Stop the presses: Kids with real majors have easier time finding jobs

[BoberFett]

See, you have the brain defect knows as excessive fear and suspicion of the motivations of others, whereas I have the sunny optimism of a liberal.

Really? Because you seem to be quite fearful and suspicious of conservatives. If you'd stop lying to yourself you'd see how you are what you hate.

The mind I meant, of course, would be the human mind without mental defect, lots and lots of such minds working together, human consciousness.

In other words, re-educate (or eliminate when necessary) those who don't see as you do, leaving only those who agree with you. Scary, and worthy of fear and suspicious. Ayers, is that you?

Violent dictators throughout history would be proud of you Moonbeam, you masterfully extol the virtues of eugenics in a seemingly peaceful message.

 

[Moonbeam]

Really? Because you seem to be quite fearful and suspicious of conservatives. If you'd stop lying to yourself you'd see how you are what you hate.



In other words, re-educate (or eliminate when necessary) those who don't see as you do, leaving only those who agree with you. Scary, and worthy of fear and suspicious. Ayers, is that you?

Violent dictators throughout history would be proud of you Moonbeam, you masterfully extol the virtues of eugenics in a seemingly peaceful message.

You always see yourself in me but I don't blame you.

 

[chucky2]

I work for the County of Maui as a GIS Technician II. There's no possibility of promotion unless a GIS Analyst retires or dies.

I do have good contacts on this island and in Texas, but so far it hasn't helped. I've applied for jobs I more than qualify for but been turned down. I missed a job opportunity a couple weeks ago because I don't have a security clearance. But that is completely beside the point. A technician job should pay at least as much as the typical skilled trade. 40 years ago it would have... I'm guessing the equivalent position, a drafter or land tech, would have been paying enough to raise a family in 1970.

Public service is a dead end in general. I'm working on a photography business on the side and eventually I want that to be my only job.

I don't honestly know what to tell you then. You're in a location that is going to have limited growth potential because of its geographic location (think living in the sticks in the middle of Kansas).

On top of this you work for the government, who - hopefully - is going to try and keep costs down as much as possible to maximize their tax dollars and/or keep their over run down.

And additionally, you think a GIS Technician II should make some large amount of money per year. I could very well be wrong, and I apologize if I am, but, GIS Tech. II doesn't sound like a highly skilled job. GIS Analyst, the position above yours, doesn't sound like a highly skilled job. Why you are expecting what sounds like entry level, or entry level plus one, government jobs to pay $50k a year? From the sounds of them, you shouldn't be, yet are...I'd say your expectations are too high, not that they're paying too little.

I commend you on the side job, and I really do hope it takes off (HI should be a place to build an impressive collection of work). While you do that, is there not some other places you can apply (banks or other businesses on the island that need IT folks) where you might have better pay and/or growth opportunities?

Chuck

 

[BoberFett]

You always see yourself in me but I don't blame you.

Ah yes, the "I know you are but what am I" defense.

Were we 8 years old again, that might be legitimate.

Too bad we're adults (or supposed to be) and you'll need to do much better than that.

 

[Fern]

I think people should study what interests them. People should think about a job as something they want to do, something that interests them. I don't think they should just choose what offers them the most money or the best chance of employment.

We spend too much of our lives working. I don't how one can really be happy spending all day at something they hate or bores them, even if paid well.

I've found in my experience, I had a lot of money but no time to enjoy it because I worked so much. I also found myself too involved in my work, seemed to change me and/or obsess me. Otherwise in different jobs, I've had more free time, but not much money to enjoy the free time. Eventually I found out how to enjoy it without much money. IMO, being happy is worth far more than being rich.

I do realize the practical benefit (employment and some level of financial security) of choosing a field of study you think guaranteed to provide you a job. However, I think that's much harder to predict than most recognize. Things change, and often rather rapidly. So, basing a career decision on that metric is also risky.

As far as studying what interests you (underwater basket weaving etc.), it's stupid to pay about $40K (out of state tuition) a year for something that won't provide a RoI. Just go do it.

Fern

 

[Hugo Drax]

“The major obviously has a huge role in it, compared to some of my friends that are marketing majors who still are struggling to find full-time employment right now,”


Yea what's with all these people majoring in Marketing these days? The market (pun not intended) is saturated with marketing degrees, and all its done is make the average salary lower as people compete for those limited jobs.

Marketing degree takes a minimum of effort to attain. Since kids are told you have to get a college degree or else live under a bridge, students will just look for the easiest degrees they can get.

They make the assumption that a college degree is a fungible asset and will provide riches regardless of what they get so why not take the easy route.

 

[sunzt]

I thought Astrophysics would be a low demand position. Wonder if it's that the supply is even smaller or if there's a real growth in the field. What kind of companies would hire one other than for research?

You're likely correct about Astrophysics. It's the supply that's really low. Even when i graduated in 07 i saw that the astrophysics unemployment was really really low (don't know if it was 0 though) compared to engineering, but only had like 1/10 of the grads as an engineering degree. I think the pay was also pretty good too.

 

[sactoking]

4 degrees with 0% unemployment: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/news/economy/1205/gallery.high-demand-jobs/?iid=EL

Actuarial Science, Astrophysics, Pharmacology, Geophysics

That's a bullshit article. Look at the astrophysics guy: he says he thinks astrophysics should be in high demand, so that's why it's on the list. He then goes on to say that astrophysics is a field you can work in with a BS since that's what he did, discounting the fact that it sounds like he lucked into a job that he normally wouldn't be qualified for.

Then take the actuarial science person. I know for a fact that there is a large segment of actuaries who are jobless. I know this because whenever there is an actuary job opening we get hundreds of applicants, most who are currently unemployed.

 

[sunzt]

That's a bullshit article. Look at the astrophysics guy: he says he thinks astrophysics should be in high demand, so that's why it's on the list. He then goes on to say that astrophysics is a field you can work in with a BS since that's what he did, discounting the fact that it sounds like he lucked into a job that he normally wouldn't be qualified for.

Then take the actuarial science person. I know for a fact that there is a large segment of actuaries who are jobless. I know this because whenever there is an actuary job opening we get hundreds of applicants, most who are currently unemployed.

Quick google search says actuaries are growing faster than other math and computer jobs.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Math/Actuaries.htm#tab-6

Another search of astrophysics says they're pretty employable as well with high employment

http://boingboing.net/2011/12/06/are-100-of-astronomy-majors-e.html

0% is obviously a headline to catch clicks.

 

[Throckmorton]

I don't honestly know what to tell you then. You're in a location that is going to have limited growth potential because of its geographic location (think living in the sticks in the middle of Kansas).

On top of this you work for the government, who - hopefully - is going to try and keep costs down as much as possible to maximize their tax dollars and/or keep their over run down.

And additionally, you think a GIS Technician II should make some large amount of money per year. I could very well be wrong, and I apologize if I am, but, GIS Tech. II doesn't sound like a highly skilled job. GIS Analyst, the position above yours, doesn't sound like a highly skilled job. Why you are expecting what sounds like entry level, or entry level plus one, government jobs to pay $50k a year? From the sounds of them, you shouldn't be, yet are...I'd say your expectations are too high, not that they're paying too little.

I commend you on the side job, and I really do hope it takes off (HI should be a place to build an impressive collection of work). While you do that, is there not some other places you can apply (banks or other businesses on the island that need IT folks) where you might have better pay and/or growth opportunities?

Chuck

$50k is equivalent to about $30k in a rural part of the mainland. It's not a high salary. A GIS technician should be making enough to survive, as laborers, policemen, teachers, and other technicians do.

An "electronics repairer" starts at $49.7k http://www.mauicounty.gov/jobs.aspx?isEmployer=False&jobID=328

The only other employers of GIS people are the state and a few gov contractor type companies. I saw a job in Honolulu at the water department and they were paying $42k. The cost of living in Honolulu is insanely high, much more than here-- a tiny studio apartment costs $1200-1500 over there.

Basically Hawaii private companies and governments depend on workers taking low wages because they can save money by living with their extended families. "Ohana" subsidizes employers.


Anyway, the point is that just because you have a good degree and get a job with it doesn't mean you don't have a reason to be angry about wealth concentration.

 

[Throckmorton]

Quick google search says actuaries are growing faster than other math and computer jobs.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Math/Actuaries.htm#tab-6

Another search of astrophysics says they're pretty employable as well with high employment

http://boingboing.net/2011/12/06/are-100-of-astronomy-majors-e.html

0% is obviously a headline to catch clicks.

I bet next year 2x as many people major in astronomy, thanks to these articles, and then in 4 years the unemployment rate in that field will be 50%.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, uhh, what the OP offers, with the usual fluffers chiming in, is that it's better to get a degree with a lower rate of unemployment, which sounds great, until you realize that the majority of those aren't generally finding work in their fields, either.

15 years ago, any IT related degree was in demand. 5 years later, they were a dime a dozen. 10 years ago, it was finance- today, not so much. Geologists are always in demand when the price of oil is up, but the stuff from their office is in a box at security when the price falls...

Any field where people flock to that major will suffer from over supply of labor after only a few years in today's economy.

 

[Doppel]

You always see yourself in me but I don't blame you.

Yes, the old mirror defense you so love. You've been saying the same thing for so long it is no surprise most just ignore you. I will congratulate your amazing ability to say the exact same thing over and over, each time with a new analogy, though.

 

[Kadarin]

If you drop ball bearings down a hole onto a series of pegs you will get a probability distribution curve of how the balls fell, but if you interview each ball to get it's story, especially the ones that fell to extremes, you will get a story of individual hard work and egotistical worthiness. None of the balls will tell you they are where they are totally by chance. They will tell you of motivation, perseverance, intelligence and perspiration, but they will never tell you they had those also only by chance. It is but for the grace of God that I didn't turn out to be a worthless self-congratulatory boob like that, so much better than other people, so vain about who I am. Sometimes when God drops a ball, I guess, it just floats and doesn't fall and then goes wherever it wants. But leave it to the toys of gravity to self congratulate themselves on that fact. Some of you fucks are really going to hurt when you find out. No wonder you worship being asleep.

Sometimes I wonder what you actually do for a living.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ah yes, the "I know you are but what am I" defense.

Were we 8 years old again, that might be legitimate.

Too bad we're adults (or supposed to be) and you'll need to do much better than that.

You always see yourself in me but I don't blame you.

 

[woolfe9999]

$50k is equivalent to about $30k in a rural part of the mainland. It's not a high salary. A GIS technician should be making enough to survive, as laborers, policemen, teachers, and other technicians do.

An "electronics repairer" starts at $49.7k http://www.mauicounty.gov/jobs.aspx?isEmployer=False&jobID=328

The only other employers of GIS people are the state and a few gov contractor type companies. I saw a job in Honolulu at the water department and they were paying $42k. The cost of living in Honolulu is insanely high, much more than here-- a tiny studio apartment costs $1200-1500 over there.

Basically Hawaii private companies and governments depend on workers taking low wages because they can save money by living with their extended families. "Ohana" subsidizes employers.


Anyway, the point is that just because you have a good degree and get a job with it doesn't mean you don't have a reason to be angry about wealth concentration.

A friend of mine is a GIS II (I think) working for the California Department of Agriculture. He doesn't make that much either. Barely a living. He squeaks by. Doesn't seem to be that high paid no matter where you are.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes, the old mirror defense you so love. You've been saying the same thing for so long it is no surprise most just ignore you. I will congratulate your amazing ability to say the exact same thing over and over, each time with a new analogy, though.

Thank you. Seeing the truth makes analogies easy for me. Here you saw your own defensiveness in me. A mirror reflects, it doesn't defend. See what I mean.

 

[Infohawk]

The 0% unemployment for astrophysics major makes me think there's a problem with the sample size here. I would imagine engineering majors have lower unemployment, but zero is a little hard to believe.

It's a little more complicated than is sometimes suggested by people. Some liberal arts degrees are not terribly useful at the bachelor's level but can be useful with a masters or Ph.D. Psych for example. Others are useful background for professional degrees such as law or business (MBA). If compared at the bachelor's level, in today's economy the technical degrees are going to come out on top. They may still come out on top even if compared at the graduate level, but the picture is different there.

Yes. People in this forum consistently ignore the fact that many liberal arts grads go on to graduate school. Some of these graduates (school administrators, lawyers) go on to make significantly more than the average engineer. Not that it should all be about money, but that does seem to be a big argument for the everyone should be an engineer crowd.

P.S. But yes I agree with the premise of the thread: Don't get a BS in expressionist dance and then b1tch you can't feed yourself or the three kids you had to have.

People need to stay away from the exaggerations. You're not going to die on the street if you major in an art. You're probably not even going to die on the street if you don't have a college degree. 2/3 of the people in this country don't have a college degree! I'm pretty sure they're having kids. They might not have all the newest toys but still...

15 years ago, any IT related degree was in demand. 5 years later, they were a dime a dozen. 10 years ago, it was finance- today, not so much. Geologists are always in demand when the price of oil is up, but the stuff from their office is in a box at security when the price falls...

Any field where people flock to that major will suffer from over supply of labor after only a few years in today's economy.

And it's going to be hard to predict what majors are in demand 25 years from now. One would think that science would be in a lot of demand, but it's conceivable advances could decrease the relative demand for people with quantitative skills.

Look at the video game industry. In the past few years I haven't seen that many advances in video game engines. They appear to be mostly incremental graphics improvements. It's been more about new content, which is largely artistic or creative. I'm not trying to say that CS is worse than an art major, just that it's not as clear cut as

1. linear algebra
2. ???
3. profit

 

[davmat787]

Imagine if the world were built by a beautiful mind that wanted to create heaven on earth and had employed the people of earth to build it for the last 5000 years with no breaks for war and destruction. The whole planet would be an oasis of science arts and crafts. But we like to live like rats that dig up ore for cheese to make weapons to poison our cheese. And the whole thing is perpetuated by the egos of the better off rats who get more cheese and want it to stay that way. Fuck the oasis, they say, their minds damaged by the poison. What an ambition to have, to be the greatest rat that ever lived. Every child is born with infinitely more than any adult has ever had, well with some exceptions, like folk who tell you who will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yea, well human nature sucks. Sure it would be nice if the last 5000 years were without war and destruction, but that is not within the ability of our species. At least not yet. I believe in a duality to all things, a yin to the yang so to speak. For all of humanities accomplishments and acts of compassion, you have instances where the darker side of our human nature manifests itself.

In short, I don't think you can have love without hate. Or peace without war. Hate makes love more precious and valuable, war makes peace more precious and valuable.

Would you truly appreciate the taste of a sweet if you have never experienced the sour?

 

[Genx87]

A friend of mine is a GIS II (I think) working for the California Department of Agriculture. He doesn't make that much either. Barely a living. He squeaks by. Doesn't seem to be that high paid no matter where you are.

My buddies sister has a GIS degree. She never worked in the field due to terrible wages. The degree doesnt seem to be worth much. She ended up going back to school and became a professor.

 

[silverpig]

4 degrees with 0% unemployment: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/news/economy/1205/gallery.high-demand-jobs/?iid=EL

Actuarial Science, Astrophysics, Pharmacology, Geophysics

<--- astrophysics degree, employed (but in business)

 

[BoberFett]

You always see yourself in me but I don't blame you.

And you'll never see yourself in conservatives, but I don't blame you. Pity you, but not blame you.

 

[Jhhnn]

What Moonbeam offers is that luck plays a part, often a much bigger part than we'd like to admit, from the accident of birth to whatever innate talents we might have.

There are people who worked & do work a lot harder than I do, or than Mitt does, who really have damned little to show for it. I've been lucky in a small way, Mitt in a big way.

We all need to be a lot less judgmental at times, a lot less self aggrandizing, and realize that there, but for the grace of God (or whatever you want to call it) go I, and act accordingly.

 

[Moonbeam]

davmat787:Yea, well human nature sucks.

M: The thing about being open minded and free of brain defect is to analyze our questions. I have mentioned a thousand times that we are in a catch 22.

Here, what you are doing is assuming that you know what human nature is. If you do not and think you do, you reach an end that is a dead end if the assumption is false. So let us say that it sucks to be the humans we see and are. Let us leave open whether we are what we were meant to be, if we can.

d: Sure it would be nice if the last 5000 years were without war and destruction, but that is not within the ability of our species.

M: Again it has not been within our ability. The question is, well two actually, that I see. First of all if we may not know our true natures we may not know what we are capable of, and also, it may not take the whole species. Maybe all that matters is you, that you find out if you have that ability. Who can say what you may be capable if you are capable of something you do not today imagine.

d: At least not yet.

M: Yes, not yet.

d: I believe in a duality to all things, a yin to the yang so to speak. For all of humanities accomplishments and acts of compassion, you have instances where the darker side of our human nature manifests itself.

I believe they are one in the same thing. I believe there is only unity and duality is an illusion, one made possible by language, the assigning of a symbol to a piece of reality, the tree separate from the forest so that we see things and not context, the overarching unity. This happens because words divide thing into symbols that are not the things, and because emotions can be attached to words. You quickly learn what it means to be a bad child. But a small child is unified. He is what he feels and what he sees.

So I believe that the reason people are sad is because they remember deep down the joy of unity, the grief of its loss, and the longing to recover it.

d: In short, I don't think you can have love without hate. Or peace without war. Hate makes love more precious and valuable, war makes peace more precious and valuable.

M: In duality yes, but not in unity. In unity there is only love and nothing else, no self, no world, no things, only perfect being.

d: Would you truly appreciate the taste of a sweet if you have never experienced the sour?

M: You do not have to worry about that. You know what sour is.

So the question is, can the mind be free of duality. My friend LR who has a strange mind seems to think that when the mind is one time comes to a stop and you can be any time and place you wish eternally. He already lives in the oasis, it seems to me.

 

[Moonbeam]

And you'll never see yourself in conservatives, but I don't blame you. Pity you, but not blame you.

Thank you. Your statement is obvious. How could I ever know your mind if I didn't know mine. Nobody sees anything in another he has not seen in himself. If you can remember that every minute you will I think become a lot kinder.