Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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R

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
DrMrLordX said:
They've been sued. They've won or settled most of the suits.
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Thats, well, surprising. One would think the fact that the game is still not even in beta(no personal knowledge here, just peeps i know who are still in tell me its still pre alpha or alpha at best) would be enough evidence on its own to prove the scam.
 
Printed Circuit Bro

Printed Circuit Bro

Senior member
Jan 21, 2020
411
84
61
Rifter said:
About the only thing i dont understand about this is how have they not been sued into oblivion by now? like obvious scam is obvious.
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The same reason it didn't happen when Chris Roberts first opened the game to crowd funding: people don't care about anything outside their immediate bubble. Anyone who knew anything about Chris Roberts' con artist past knew this was going to be yet another ride into oblivion atop his forked tongue.

That, and the disclaimer that you're not owed anything for any reason ever no matter how much you donate to the kickstarter. A fool and their money are soon departed.
 
R

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,019
216
106
Rifter said:
About the only thing i dont understand about this is how have they not been sued into oblivion by now? like obvious scam is obvious.
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its because they have millions and millions of spaceship dollars to pay lawyers with, so that they can keep the other millions and millions that they are spending on lambos and hookers
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
34,553
15,766
136
I look at it as early access, may work or it may not work or it may end up being different than expected.
Don’t gamble and get pissed when you lose.
 
rivethead

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Printed Circuit Bro said:
The same reason it didn't happen when Chris Roberts first opened the game to crowd funding: people don't care about anything outside their immediate bubble. Anyone who knew anything about Chris Roberts' con artist past knew this was going to be yet another ride into oblivion atop his forked tongue.

That, and the disclaimer that you're not owed anything for any reason ever no matter how much you donate to the kickstarter. A fool and their money are soon departed.
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Yes, the complete answer is: they have (supposedly) one of the best IP lawyers in the entertainment industry as a co-founder and co-chairman of the Board, and every dollar everyone gives to CIG is subject to a disclosure (that you have to acknowledge and agree to before the transaction goes through) that states the only right being transferred is the right to run CIG's computer code on your personal computer.

This is why I don't think you can call this a scam. This is also why they've done so well in court. They've been completely open (for those paying attention) about: you give us money and we will attempt to create video games that you can play. That's it.

Where they get slimey is their marketing that makes it seem like there are playable video games already and that you can "buy" ships and vehicles. The TOS which everyone agrees to specifically states that the rights to all digital assets are retained by CIG, thus you cannot "buy" or "own" digital spaceships. Yet CIG's marketing routinely has spaceship "sales" and uses the term "sale" and "buy".

Deceptive.

But that TOS is their shield.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
34,553
15,766
136
rivethead said:
Yep, that's really the only attitude that makes sense with this project.
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Thanks, I totally understand why some won’t do Early Access and that’s fine with me, if they expect a complete and perfect game they should wait for it to be finished and reviewed.
I can’t stand people whining about how some Early Access game did this or that or hasn’t been released and so on.
Don’t buy the damn thing if you want a finished game.
 
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rivethead

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Fanatical Meat said:
Haha
I will say pretty cool storm effect and really cool how the ship appeared to take damage by being thrown. Obviously not an intended game mechanic.
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Agree. There's potential there. There's always been potential. We're still waiting to see if it'll ever be more than just "potential"......
 
DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,620
10,829
136
Hope they had insurance on that ship. Also, so there IS such as thing as using too many lightweight materials in ship design!
 
R

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,019
216
106
DrMrLordX said:
Hope they had insurance on that ship. Also, so there IS such as thing as using too many lightweight materials in ship design!
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They had insurance, but the policy didnt cover shit coding, so they arent going to get any payout. but at least they know the insurance physics is working perfectly!
 
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shortylickens

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I sincerely hope the worlds gamers have learned a lesson about paying real money for in-development games. But I think the kind of person who spends 6000 bucks on an in-game ship is probably not learning anything.
Sunken Cost fallacy and all that.
 
KMFJD

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,137
42,112
136
shortylickens said:
I sincerely hope the worlds gamers have learned a lesson about paying real money for in-development games. But I think the kind of person who spends 6000 bucks on an in-game ship is probably not learning anything.
Sunken Cost fallacy and all that.
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i mean it's one thing to spend 30-40$ for an in development game but SC is at a whole different level in this nonsense when they offer up thousands of dollars of virtual crap that most likely will never see the light of day
 
Skel

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,214
659
136
I wonder how much they're taking in these days. I would normally think that it would have to be slowing down by now as you can only sell to so many people. The fact I don't see it on other gaming boards gives me the impression it's not as popular outside it's internal stuff. I could be completely wrong and they've tons of new user sign ups. When was the last time they offered a new ship jpeg? Unlike some people, I don't think they're on the verge of bankruptcy, but I would expect the funds aren't coming in like they used to.
 
rivethead

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Skel said:
I wonder how much they're taking in these days. I would normally think that it would have to be slowing down by now as you can only sell to so many people. The fact I don't see it on other gaming boards gives me the impression it's not as popular outside it's internal stuff. I could be completely wrong and they've tons of new user sign ups. When was the last time they offered a new ship jpeg? Unlike some people, I don't think they're on the verge of bankruptcy, but I would expect the funds aren't coming in like they used to.
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There are a lot of people tracking this. Based on available info, they're still bringing in over $100,000 per day on average. Revenue hasn't slowed down. They offer a new ship for "purchase" about every other month. I think they're up to over 100 different ships that are already in the code.

However, costs are likely increasing faster than revenue. 500+ employees, 5 studios around the world, increasing server costs, etc. This is why they've had to dip into the investor well twice now.

For about five years now, I've wondered what would run out first: backer patience or money?

I'm amazed to say there seems to be plenty of both right now.
 
DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,620
10,829
136
@rivethead

That's $36.5 million yearly. How can you not keep 500 employees employed with that? Somebody's got a bloated salary in there somewhere.
 
rivethead

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
DrMrLordX said:
@rivethead

That's $36.5 million yearly. How can you not keep 500 employees employed with that? Somebody's got a bloated salary in there somewhere.
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I don't work in software development so not really familiar with compensation levels in that industry. But if we assume an average salary of $80k and add payroll taxes, benefits, etc. getting to $100K of cost/year.....that's $50 million in salary costs alone. Not including facilities, hardware, etc.....

That's not to say there isn't bloat because I'm sure there is. The only thing we know about exec team's salaries is that they're comparable with those at other AAA development studios. CIG told us this late last year.

And this should irritate SC backers because in order to be paid like a AAA studio exec we would first expect the studio to actually produce a AAA game......
 
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