we disagree.

 

[waggy]

Like... a lunchbox?

The US's level of lunchbox technology must be vastly superior if you require your sandwiches to be in the fridge for the 4 hours between when you arrive and when you have lunch.

EDIT:

Just thought of something. WB, does your kid go to a small school (150 or less)? Smaller school and/or private school dynamics are much more different than a large public school (not a sensationalism). I went to a small private school until 9th grade, at which I went to a large public school. Huge difference in how things are and can be handled. It would also explain a lot of your viewpoint on the matter and why we disagree.

4 hours? the schools near us have lunch from 10-2. so it can be 2.5 hours to 6 hours. but t hose are large schools.

My daughters school is small. 100 students so they have lunch at one time. the kids can put the lunch in a fridge if they want and heat it up in microwaves.

but the school also makes everything fresh that day. a lot of schools have it shipped in pre-made then warm it up.

 

[GotIssues]

4 hours? the schools near us have lunch from 10-2. so it can be 2.5 hours to 6 hours. but t hose are large schools.

I was assuming an 8-3:30 school schedule for completeness.

My daughters school is small. 100 students so they have lunch at one time. the kids can put the lunch in a fridge if they want and heat it up in microwaves.

but the school also makes everything fresh that day. a lot of schools have it shipped in pre-made then warm it up.

Yeah, my grade school was somewhere around 120-140, I don't recall the exact number. In 8th grade, there were 21 of us in class, 17 of which were in my pre-school class 10 years earlier. Small private school in a small town :shrug:.

Small schools you can provide for a lot more (like fridges for lunches). Larger the school, the less likely they'll be able to provide fridges for lunches, among other things. Rule enforcements were also much, much different. It was a bit of adjustment, for sure.

 

[Ninjahedge]

How is my kid using his own cutlery at lunch any different to using school cutlery at lunch?

Remember these are butter knives and the like not 12" bowie knives.

Although I have no problem with the school only allowing their knives if they provide them as needed.

Simple.

It is easier to have a pile of plastic butter knives ready than to have to keep your eye out and inspect every knife that comes into the school at lunchtime.

We already know that the taxpayer is unwilling to pay more money for schools in general, how do you think they will respond to having to have another lunch aid just to help check everyone's cutlery?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Missed most of this convo, but my school never had any utensils beyond sporks. It was actually the same sporks since elementary school to high school.

 

[Ninjahedge]

I went to public schools in a predominantly yuppie area.

The number of kids per grade in elementary was smaller than middle and high school (they split the schools up at the lower levels), but the HS class size was about 200 per grade.

We did not have microwaves. We did not have cubbies or trays o put anything on. You either carried it with you, put it in the locker, or bought your lunch at the cafeteria. OTOH, so long as you wee not bringing in steak knives, nobody freaked about pocket knives or other things unless you were caught damaging property with it. (Yes, I am old).

When a few people abuse or misuse something, everyone else suffers. To prevent major loss, small things are changed for everyone.

Other things, OTOH, are just stupid. Not allowing cupcakes on a kids birthday? Saying that that is responsible for bad eating habits? Sorry, no. Cupcakes were the thing 20-30 years ago and we had nowhere near the weight problem we have today.

Some rules make sense, sadly. Others only give over-controlling paranoid parents the chance to feel like they have power over something when their precious is not by their side.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Missed most of this convo, but my school never had any utensils beyond sporks. It was actually the same sporks since elementary school to high school.

Plastic spork and knife here.

 

[WelshBloke]

Simple.

It is easier to have a pile of plastic butter knives ready than to have to keep your eye out and inspect every knife that comes into the school at lunchtime.

We already know that the taxpayer is unwilling to pay more money for schools in general, how do you think they will respond to having to have another lunch aid just to help check everyone's cutlery?

I'm still missing the need to examine everyone's cutlery. Has there been a massive spate of people being buttered to death that I've missed?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'm still missing the need to examine everyone's cutlery. Has there been a massive spate of people being buttered to death that I've missed?

No, just a massive cancerous growth of risk management types.

 

[GotIssues]

I'm still missing the need to examine everyone's cutlery. Has there been a massive spate of people being buttered to death that I've missed?

Yes, because the only thing a knife can be used for is to spread butter