Starting up Christianity/Accountability Groups.

[Ender]

Why is this thread allowed to exist on this forum? You're promoting a religion over another by posting this thread. I can't go make a thread called "Starting up a White Group, no other races allowed" or I'd surely be suspended from posting. Why do moderators make exceptions for this?

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: RiprorinI believe that the Bible was originally written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. Clearly, there are nuances to different languages but I think that the message is consistent and diferences based on translation are fairly subtle.

You are correct regarding the original language of the bible. However, this is about 100% irrelevant, and my argument still stands: Whenever works are translated, the author's original meaning and intent is lost whenever corresponding phrases do not exist in the translated language. If you happen to know another language fluently, you'll find that there are many times when a particular idiom or metaphorical phrase just will not translate over to English, and any attempts to make the translation will make little sense to the English speaker. Furthermore, it is well-known that whenever a work is translated, the translator himself will insert his own bias, meaning, and interpretation, especially when he has a choice of English words to use for the translated text. The case can be no different for the bible, translated to English from Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. Therefore, it is possible to understand only the superficial, gross meaning of the bible if it is read in English.

I ask that you address these points specifically, rather than focus on irrelevant nuances of my argument. This is not Sunday School, and there are no points for handwaving and ignoring valid points just becuase you don't want to hear them.

For those that have not heard of Jesus, I would presume that God will judge them on the basis of what has been revealed to them.

For someone who presents himself as a biblical scholar, you seem to have ignored NUMEROUS bible passages that EXPLICITLY state that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, an individual must seek Jesus for salvation because by default, we are all born sinners. Works alone WITHOUT seeking Jesus is INSUFFICIENT. Your presumption is incorrect and grossly inconsistent with Christian belief. Nice try, bucko.

Valsalva

Hmmm, I don't think that I ever presented myself as a Bible scholar. Actually, I'm a chemist by training.

Regarding those who are ignorant of Christ, I said that I presume. I don't think that someone who has never heard of Jesus would be any more accountable that an infant or someone that is mentally deficient and incapable of understanding.

Actually, I think that there are probably very few people in the world that haven't heard the gospel. I think that this discussion is taking us out into the weeds.

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: MillenniumWhat I told you, Mr. Moron was that I am not a Christian and that you should stop crapping on this thread. Moron. Now Answer you pathetic POS.

Oh, okay. Well I'm not sure what you want me to "answer" because you failed to pose a question. Do you normally demand people to answer questions that you don't ask? Cuz if so, I think that would qualify YOU as a moron...although given your syntax and the sophistication of your language, combined with your difficulty finding appropriate words besides "pussy" and "POS," I'd say that your intellectual ability places you at approximately the 4th grade level...so I think YOU would be the moron as a matter of fact.

Edit- Secondly, what was there to argue about? You always crap on any thread about Christians...speaking of immature?

This is a forum open to the public and I have just as much right to express my views as the Christians do. There is nothing mature or immature about doing so...however, using playground potty-words such as the ones you are fond of DOES constitue immaturity.

I am not one, but still think you should respect the people in this thread. They don't want to debate religion with you so stop being a nosy self righteous bitch and butt out.

Let's see here...you referred to me as "pussy" as well as a "POS," and then you imply that I am a "bitch"...hmmm..I would have to say that...YES....YYYOOUUU are the one who should show some respect to people in this thread. Of all the posters I've seen so far, I think YOU have been the most disrespectful in terms of the foul language you choose to use. I think it's very funny how you're the one demanding that people are respectful when YOU are the one who has demonstrated the least amount of respect....you may not be Christian, but you're still a resounding hypocrite!!!!

Valsalva

 

[QTArrhythmic]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
[


Hmmm, I don't think that I ever presented myself as a Bible scholar. Actually, I'm a chemist by training.

Regarding those who are ignorant of Christ, I said that I presume. I don't think that someone who has never heard of Jesus would be any more accountable that an infant or someone that is mentally deficient and incapable of understanding.

Actually, I think that there are probably very few people in the world that haven't heard the gospel. I think that this discussion is taking us out into the weeds.

Did you get you training

here?

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Regarding those who are ignorant of Christ, I said that I presume. I don't think that someone who has never heard of Jesus would be any more accountable that an infant or someone that is mentally deficient and incapable of understanding.[/quote]

Regardless of what you "think," it is stated very clearly in the bible that if you do not seek Jesus for salvation, you go to hell. Quote me a passage that says "if you've never head of Jesus" or "if you're mentally retarded" then we'll make an exception.

Here's a few lines for you, bibleman:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." -- Mk 16:16
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already." -- Jn 3:18

EAT THAT. Notice there are no provisions for the mentally incapacitated or the residents of Zimbabwe who have never heard of Jesus N Pals.

Actually, I think that there are probably very few people in the world that haven't heard the gospel.

That is where you are ignorant and naive. Just because you live in a country that is predominantly Christian, you think that the rest of the world is the same? This is a textbook example of cognitive dissonance. You have two conflicting thoughts:
1) CLEARLY, half the world has never heard of Jesus
2) God is a just god, yet he'd send HALF the world to hell because they've never heard of Jesus and it's not really their fault.

No Christian wants to consider #2 because anybody with half a brain would be forced to conclude that God is UNJUST. How do you resolve this dissonance? Simple: take your other conflicting thought and convince yourself that it is false. In this case, you lie to yourself and hope/wish/pray that 99% of the world has heard of Jesus somehow...including the Inuit in Alaska, the Zulu tribe in Africa, and the neonates who die within minutes of their birth from serious congenital heart defects. That way, you don't have to deal with the thought that God is unjust, or worse, he's a fictional character written by some people with great imaginations.

Valsalva

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: Ender
Why is this thread allowed to exist on this forum? You're promoting a religion over another by posting this thread. I can't go make a thread called "Starting up a White Group, no other races allowed" or I'd surely be suspended from posting. Why do moderators make exceptions for this?

There is some difference between a white only group and a Christian only group. Colored people may have interest in joining a white only group, but non-Christians wouldn't want to be in a group for talking about thier experiences as a Christian, now would they?

If we started up a group where we only played BF1942, and someone couldn't join because they only wanted to play RTCW, should that thread be locked?

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: Metalloid15
Valsalva, please PM bluemax and speak to him, so that it doesn't take up thread space.

Thank you.

I notice that you did not ask bluemax and other "Christians" to take their comments to PM, only me and QT. I think that is terribly inconsistent of you to ask only people who disagree with aspects of Christianity to be silent, which only further exemplifies how close-minded certain Christians can be. Most of you talk about your "Christian walk" and describe how you've continually challenged your beliefs and in the process, further convinced yourself of the truth. In reality, you've only pressed your palms tightly to your dainty ears whenever anyone brings up points that clearly invalidate your system of beliefs and never gave these counterarguments an ounce of consideration. Regardless, Bluemax and others in this thread have made remarks that I find objectionable, and I am merely responding to them. Just because you started this thread does NOT give you the right to censor responses -- this is Anandtech, not Metalloidotech...

Valsalva

When I asked you to PM bluemax, I kind of assumed he would respond to you. You know, kill two birds with one stone. And I did ask everyone, Christian and non to not debate in this thread. Netopia is a perfect example. He is a Christian, I asked him to stop, and he did.

This is another fine example of how the average Christian lies to himself in order to be convinced that something he doesn't want to accept is untrue. In this case, Metalloid has clearly shown bias when he specifically singled out two posters whose opinions he agreed with (QT and me) and individually used two entire post to ask us to leave. But it's okay, because Metalloid convinced himself that he wasn't singling people out by making two ridiculous self-comforting statements:
1) that he had hoped bluemax would stop posting once I did, so he would only ask me to leave
(this is a stupid reason because a) it clearly shows bias when you only ask one of two people arguing to leave and b) bluemax was posting religious discussion before my most recent reply...and Metalloid never had a problem with it before since it was supporting his viewpoint)
2) he lies to himself about how he asked Netopia to leave too even though Netopia was pro-Christian as well.
(In reality, Metalloid never ASKED Netopia to leave. Netopia volunteered himself to not post "out of deference" to Metalloid.

In addition, he lost his temper and started flaming himself by calling QT "ignorant." I love how he asks people not to flame others and then turns around and does so himself -- this is another excellent example of how certain Christians are hypocrites and don't know it...and the above explanation demonstrates how some Christians lie to themselves in order to not have to believe that something that is clearly untrue but unpleasant.

Valsalva

What are you talking about? Did you not read my first post in this thread? I asked everyone, Christian and non, to not disucuss Christianity in this thread. If you only think that it only applies to you and QT, then I'm sorry that you missunderstood. What more do you want from me?

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: QTArrhythmic

Originally posted by: Riprorin
[


Hmmm, I don't think that I ever presented myself as a Bible scholar. Actually, I'm a chemist by training.

Regarding those who are ignorant of Christ, I said that I presume. I don't think that someone who has never heard of Jesus would be any more accountable that an infant or someone that is mentally deficient and incapable of understanding.

Actually, I think that there are probably very few people in the world that haven't heard the gospel. I think that this discussion is taking us out into the weeds.

Did you get you training

here?

Nope. I graduated from LeMoyne College in Syracuse, NY.

B.S. Magna Cum Laude in Chemistry, minor in Biology, 1982

LeMoyne College

 

[QTArrhythmic]

let's take this to another thread...so we don't kill this one.

Text

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Jzero
*Waves to ValsalvaYourHeartOut and his little buddy QTArrhythmic

Welcome back to OT, fellas. Whatsamatter, not enough religious threads to crap on in HD, so you had to sniff some out here in OT?

Evidently that is exactly why they are here. Crapping all over the place as usual. I believe they SEEK religious threads out. Typical internet morons.

Heheh you've never crapped in a thread have you, Millennium?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: yamahaXS

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Jzero
*Waves to ValsalvaYourHeartOut and his little buddy QTArrhythmic

Welcome back to OT, fellas. Whatsamatter, not enough religious threads to crap on in HD, so you had to sniff some out here in OT?

Evidently that is exactly why they are here. Crapping all over the place as usual. I believe they SEEK religious threads out. Typical internet morons.

Heheh you've never crapped in a thread have you, Millennium?

Numerous times, but never a SERIOUS thread.

 

[fizmeister]

So who's going to start the Muslim accountability group?

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: fizmeister
So who's going to start the Muslim accountability group?

I don't know, but since it doesn't pertain to this thread what's the point of asking that here?

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: QTArrhythmic
let's take this to another thread...so we don't kill this one.

Text

Although I don't really appreciate you mocking my thread, I do appreciate you starting up a thread so that mine may be peaceful again.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: MillenniumWhat I told you, Mr. Moron was that I am not a Christian and that you should stop crapping on this thread. Moron. Now Answer you pathetic POS.

Oh, okay. Well I'm not sure what you want me to "answer" because you failed to pose a question. Do you normally demand people to answer questions that you don't ask? Cuz if so, I think that would qualify YOU as a moron...although given your syntax and the sophistication of your language, combined with your difficulty finding appropriate words besides "pussy" and "POS," I'd say that your intellectual ability places you at approximately the 4th grade level...so I think YOU would be the moron as a matter of fact.

Edit- Secondly, what was there to argue about? You always crap on any thread about Christians...speaking of immature?

This is a forum open to the public and I have just as much right to express my views as the Christians do. There is nothing mature or immature about doing so...however, using playground potty-words such as the ones you are fond of DOES constitue immaturity.

I am not one, but still think you should respect the people in this thread. They don't want to debate religion with you so stop being a nosy self righteous bitch and butt out.

Let's see here...you referred to me as "pussy" as well as a "POS," and then you imply that I am a "bitch"...hmmm..I would have to say that...YES....YYYOOUUU are the one who should show some respect to people in this thread. Of all the posters I've seen so far, I think YOU have been the most disrespectful in terms of the foul language you choose to use. I think it's very funny how you're the one demanding that people are respectful when YOU are the one who has demonstrated the least amount of respect....you may not be Christian, but you're still a resounding hypocrite!!!!

Valhalla

Actually, it is the other way around. There is a hypocrisy, because these people never wanted you in their thread. In fact, Metalloid specifically requested that you stay out. You also said this was a public forum and you can say whatever you want, well it is actually a PRIVATE forum and your speech can be limited. You can attack my language and grammar, but obviously you have not read many of my posts. I normally don't try to act sophisticated and talk intelligently to someone who is obviously lacking a brain. IF you actually searched for my user name you would see my posts are 50/50 fun/serious posts and there are some very nice ones in there. As I said before, you SEEK these threads to CRAP on. It is not done accidentally, but rather for your benefit and fun. When someone specifically asks you to not derail their serious thread, does that not show immaturity to me? Look, I am not a a Christian, but I respect THOSE who are and have met more good people that are CHRISTIANS than those who are NOT. The basic fundamentals of the religion are GOOD, and the Bible also gives very good logical advice and moral edicts. Now, not all of those are agreeable to me or you, but they are something of a Hammurabi's code.Finally, the Bible was originally written in Greek and Aramaic, so I don't know where you got the Latin idea from.

Edit- BTW, if you are going to attack someone's grammar and language on the Internet please don't use "Cuz" and you didn't spell constitute properly. Looks like the infallible Valsalva made mistake!

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: MillenniumActually, it is the other way around. There is a hypocrisy, because these people never wanted you in their thread.

I'm not sure you understand the word "hypocrisy." Please look it up and check back with us. The reason you give "because these people never wanted you in their thread" does NOT constitute a "hypocrisy." Nice try, though. On the other hand, you had previously demanded that people on this forum show some respect, yet you turn around and call others "pussy," "bitch," and "POS." By asking for respect from people and turning around and showing disrespect, you have demonstrated YOURSELF to be a hypocrite. I'm not sure what there is to argue about.

You also said this was a public forum and you can say whatever you want, well it is actually a PRIVATE forum and your speech can be limited.

I said that "this forum is open to the public." It is and I'm not sure how you plan on challenging that fact. It's fairly self-evident that anyone in the public who types in www.anandtech.com can access this forum. On the other hand, you seem to imply that my speech can be limited...which is true, but not by Metalloid, who is merely the original poster.

I normally don't try to act sophisticated and talk intelligently to someone who is obviously lacking a brain. IF you actually searched for my user name you would see my posts are 50/50 fun/serious posts and there are some very nice ones in there.

Your simplistic syntax and your lack of sophistication suggest that you should not be referring to others as "moron" -- that's all I have to say.

When someone specifically asks you to not derail their serious thread, does that not show immaturity to me?

Whether or not I choose to post in a particular thread is completely unrelated to the concept of maturity. Perhaps it might be beneficial for you to look up the word "maturity" too. I am merely expressing an opinion on OFF TOPIC, whereas you have resorted to playground potty words such as "pussy" and "bitch." I think people who use such language in a public forum are clearly immature! Those are the types of phrases you hear middle school kids shouting back and forth on their swingset (read: immature) versus what you might hear adults say to each other in ordinary conversation.

Finally, the Bible was originally written in Greek and Aramaic, so I don't know where you got the Latin idea from.

I have already responded to this correction. However, you'll find that regardless of this change, there is no change in the validity or the logic in my original argument.

Edit- BTW, if you are going to attack someone's grammar and language on the Internet please don't use "Cuz" and you didn't spell constitute properly. Looks like the infallible Valsalva made mistake!

I find it quite pathetic that your only retort to my observation that your language lacks sophistication is that I intentionally used colloquialisms or made a typographic error. It's also ironic that in your futile effort to correct my "grammar and language," you utilized a glaring runon sentence. I think it's crystal clear who the moron really is here.

At any rate, I've been asked not to discuss aspects of religion in this thread anymore and therefore I will not. People who wish to engage in such conversation can find me over here. However, I will continue to respond to personal attacks from people like Millenium in this thread.

Valsalva

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: MillenniumActually, it is the other way around. There is a hypocrisy, because these people never wanted you in their thread.

I'm not sure you understand the word "hypocrisy." Please look it up and check back with us. The reason you give "because these people never wanted you in their thread" does NOT constitute a "hypocrisy." Nice try, though. On the other hand, you had previously demanded that people on this forum show some respect, yet you turn around and call others "pussy," "bitch," and "POS." By asking for respect from people and turning around and showing disrespect, you have demonstrated YOURSELF to be a hypocrite. I'm not sure what there is to argue about.

You also said this was a public forum and you can say whatever you want, well it is actually a PRIVATE forum and your speech can be limited.

I said that "this forum is open to the public." It is and I'm not sure how you plan on challenging that fact. It's fairly self-evident that anyone in the public who types in www.anandtech.com can access this forum. On the other hand, you seem to imply that my speech can be limited...which is true, but not by Metalloid, who is merely the original poster.

I normally don't try to act sophisticated and talk intelligently to someone who is obviously lacking a brain. IF you actually searched for my user name you would see my posts are 50/50 fun/serious posts and there are some very nice ones in there.

Your simplistic syntax and your lack of sophistication suggest that you should not be referring to others as "moron" -- that's all I have to say.

When someone specifically asks you to not derail their serious thread, does that not show immaturity to me?

Whether or not I choose to post in a particular thread is completely unrelated to the concept of maturity. Perhaps it might be beneficial for you to look up the word "maturity" too. I am merely expressing an opinion on OFF TOPIC, whereas you have resorted to playground potty words such as "pussy" and "bitch." I think people who use such language in a public forum are clearly immature! Those are the types of phrases you hear middle school kids shouting back and forth on their swingset (read: immature) versus what you might hear adults say to each other in ordinary conversation.

Finally, the Bible was originally written in Greek and Aramaic, so I don't know where you got the Latin idea from.

I have already responded to this correction. However, you'll find that regardless of this change, there is no change in the validity or the logic in my original argument.

Edit- BTW, if you are going to attack someone's grammar and language on the Internet please don't use "Cuz" and you didn't spell constitute properly. Looks like the infallible Valsalva made mistake!

I find it quite pathetic that your only retort to my observation that your language lacks sophistication is that I intentionally used colloquialisms or made a typographic error. It's also ironic that in your futile effort to correct my "grammar and language," you utilized a glaring runon sentence. I think it's crystal clear who the moron really is here.

At any rate, I've been asked not to discuss aspects of religion in this thread anymore and therefore I will not. People who wish to engage in such conversation can find me over here. However, I will continue to respond to personal attacks from people like Millenium in this thread.

Valsalva

Thanks for the laugh buddy. BTW, you several spelling mistakes in your post AGAIN!

 

[bluemax]

I think it goes without saying that users like Valsalva have gone out of their way to ruin any thread that mention Christianity at all. Why they don't pick on any other religious thread is beyond me. Debate is useless here, as most of my posts have merely been chopped up in reply and twisted to say something else. Pity many Bible readers, Christian and non do the same - take something and make it mean anything they want.

For Valsalva and others who seem to think it's unfair of God to destroy the unbelievers, there's two basic points to remember:

1) Jesus was the one that paid the price for your sins... not FOLLOWING (not merely "believing") Him means you're not accepting the erasure of the fate all humans rightfully deserve. That's right - DESERVE! If you don't follow your father's rules, you don't deserve to live under his roof, do you?

2) You are only held accountable for what you know. There's a couple places mentioned in the Bible that talk about this... you are only responsible for the light you have. If noone has ever, not even once, mentioned Jesus to you, the decision is only in God's hands. No, I can't say whether they WILL or WON'T come with Jesus at His second coming... I'm very thankful that decision is NOT in my hands. God is the ULTIMATE in fair, and just because you may whine, "Not fair!" just because you recieve an outcome you don't like, doesn't mean it's not fair.
Little Bobby who whines, "Not fair!" every time he's sent to his room because he broke some kind of house rule doesn't make the parent unfair. It would be MORE unfair to reward everyone, whether or not they deserve it.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: yamahaXS

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Jzero
*Waves to ValsalvaYourHeartOut and his little buddy QTArrhythmic

Welcome back to OT, fellas. Whatsamatter, not enough religious threads to crap on in HD, so you had to sniff some out here in OT?

Evidently that is exactly why they are here. Crapping all over the place as usual. I believe they SEEK religious threads out. Typical internet morons.

Heheh you've never crapped in a thread have you, Millennium?

Numerous times, but never a SERIOUS thread.

please spare us your rationalization.

 

[Metalloid]

Bump for an update.

 

[dohyun]

I'd be interested..


sign me up

 

[Metalloid]

Up