Starting up Christianity/Accountability Groups.

[Metalloid]

ILikeStuff you will need to enable PM's so I can send you the link to the thread.

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

See, okay, this doesn't make any sense to me. What's the whole point of praying????

Here's the reasoning:
1) When you pray, you ask God to make things happen for you.
2) God has a plan for everyone. This means that God has already decided what will and will not happen for you.
3) Therefore, whether or not you ask God to make something happen will NOT change whether or not said something will happen -- reason being that God has already determined what will happen to you REGARDLESS of whether you pray.

Therefore, praying is a big waste of time.

Valsalva

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: Vic
Believe what you want about God or religion, that is what the Bible is. It has also been archeologically proven to be extremely historically accurate. But you will find that out soon enough when you read it. Most people who haven't read it think that it's all God and religion. It's not.

I think one of the greatest INCONSISTENCIES in the typical "Christian argument" is how much proof they require that evolution by natural selection occurs. They demand "hard evidence" that evolution exists -- which could only be obtained by watching evolution occur, albeit over millions of years (which is impossible to do ). Yet, they're willing to accept the most ridiculous/ludicrous explanations that support the bible only because they want to believe in it so badly. Yes, we have just proved the bible's accuracy using archaeology...gimme a fricking break.
Here's a great proof for you:
God is Love.
Love is blind.
Ray Charles is blind.
Therefore, Ray Charles is God.

Valsalva

 

[QTArrhythmic]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Vic
Believe what you want about God or religion, that is what the Bible is. It has also been archeologically proven to be extremely historically accurate. But you will find that out soon enough when you read it. Most people who haven't read it think that it's all God and religion. It's not.

I think one of the greatest INCONSISTENCIES in the typical "Christian argument" is how much proof they require that evolution by natural selection occurs. They demand "hard evidence" that evolution exists -- which could only be obtained by watching evolution occur, albeit over millions of years (which is impossible to do ). Yet, they're willing to accept the most ridiculous/ludicrous explanations that support the bible only because they want to believe in it so badly. Yes, we have just proved the bible's accuracy using archaeology...gimme a fricking break.
Here's a great proof for you:
God is Love.
Love is blind.
Ray Charles is blind.
Therefore, Ray Charles is God.

Valsalva

You can also learn this logic

here.

 

[Orsorum]

I am not a Christian now, but I have been involved in several accountability groups in the past. They helped me and many others in the struggles with the Christian faith and reconciling the paradoxes of this world.

I wish you luck in getting this started.

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Vic
Believe what you want about God or religion, that is what the Bible is. It has also been archeologically proven to be extremely historically accurate. But you will find that out soon enough when you read it. Most people who haven't read it think that it's all God and religion. It's not.

I think one of the greatest INCONSISTENCIES in the typical "Christian argument" is how much proof they require that evolution by natural selection occurs. They demand "hard evidence" that evolution exists -- which could only be obtained by watching evolution occur, albeit over millions of years (which is impossible to do ). Yet, they're willing to accept the most ridiculous/ludicrous explanations that support the bible only because they want to believe in it so badly. Yes, we have just proved the bible's accuracy using archaeology...gimme a fricking break.
Here's a great proof for you:
God is Love.
Love is blind.
Ray Charles is blind.
Therefore, Ray Charles is God.

Valsalva

I'm sorry, maybe you do not understand the point of this thread. Try reading the first post.

Oh and as far as the prayer thing is concerned:

John 16:23 "....I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name."

And yes God already has a plan for us, so to you praying may not make sense. But in reality, God already knew that we were going to pray for something. And he already knew that I was going to type this sentence. Try not to think about it too much; it is not meant for us to understand...... yet.

 

[jaydee]

"The fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much".

I'm in.

 

[fonzinator]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut
See, okay, this doesn't make any sense to me. What's the whole point of praying????

Here's the reasoning:
1) When you pray, you ask God to make things happen for you.
2) God has a plan for everyone. This means that God has already decided what will and will not happen for you.
3) Therefore, whether or not you ask God to make something happen will NOT change whether or not said something will happen -- reason being that God has already determined what will happen to you REGARDLESS of whether you pray.

Therefore, praying is a big waste of time.

Valsalva

It's awesome to see that you are thinking about these tough questions! However, I think your logic is a little off. Based on your #3, you are saying that our actions are prescripted by God regardless of prayer. A few things should be noted about prayer: 1) It's commanded of us by Jesus: Luke 11. 2) The Lord asks us to give our praises, concerns, needs to Him: Pslam 55:22; John 16:23. 3) The Bible clearly shows that events are cased by prayer: The story of Abraham's servant sent to find him a wife out of Genesis 24:12-27 is one of MANY great examples. One cannot say "It is worthless to pray because I know God already has my steps planned out." While the Lord does already have our days numbered, every event (even our prayers) soverignly planned, to not pray is simply not an answer prescribed in scripture.

I believe your confusion lies in God's soverignty interacting with our choices. Now this is a huge can of worms and at the end lies a mystery of God we will never know. However, God's soveringty and man's choices are not contradictory. The Bible is most clear that God's soveringty works in such a way, that our choices are perfectly aligned with his soverign plan. How this works...that is the mystery. It is not for us to know how it works; we can simply agree that it does!

Your thoughts? I'd highly recommend R.C. Sproul's lecture series on this exact topic: God's Soverignty and the Free Will of Man.

 

[ILikeStuff]

Originally posted by: fonzinator

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut
See, okay, this doesn't make any sense to me. What's the whole point of praying????

Here's the reasoning:
1) When you pray, you ask God to make things happen for you.
2) God has a plan for everyone. This means that God has already decided what will and will not happen for you.
3) Therefore, whether or not you ask God to make something happen will NOT change whether or not said something will happen -- reason being that God has already determined what will happen to you REGARDLESS of whether you pray.

Therefore, praying is a big waste of time.

Valsalva

It's awesome to see that you are thinking about these tough questions! However, I think your logic is a little off. Based on your #3, you are saying that our actions are prescripted by God regardless of prayer. A few things should be noted about prayer: 1) It's commanded of us by Jesus: Luke 11. 2) The Lord asks us to give our praises, concerns, needs to Him: Pslam 55:22; John 16:23. 3) The Bible clearly shows that events are cased by prayer: The story of Abraham's servant sent to find him a wife out of Genesis 24:12-27 is one of MANY great examples. One cannot say "It is worthless to pray because I know God already has my steps planned out." While the Lord does already have our days numbered, every event (even our prayers) soverignly planned, to not pray is simply not an answer prescribed in scripture.

I believe your confusion lies in God's soverignty interacting with our choices. Now this is a huge can of worms and at the end lies a mystery of God we will never know. However, God's soveringty and man's choices are not contradictory. The Bible is most clear that God's soveringty works in such a way, that our choices are perfectly aligned with his soverign plan. How this works...that is the mystery. It is not for us to know how it works; we can simply agree that it does!

Your thoughts? I'd highly recommend R.C. Sproul's lecture series on this exact topic: God's Soverignty and the Free Will of Man.

I think what you are all overlooking in this is that prayer is NOT about asking for things, that is PART of prayer, but not the ultimate goal. Prayer is a means of communicating and building your relationship with God. Without communication, there is no effective relationship. Think along the lines of an significant other. If you want any kind of good, lasting, intimate relationship, you have to TALK to one another. It is similar with God. You talk to him through prayer and he talks to you through His Word and the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

Your ultimate goal is NOT to get what YOU want, but to align your desires with the will of God. That is when your life will be the most complete, have the most meaning, and be the most joyful

Edit: I turned on PMs

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: ILikeStuff

Originally posted by: fonzinator

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut
See, okay, this doesn't make any sense to me. What's the whole point of praying????

Here's the reasoning:
1) When you pray, you ask God to make things happen for you.
2) God has a plan for everyone. This means that God has already decided what will and will not happen for you.
3) Therefore, whether or not you ask God to make something happen will NOT change whether or not said something will happen -- reason being that God has already determined what will happen to you REGARDLESS of whether you pray.

Therefore, praying is a big waste of time.

Valsalva

It's awesome to see that you are thinking about these tough questions! However, I think your logic is a little off. Based on your #3, you are saying that our actions are prescripted by God regardless of prayer. A few things should be noted about prayer: 1) It's commanded of us by Jesus: Luke 11. 2) The Lord asks us to give our praises, concerns, needs to Him: Pslam 55:22; John 16:23. 3) The Bible clearly shows that events are cased by prayer: The story of Abraham's servant sent to find him a wife out of Genesis 24:12-27 is one of MANY great examples. One cannot say "It is worthless to pray because I know God already has my steps planned out." While the Lord does already have our days numbered, every event (even our prayers) soverignly planned, to not pray is simply not an answer prescribed in scripture.

I believe your confusion lies in God's soverignty interacting with our choices. Now this is a huge can of worms and at the end lies a mystery of God we will never know. However, God's soveringty and man's choices are not contradictory. The Bible is most clear that God's soveringty works in such a way, that our choices are perfectly aligned with his soverign plan. How this works...that is the mystery. It is not for us to know how it works; we can simply agree that it does!

Your thoughts? I'd highly recommend R.C. Sproul's lecture series on this exact topic: God's Soverignty and the Free Will of Man.

I think what you are all overlooking in this is that prayer is NOT about asking for things, that is PART of prayer, but not the ultimate goal. Prayer is a means of communicating and building your relationship with God. Without communication, there is no effective relationship. Think along the lines of an significant other. If you want any kind of good, lasting, intimate relationship, you have to TALK to one another. It is similar with God. You talk to him through prayer and he talks to you through His Word and the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

Your ultimate goal is NOT to get what YOU want, but to align your desires with the will of God. That is when your life will be the most complete, have the most meaning, and be the most joyful

Edit: I turned on PMs

Wow, I love it. Probably the most perfect description of prayer I have ever herad.

I PM'ed you the link also.

 

[Netopia]

Originally posted by: Antisocial-Virge

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: tnitsuj I would love to join your group. Seems like a really good idea...I have been looking for other born agains to pray with and for me to ....................POOP ONNNN!!!!

Thanks for your contribution to our cause. You had me there for a second.

I couldn't help it. You were asking for it. Good luck with finding people for your circle je...I mean prayer group.

oh thanks, I spit all over my monitor..

Shouldn't that be I SPAT all over my monitor?



Joe

 

[Netopia]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut
See, okay, this doesn't make any sense to me. What's the whole point of praying???? Here's the reasoning: 1) When you pray, you ask God to make things happen for you. 2) God has a plan for everyone. This means that God has already decided what will and will not happen for you. 3) Therefore, whether or not you ask God to make something happen will NOT change whether or not said something will happen -- reason being that God has already determined what will happen to you REGARDLESS of whether you pray. Therefore, praying is a big waste of time. Valsalva

I see you have a rather narrow view of praying. When you communicate with others in your life do you only ask them to give you things; is that the extent of your communication? I doubt it. Why then do you think that communication with the Lord is only for making requests?

Christianity in the purest sense is NOT a religion but the label for a personal relationship between an individual and God. Even if you don't believe in God, self-talk, meditation, Silva Mind Control.... they all recognize an internal conversation and focus of some kind. I would think that even an atheist could see that prayer is a good thing even if there were no God at the other end. True prayer gives a person not only the opportunity to ask for God's help in areas, but it also includes examining yourself and your motives, reviewing things you are thankful for, thinking over future plans.... If an atheist did all these things in meditation you'd probably call it a great thing... don't be so blinded by your hatred of theism that you throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Joe

 

[Netopia]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Vic Believe what you want about God or religion, that is what the Bible is. It has also been archeologically proven to be extremely historically accurate. But you will find that out soon enough when you read it. Most people who haven't read it think that it's all God and religion. It's not.

I think one of the greatest INCONSISTENCIES in the typical "Christian argument" is how much proof they require that evolution by natural selection occurs. They demand "hard evidence" that evolution exists -- which could only be obtained by watching evolution occur, albeit over millions of years (which is impossible to do ). Yet, they're willing to accept the most ridiculous/ludicrous explanations that support the bible only because they want to believe in it so badly. Yes, we have just proved the bible's accuracy using archaeology...gimme a fricking break. Here's a great proof for you: God is Love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Therefore, Ray Charles is God. Valsalva

Valsalva, I think you are confused. Christianities view toward evolution is that science should be consistant with itself. Christian's should live by faith and scientists should accept what can be proven by the scientific method.... including evolution. Please show me the reproducable results.

Joe

 

[Jzero]

*Waves to ValsalvaYourHeartOut and his little buddy QTArrhythmic

Welcome back to OT, fellas. Whatsamatter, not enough religious threads to crap on in HD, so you had to sniff some out here in OT?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Jzero
*Waves to ValsalvaYourHeartOut and his little buddy QTArrhythmic

Welcome back to OT, fellas. Whatsamatter, not enough religious threads to crap on in HD, so you had to sniff some out here in OT?

Evidently that is exactly why they are here. Crapping all over the place as usual. I believe they SEEK religious threads out. Typical internet morons.

 

[ILikeStuff]

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: ILikeStuff

I think what you are all overlooking in this is that prayer is NOT about asking for things, that is PART of prayer, but not the ultimate goal. Prayer is a means of communicating and building your relationship with God. Without communication, there is no effective relationship. Think along the lines of an significant other. If you want any kind of good, lasting, intimate relationship, you have to TALK to one another. It is similar with God. You talk to him through prayer and he talks to you through His Word and the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

Your ultimate goal is NOT to get what YOU want, but to align your desires with the will of God. That is when your life will be the most complete, have the most meaning, and be the most joyful

Edit: I turned on PMs

Wow, I love it. Probably the most perfect description of prayer I have ever herad.

I PM'ed you the link also.

The credit goed to God, he designed the whole system... and Hank Hannegraff, The Bible Answer Man. He has a great way of boiling things down to easily remembered phrases that still get the whole point across.

 

[Gravity]

I'm in. I believe.

Gravity

 

[jaydee]

Hey, can I get an invite?

 

[Metalloid]

Sorry bout that. PM'd you the link.

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Jzero
*Waves to ValsalvaYourHeartOut and his little buddy QTArrhythmic

Welcome back to OT, fellas. Whatsamatter, not enough religious threads to crap on in HD, so you had to sniff some out here in OT?

Evidently that is exactly why they are here. Crapping all over the place as usual. I believe they SEEK religious threads out. Typical internet morons.

I take offense to the hateful remarks made by JZero and Millenium. I remember you two. All the Christian people I know are loving, warm, and friendly -- that is, they epitomize the values of Jesus and the Bible. However, I am astonished by the spite and prejudice displayed by these two individuals. You two call yourself Christians, but in reality, you are hateful and bitter people and are far from Christ as far as I'm concerned. I think it's people like JZero and Millenium that sometimes give Christians a bad name in terms of being judgmental, holier-than-thou, hateful of people dissimilar, and sanctimonious. It's such a shame.

Valsalva

 

[QTArrhythmic]

Originally posted by: Netopia

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Vic Believe what you want about God or religion, that is what the Bible is. It has also been archeologically proven to be extremely historically accurate. But you will find that out soon enough when you read it. Most people who haven't read it think that it's all God and religion. It's not.

I think one of the greatest INCONSISTENCIES in the typical "Christian argument" is how much proof they require that evolution by natural selection occurs. They demand "hard evidence" that evolution exists -- which could only be obtained by watching evolution occur, albeit over millions of years (which is impossible to do ). Yet, they're willing to accept the most ridiculous/ludicrous explanations that support the bible only because they want to believe in it so badly. Yes, we have just proved the bible's accuracy using archaeology...gimme a fricking break. Here's a great proof for you: God is Love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Therefore, Ray Charles is God. Valsalva

Valsalva, I think you are confused. Christianities view toward evolution is that science should be consistant with itself. Christian's should live by faith and scientists should accept what can be proven by the scientific method.... including evolution. Please show me the reproducable results.

Joe

Here are some:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9072971&dopt=Abstract

 

[Wallydraigle]

I'm not religious, but I'm very interested in reading about what other people believe. Could you shoot me a link to your thread?

 

[Linux23]

I'm curious about this. How much dedication does this group require?

Can I get a Free Trial to this group to see if I can fully commit to it?

**okay, bad choice of wording.

 

[Jombo]

here's a good luck to the group bump ^^

i'm not much of a prayer person now, but i do have a request if you guys want to fill it sometime.

i got a ex co-worker over in iraq right now, securing the place. i'd like to ask for his safe campaign and safe return to his family.

yup, one of the few unsarcastic posts..

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: lirion
I'm not religious, but I'm very interested in reading about what other people believe. Could you shoot me a link to your thread?

Seeing as the thread is mostly prayer requests and praises, it won't give you much of an idea of what we as Christians believe. If you are interested, send me a PM, and I will try my best to explain my beliefs to you.