Stop the presses: Kids with real majors have easier time finding jobs

[davmat787]

M: In duality yes, but not in unity. In unity there is only love and nothing else, no self, no world, no things, only perfect being.

I don't think human nature allows for your vision of unity, especially on a global/macro level. It is a nice dream, but reality kicks unity right in the nuts.

Why can't even a 12 person commune work most of the time? Even back in the 60's when they were the rage, they usually failed after 6-12 months. Why? Because human nature is powerful, more powerful than their vision and desire of unity. Human nature is not compatible with communism.

In my opinion, we have to collectively and individually acknowledge all of our negative and positive aspects of our human nature, and take that into account when dreaming the next great *ism or whatever. Because eventually, it will overpower whatever grandiose dream we will endeavor. Agree or not, does this make sense to you?

PS: I am not equating your notion of unity as some hippie nonsense. Just using the commune example as a microcosm of the point I was trying to make. Don't want you to get the wrong idea.

 

[Zebo]

I think people should study what interests them. People should think about a job as something they want to do, something that interests them. I don't think they should just choose what offers them the most money or the best chance of employment.

We spend too much of our lives working. I don't how one can really be happy spending all day at something they hate or bores them, even if paid well.

I've found in my experience, I had a lot of money but no time to enjoy it because I worked so much. I also found myself too involved in my work, seemed to change me and/or obsess me. Otherwise in different jobs, I've had more free time, but not much money to enjoy the free time. Eventually I found out how to enjoy it without much money. IMO, being happy is worth far more than being rich.

I do realize the practical benefit (employment and some level of financial security) of choosing a field of study you think guaranteed to provide you a job. However, I think that's much harder to predict than most recognize. Things change, and often rather rapidly. So, basing a career decision on that metric is also risky.

As far as studying what interests you (underwater basket weaving etc.), it's stupid to pay about $40K (out of state tuition) a year for something that won't provide a RoI. Just go do it.

Fern

True but having a job and some scarifies made it so I had credit and cash to do what I wanted to do. Hell I spent a year in hellhole Saudi Arabia by myself with young family at home just to make enough $ so I could do certain things and not live pay check to pay check anymore. My parents had money but old school, came here with $90 in 1960 and said we can do it too so we were on our own at 18.

If I did what I wanted it would have been art - but I realized there are only two types of artists really rich .001% and really poor 99.99% so I took a circuitous route to same ends.

 

[Moonbeam]

What Moonbeam offers is that luck plays a part, often a much bigger part than we'd like to admit, from the accident of birth to whatever innate talents we might have.

There are people who worked & do work a lot harder than I do, or than Mitt does, who really have damned little to show for it. I've been lucky in a small way, Mitt in a big way.

We all need to be a lot less judgmental at times, a lot less self aggrandizing, and realize that there, but for the grace of God (or whatever you want to call it) go I, and act accordingly.

Folk focus on the ego because they were made to feel worthless. Success should make a person know they can't be worthless and succeed, but they rarely do, the bad cases at least. We have known from childhood stories about how the truly strong, don't need to prove it, that pride goes before a fall, and that egotistical people are selfish and self obsessed, lonely and sad, really. Modest unassuming people are much more happy because they don't spend tons of energy polishing up their egos. They just enjoy themselves, two old tramps by the rail, laughing their asses off. This is why the rich can't get through the eye of a needle. It's not their moneybags that are too fat, but their heads.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't think human nature allows for your vision of unity, especially on a global/macro level. It is a nice dream, but reality kicks unity right in the nuts.

Why can't even a 12 person commune work most of the time? Even back in the 60's when they were the rage, they usually failed after 6-12 months. Why? Because human nature is powerful, more powerful than their vision and desire of unity. Human nature is not compatible with communism.

In my opinion, we have to collectively and individually acknowledge all of our negative and positive aspects of our human nature, and take that into account when dreaming the next great *ism or whatever. Because eventually, it will overpower whatever grandiose dream we will endeavor. Agree or not, does this make sense to you?

PS: I am not equating your notion of unity as some hippie nonsense. Just using the commune example as a microcosm of the point I was trying to make. Don't want you to get the wrong idea.

There are monasteries where real knowledge was taught that have run for thousands of years. Ah, but then I guess most of those aren't too well known.

But everything you say makes perfect sense to me. In my opinion the problem is that people do not know that they do not like themselves and destroy anything that would make them feel better because in addition to hating themselves they also believe they deserve to be hated. This is profoundly difficult to root out because nobody wants to remember how painful it was being made to feel this way.

I hope that even if you can't believe what I say you can see the internal consistency and logic of my explanation. What my theory does is account for the origin of evil and duality and how we kicked ourselves out of the Garden of Eden by using words to imply that there is evil in our kids.

 

[Zebo]

What Moonbeam offers is that luck plays a part, often a much bigger part than we'd like to admit, from the accident of birth to whatever innate talents we might have.

There are people who worked & do work a lot harder than I do, or than Mitt does, who really have damned little to show for it. I've been lucky in a small way, Mitt in a big way.

We all need to be a lot less judgmental at times, a lot less self aggrandizing, and realize that there, but for the grace of God (or whatever you want to call it) go I, and act accordingly.

It's all about market position not luck (as if there is such a thing maybe you mean probability.)

There is a difference between say GWB and you. He went to private school. You went likely to public school. His brother was president of an S&L so he could fail 5x and still get loans. You fail and good luck ever getting another SBA loan. etc etc etc

There are ways to improve market position such as education (become a doctor or engineer) but hard work is rarely gonna do it. Those who work the hardest are usually the poorest like a ditch digger, staff in the back of restaurant, etc.

We can change market positions also politically. No rule says a fry cook must make minimum wage.

 

[davmat787]

There are monasteries where real knowledge was taught that have run for thousands of years. Ah, but then I guess most of those aren't too well known.

But everything you say makes perfect sense to me. In my opinion the problem is that people do not know that they do not like themselves and destroy anything that would make them feel better because in addition to hating themselves they also believe they deserve to be hated. This is profoundly difficult to root out because nobody wants to remember how painful it was being made to feel this way.

I hope that even if you can't believe what I say you can see the internal consistency and logic of my explanation. What my theory does is account for the origin of evil and duality and how we kicked ourselves out of the Garden of Eden by using words to imply that there is evil in our kids.

I do understand what you are driving at, and to be honest, don't know exactly what I think of it yet. It is a unique and interesting idea.

As for the monasteries, some of the best beer I have ever had was made by monks. Belgian Trippel's made by Monks... does not get much better than that.

 

[LunarRay]

Sometimes I wonder what you actually do for a living.

Look to the heavens and keep looking ... in time you might see what Moonbeam does for a living. But look sharp because some things move so fast that the unaided eye cannot see.

 

[cybrsage]

...

 

[cybrsage]

Here are some of the accomplishments of a woman who earns her living with the fucking ridiculous and worthless job of hugging people:

Charitable Activities

[edit] Disaster Relief

Where did you steal this from?

 

[cybrsage]

The motivational force of the ego not to see the equivalency is what the brain defect is all about.

When you shine a light behind a curtain, the curtain brightens unless it is a black out curtain, then it stops the light completely. You are holding a black out curtain over your own light, ensuring that you remain in darkness and you wallow in your own self induced loss. While in the darkness of your own creation (from which you never do escape), you complain that others are the cause of the darkness, when it is really self caused. I do not blame you, you are blind to it, for it takes light to see and you remain in the dark.

 

[LunarRay]

When you shine a light behind a curtain, the curtain brightens unless it is a black out curtain, then it stops the light completely. You are holding a black out curtain over your own light, ensuring that you remain in darkness and you wallow in your own self induced loss. While in the darkness of your own creation (from which you never do escape), you complain that others are the cause of the darkness, when it is really self caused. I do not blame you, you are blind to it, for it takes light to see and you remain in the dark.

It is good that you do not recognize that Moonbeam is shining a light... He wishes you to see the curtain... That you are limited by that curtain to see the light he provides keeps your focus on his objective.

That is the duality he spoke to.

Duality is not the seeing Camels but, rather, seeing the camel poop! It is witnessing the carnage among the seekers of the Oasis' water. When you see the curtain and the light you might just know who is in the darkness and who is sipping the wine in the light.

The mind zooms about beyond beyond Einstein's greatest expectations... When you look to the heavens and the stars you accept it will be years until you know what occurred there... so be there and know the wonders unfolded before you. Only darkness defines limits... Seek the light, Darth.

 

[Doppel]

I think actually the curtain is a drape and the drape is very pretty and looks like it would work, but in fact it's made thinly and blocks nothing, and when the sun rises in the morning the drape does very little except piss you off for not getting a real black out curtain. So you go to Bed Bath and Beyond and get one and now you can sleep in and it's awesome. The drape is Moonbeam's one-trick pony. I can't believe a couple of you even take it seriously anymore. He's among the most damaged people on the forums and projects his own experiences as if we all must have shared them. Acts as a mirror because desperately does not want anybody to see inside.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think actually the curtain is a drape and the drape is very pretty and looks like it would work, but in fact it's made thinly and blocks nothing, and when the sun rises in the morning the drape does very little except piss you off for not getting a real black out curtain. So you go to Bed Bath and Beyond and get one and now you can sleep in and it's awesome. The drape is Moonbeam's one-trick pony. I can't believe a couple of you even take it seriously anymore. He's among the most damaged people on the forums and projects his own experiences as if we all must have shared them. Acts as a mirror because desperately does not want anybody to see inside.

Since your aim is to experience the awesomeness of sleeping in, my words wouldn't be for you. The blue pill is favored by D-cells.

 

[cybrsage]

It is good that you do not recognize that Moonbeam is shining a light... He wishes you to see the curtain... That you are limited by that curtain to see the light he provides keeps your focus on his objective.

That is the duality he spoke to.

Duality is not the seeing Camels but, rather, seeing the camel poop! It is witnessing the carnage among the seekers of the Oasis' water. When you see the curtain and the light you might just know who is in the darkness and who is sipping the wine in the light.

The mind zooms about beyond beyond Einstein's greatest expectations... When you look to the heavens and the stars you accept it will be years until you know what occurred there... so be there and know the wonders unfolded before you. Only darkness defines limits... Seek the light, Darth.

The excement of a camel can be found by its smell. Those who hide their light (but do not know they have done this to themselves due to their flaws) cannot see it, but they can smell it.

 

[Throckmorton]

Good luck. There is a glut of Photographers willing to work for pennies on the dollar.

The idea is to fill niches, photographing things that real photographers aren't.

For example, I went to former Governor Lingle's senate campaign office opening yesterday and took pictures. No one from the media was even there, apparently because there aren't enough Republicans on Maui. Of course I didn't sell any pictures but I did give them my card.

 

[Doppel]

So, uhh, what the OP offers, with the usual fluffers chiming in, is that it's better to get a degree with a lower rate of unemployment, which sounds great, until you realize that the majority of those aren't generally finding work in their fields, either.

15 years ago, any IT related degree was in demand. 5 years later, they were a dime a dozen. 10 years ago, it was finance- today, not so much. Geologists are always in demand when the price of oil is up, but the stuff from their office is in a box at security when the price falls...

Any field where people flock to that major will suffer from over supply of labor after only a few years in today's economy.

This is not strictly true. As I mentioned earlier can you identify a time in recent memory when a psychology degree was in high demand? A degree in history? I can name a time when a medical degree was in demand. That time was always.

That's the point. The point isn't that, say, a degree in nursing is always going to be a guaranteed job, but that even when things get sour it's going to be far more likely to result in one than the sociology degree.

 

[LunarRay]

The excement of a camel can be found by its smell. Those who hide their light (but do not know they have done this to themselves due to their flaws) cannot see it, but they can smell it.

Perhaps!

I was speaking to duality versus say... unity.

It is a gathering of what little we know as humans to be true within the finite capability of our understanding and extrapolating while including some belief aspects not capable of meeting the scientific method's criteria for 'proof'.

For instance: It has been found that to accelerate toward C seems to slow down time for the one doing the accelerating relative to the one observing this... And, if one accelerates near enough to C then all is unified into one... Mass, Length and Time and probably something else... Our physics friends might say that yup there is an equation to prove that... In that extreme as mass increases then like a black hole everything is drawn into a singularity of being... But that is termination, it seems.

What about the other direction where the mind slows down until time itself ceases to exist... One might ask how can one be in more than one place at the same time... As the Sufi folks claim... or folks seeing what they think are ghosts and all that... Can it be that one can rid their mind of everything to that point? I maintain it is possible... but only if the mind does not see the poop... smell the poop is the same as seeing it.. different sense is all...
The path from where we are to there requires defeating the barrier first... As the Zen Master eliminates emotion he moves toward this unity of self...

That is what I'm talking about... It is God's world... and where I'm headed either now or when according to God's plan I get to take the short cut...

 

[LunarRay]

I can't disagree more with this notion of choosing a path based on the need today or the expected need tomorrow...

I know... I know... believe me, I know... what you are thinking..

But, the basis of my assertion is that I believe we are each, by virtue of our brain's creation of our mind, disposed to some pursuit versus some other one. We can elect to go off and do this or that degree but we are designed to follow a particular one... It is how we are.
I left St. Peter's with a paper in my hand that gave me a free ride in Engineering.... But, I didn't really 'like' engineering... I had no idea what I 'liked' but soon found out... and got some words changed on that paper to do what I found to be the easiest possible thing to study... and therefore, my thing.. Intuitively, I knew what had to flow from one thing to the next.. I never had to study to know it... it was obvious.

So, Go do what you have this passion for... regardless of what subject it is... You'll max your potential and that may mean you'll be the best of the best... rather than a fishy among fish all scrambling for the bits someone drops in the pond...

 

[polarmystery]

Sometimes I wonder if humanity has a future.

Just because someone likes making pottery does not mean they can earn a living off pottery.

Agree 100%. Unfortunately, people have been groomed to think otherwise and it is a shame.

 

[DCal430]

A friend of mine is a GIS II (I think) working for the California Department of Agriculture. He doesn't make that much either. Barely a living. He squeaks by. Doesn't seem to be that high paid no matter where you are.

The minimum pay for that position in the state is 55,000. If he has been in that position for 2 years then then the minimum would be 60,000. Not sure how he is just squeaking by when I am doing fine.

 

[DCal430]

I was looking through the study and report they are referring to and damn thing doesn't include my major.

 

[actuarial]

Then take the actuarial science person. I know for a fact that there is a large segment of actuaries who are jobless. I know this because whenever there is an actuary job opening we get hundreds of applicants, most who are currently unemployed.

Were these actual actuaries (ASA/FSA/ACAS/FCAS) that were unemployed, or just people who are applying for actuarial jobs? Here in TO nearly every firm has permanent job postings and we compete for co-ops/interns (who get paid in the 40s).

I graduated in 08 and my experience with respect to classmates who were offered actuarial jobs was similar to the article. The few that didn't get jobs were never gonna stick anyways (already had multiple failed attempts at the preliminary exams).

Obviously 0% is unrealistic though.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's all about market position not luck (as if there is such a thing maybe you mean probability.)

There is a difference between say GWB and you. He went to private school. You went likely to public school. His brother was president of an S&L so he could fail 5x and still get loans. You fail and good luck ever getting another SBA loan. etc etc etc

There are ways to improve market position such as education (become a doctor or engineer) but hard work is rarely gonna do it. Those who work the hardest are usually the poorest like a ditch digger, staff in the back of restaurant, etc.

We can change market positions also politically. No rule says a fry cook must make minimum wage.

Dubya got lucky the day he was born. The rest follows from there. Same for Mitt.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is not strictly true. As I mentioned earlier can you identify a time in recent memory when a psychology degree was in high demand? A degree in history? I can name a time when a medical degree was in demand. That time was always.

That's the point. The point isn't that, say, a degree in nursing is always going to be a guaranteed job, but that even when things get sour it's going to be far more likely to result in one than the sociology degree.

Psychology is a field that demands advanced degrees, as are architecture, medicine & many others. That hasn't changed in 50 years. What has changed are general employment opportunities, which are simply way down. We have a system where opportunities have been narrowed & diminished for everybody other than those already wealthy, who are doing better than ever. It's the result of 30 years of the failure of trickledown economic policy.

 

[Throckmorton]

The minimum pay for that position in the state is 55,000. If he has been in that position for 2 years then then the minimum would be 60,000. Not sure how he is just squeaking by when I am doing fine.

Is that $55k for GIS technicians or GIS analysts? A GIS analyst is a programmer (not someone who does GIS analysis) who could probably get a job as a software engineer making $80k.