Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[aigomorla]

youre accusing a guy whose been here since 2006 with 10k posts of being derek smart? lmao. Goonfear™ is strong in you.

sigh...

The hard part about being smart around you is you fail to understand most of what's going on and your ego forces you to pawn your confusion off on other people so you don't have to take responsibility for it.

no the hard part about being smart is how both of u guys are treading on the gray line of the rules hence i cant give both of u guys an official warning for anything..

Yup. If only I dropped $1000 on a video game I could be smart too. :'(

And u were being so good! You just had to kill your good streak...
:\

Common both of u guys... i am getting tired at the sissy jabs both of u guys make in this thread... Walking on the gray is not good for me, I like to be the fun moderator, and not the evil moderator...

Moderator Aigo

 

[Fanatical Meat]

sigh...



no the hard part about being smart is how both of u guys are treading on the gray line of the rules hence i cant give both of u guys an official warning for anything..



And u were being so good! You just had to kill your good streak...
:\

Common both of u guys... i am getting tired at the sissy jabs both of u guys make in this thread... Walking on the gray is not good for me, I like to be the fun moderator, and not the evil moderator...

Moderator Aigo

Don't stress Aigo it ended quick nothing so bad happened.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Back to AT Ballers, who wants to meet up for some flying/combat training. Maybe some of our more experienced players could give some pointers. Do any Ballers have a teamspeak account we could all get into and fly around some night?

Anyone who wants to join the AT Organization go here:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/OLDSBAMENT

After you apply please post your Star Citizen name in this thread so we all know who you are.
Thanks!

 

[TechBoyJK]

Back to AT Ballers, who wants to meet up for some flying/combat training. Maybe some of our more experienced players could give some pointers. Do any Ballers have a teamspeak account we could all get into and fly around some night?

Anyone who wants to join the AT Organization go here:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/OLDSBAMENT

After you apply please post your Star Citizen name in this thread so we all know who you are.
Thanks!

Honestly, I took 2 months off because of shoulder surgery, and got out of the sling the same week 2.4 went live. I never dabbled in 2.4 ptu because I couldn't play, so I never had a chance to sort through all of the keybinding changes.

And to be frank, it's all screwed up. I tried importing my config from the 2.3 build, and only about half the keybindings stuck. But I was left with such a confused mess I decided to start over. I'm still figuring out problems. Lots of conflicts. So while I think I could be some help, I'm still fumbling trying to get things as playable as they were previously.

 

[rivethead]

Back to AT Ballers, who wants to meet up for some flying/combat training. Maybe some of our more experienced players could give some pointers. Do any Ballers have a teamspeak account we could all get into and fly around some night?

Anyone who wants to join the AT Organization go here:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/OLDSBAMENT

After you apply please post your Star Citizen name in this thread so we all know who you are.
Thanks!

I'll definitely be interested when the time comes. But I don't think the time has come.....the code is just too laggy and buggy for frustration-free team oriented play right now. And supposedly CIG are working on an in-game communication mechanic that should make an appearance....'soon (tm)'

 

[TechBoyJK]

I'll definitely be interested when the time comes. But I don't think the time has come.....the code is just too laggy and buggy for frustration-free team oriented play right now. And supposedly CIG are working on an in-game communication mechanic that should make an appearance....'soon (tm)'

They likely won't update their netcode until 2.7. They're working on it full steam ahead, but these kind of upgrades are being ringfenced out of the alpha until things are in better shape. They are currently using stock CryEngine netcode which is just passing all information to everyone and creating a ton of bloat on the network.

What's being implemented is a form of network detail occlusion culling.. basically anything that's not relevant to you is culled from the netcode. Right now if someone takes a nap in an Avenger way off in another location your client is still told about it.

 

[rivethead]

They likely won't update their netcode until 2.7. They're working on it full steam ahead, but these kind of upgrades are being ringfenced out of the alpha until things are in better shape. They are currently using stock CryEngine netcode which is just passing all information to everyone and creating a ton of bloat on the network.

What's being implemented is a form of network detail occlusion culling.. basically anything that's not relevant to you is culled from the netcode. Right now if someone takes a nap in an Avenger way off in another location your client is still told about it.

Oh yeah. I'm well aware of the netcode issues. They've been plaguing this project since day 1. As CIG attempts to do more, every attempt has been hampered by the netcode. It truly is the Achilles Heal of Star Citizen.

Personally I'm wondering if CIG's eyes aren't bigger than their stomach so to speak. What if they can't rewrite the netcode to do everything they need it to do? That will be a game changer (literally).

If you read between the lines, it appears there is an internal war going on at CIG between the Marketing side, which wants to continually show progress, add new shiny stuff, etc. and the developer side which needs a stable foundation built and tested first before anything else is added.

I mean in this week's 10ftC Chris literally told us that the current netcode had reached it's limits on what it's able to track and communicate (thus the noticeable downgrade in performance from 2.3 to 2.4). He then goes on to tell as about the things they'll be adding in 2.5 (pirate base, more shops, etc.). Well if you're at your limit, you can't add more stuff. It just doesn't compute.

I'm hopeful that they will solve this issue eventually. But I also won't be surprised if it takes way longer than expected to do so and it ends up limiting or preventing expected game features.

Which is why I'm thankful that I'm really here for Squadron 42 anyway....

 

[Stringjam]

The way I understand it, their network engineers are simply done trying to juggle both the current CryNetwork and their revision, so now it's on to all-hands-on-deck for the new version. We'll be kind of stuck with the old stuff until 2.7.

That's fine with me, really - if they can pull it off by 2.7.

2.7 is dropping the stuff that I'm REALLY interested in anyway. I'll probably just spend my current efforts dropping into BR and stay out of the PU, where the netcode issue is the most troublesome.

That...and maybe playing No Man's Sky and a couple of other games along the way.


Also - I agree with rivethead's thoughts. EVERYTHING in the PU right now is riding on the new netcode. If they don't execute, it's going to bring everything planned in 2.7 to a halt - and pretty much the PU in general.

I'm also hyper stoked about SQ42, but I'll be bummed if the PU gets shelved too long. I want to get my explore on, and SQ42 is going to be mostly combat.

 

[Sabrewings]

2.7 is dropping the stuff that I'm REALLY interested in anyway. I'll probably just spend my current efforts dropping into BR and stay out of the PU, where the netcode issue is the most troublesome.

That...and maybe playing No Man's Sky and a couple of other games along the way.

That's essentially why I'm keeping a distance right now. The PU was fun for a while, but I'm eager for some shock and awe after waiting several months. I'm going to be wrapping up my expedition in Elite before too long, and then NMS will be out to hold my attention for quite a while yet.

As for their net code, I'm not too worried. We've been hearing about the complete rewrite for a while so it should be done soon. The information they've been dropping along the way shows they've had a plan for implementation that will work, they just have to put fingers to keyboards and de-bug the result. It's true that everything hinges on it, and they know that. 64-bit was the first large hurdle, and the network code is the second. From there on out it's mostly content creation more than new tech (procedural generation is a bit of both categories).

 

[TechBoyJK]

There's nothing crazy to do with the netcode. They just need to integrate a culling method to remove anything that's not necessary. This isn't new tech, they just need to integrate the logic into their netcode. Other dev's have had this kind of tech in their netcode for years. Of course WoW already does it, and likely just about any other MMO in existence.

Right now.. I can see how using the generic CryTek netcode is actually allowing them to study what is and isn't needed. And I agree with the argument that it's not worth trying to modify the CryTek netcode just to make things nice for the PU when they have an entirely new batch of netcode in the oven. If I know I'm going to rip out my bathroom in 3 months, I'll be hard pressed to spend a weekend putting in a new toilet knowing it's going to be ripped out in a few weeks. Until then, people can just deal with the bathroom as it is.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I've been a backer for this game since it all started but I have not attempted to play it since it became available. Is it at a point now where we can do more than fly around a small area shooting enemy ships as they come in?

I might have to check this out. I'm sure it has changed a lot since last I played it.

 

[TechBoyJK]

I've been a backer for this game since it all started but I have not attempted to play it since it became available. Is it at a point now where we can do more than fly around a small area shooting enemy ships as they come in?

I might have to check this out. I'm sure it has changed a lot since last I played it.

Right now, it's likely that a majority of their work has not been scene because it is dependent major changes to the engine, and trying to integrate it too soon would cause bugs related to 'old engine code' that is being abandoned. It would create additional work.

That said, many of the major changes are nearing completion. The rollout already began with 2.4, which is why it took so long to get pushed out.

It's like having all the stuff you need for an awesome new bathroom sitting in the garage while you wait for the plumber to get stuff done. Sure, you could install the bathroom in 3 days, but if you do it before the plumber is even done, you'll likely end up having to rip it back out. So in the garage the bathroom stuff waits. But one the plumber is done with his work, the bathroom will be knocked out in a weekend.

 

[rivethead]

There's nothing crazy to do with the netcode. They just need to integrate a culling method to remove anything that's not necessary. This isn't new tech, they just need to integrate the logic into their netcode.

Admittedly, this is beyond the scope of my understanding, but are you sure this isn't new tech?

My understanding is: the instancing system they want (one master server...seemless transition from instance to instance) the procedural generation they want (procedurally generated planets down to the tiny pebble as well as procedurally generated cities. etc), the subsumption AI tech.....that stuff has never been done before.

In this week's 10ftC, Chris literally says "something you've never seen before in any other game" (I believe this was in regards to PG).

I get the feeling they're trying to do a lot that's never been done before. I'm probably wrong, but I would think that means a new level of net code that's never been done before.

 

[Stringjam]

In this week's 10ftC, Chris literally says "something you've never seen before in any other game" (I believe this was in regards to PG).

That's what I took away from it. I don't know what they're seeing internally, but the references are of PG down to a detail level that is above current typical implementations.

 

[Stringjam]

I've been a backer for this game since it all started but I have not attempted to play it since it became available. Is it at a point now where we can do more than fly around a small area shooting enemy ships as they come in?

I might have to check this out. I'm sure it has changed a lot since last I played it.

Best thing for you to do is watch some of the 2.3-2.4 stuff. Yes, it has changed significantly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlNldjFmjvw

 

[TechBoyJK]

Admittedly, this is beyond the scope of my understanding, but are you sure this isn't new tech?

My understanding is: the instancing system they want (one master server...seemless transition from instance to instance) the procedural generation they want (procedurally generated planets down to the tiny pebble as well as procedurally generated cities. etc), the subsumption AI tech.....that stuff has never been done before.

In this week's 10ftC, Chris literally says "something you've never seen before in any other game" (I believe this was in regards to PG).

I get the feeling they're trying to do a lot that's never been done before. I'm probably wrong, but I would think that means a new level of net code that's never been done before.

I'm speaking in regards to the netCode and I'm just speaking to the concept of minimizing the amount of relevant data being sent. Every MMO out here has to do it. I think just about any game using CryEngine has had to modify the netcode to suit their needs.

What will be new, as is the reason why they're having to do it, will be CIG's star citizen specific iteration of their netcode. That will be new and it will certainly be different than other netcode because of some of their issues. Much in the same way that a Tesla is still 'just a car' and cars have been being built for 100+ years. But the car itself is filled with new tech not seen before in other vehicles.

Does that make sense? I just wanted to make sure my original comment was understood.

I believe the PG in particular will absolutely be new tech. Only a few other companies have done anything similar and still hold that intellectual property closely. But, the salesman in Chris Roberts seems to suggest it will have a Crysis 3 level of fidelity on the ground, which requires ALOT of detail to be generated. Crysis 3 levels were hardly procedurally generated. Every little detail was carefully placed by humans. Randomly generating that level of detail and making it work to me is what will be fascinating. If I can land on a planet with that level of fidelity and explore every inch of it, that would be downright amazing.

 

[rivethead]

Yup. TechBoyJK - your explanation makes sense to me. And I completely agree on the PG excitement. This gameplay element/tech....if they can pull it off.....will make exploration the #1 activity in SC. And I'm ok with that!

 

[Stringjam]

This gameplay element/tech....if they can pull it off.....will make exploration the #1 activity in SC. And I'm ok with that!

+42. The hope of Captain Picard'ing a Carrack is at the absolute top of my SC wish list. This depends heavily on their ability to innovate on the PG front. As of right now, the only game that exists that features a comprehensive approach to PG seems to be NMS (a living / breathing environment.....not just a desolate rock sphere).

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I've been a backer for this game since it all started but I have not attempted to play it since it became available. Is it at a point now where we can do more than fly around a small area shooting enemy ships as they come in?

I might have to check this out. I'm sure it has changed a lot since last I played it.

Welcome join the AT Organization here:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/OLDSBAMENT
We're a casual Org and you can belong to multiple Orgs in game. We currently have 31 members and a broad spectrum of ships. All anandtech members are welcome no matter what your pledged ship is.
If you apply please post your Star Citizen name in this thread.

 

[rivethead]

+42. The hope of Captain Picard'ing a Carrack is at the absolute top of my SC wish list. This depends heavily on their ability to innovate on the PG front. As of right now, the only game that exists that features a comprehensive approach to PG seems to be NMS (a living / breathing environment.....not just a desolate rock sphere).

Oh yeah. I'm still coming to grips with map sizes for Star Citizen. If the Stanton system is going to be a Billion km across and there are 100 systems at game launch....that's a ton of space for exploring.....even if it is mostly empty. But with PG you can throw in a random planetoid or asteroid or moon and give it sufficient detail to make it worth exploring (and discovering mineral deposits or alien artifacts or, if you're unlucky, a Vanduul outpost).

 

[TechBoyJK]

Oh yeah. I'm still coming to grips with map sizes for Star Citizen. If the Stanton system is going to be a Billion km across and there are 100 systems at game launch....that's a ton of space for exploring.....even if it is mostly empty. But with PG you can throw in a random planetoid or asteroid or moon and give it sufficient detail to make it worth exploring (and discovering mineral deposits or alien artifacts or, if you're unlucky, a Vanduul outpost).

If the current PU was populated with more AI, and we could land on Yela, etc. it would already feel huge, imho. Just having Yela to run around on in FPS could create an FPS world larger than FO4!! Honestly, some of the asteroids around yela are pretty huge and you could have 10+ hours worth of missions on one. Just looking for stuff, having caves with aliens, etc.

A fully fleshed out Star Citizen game with 100 system could take years to play through. If this is going to be a game that I play for 10+ years like WOW then I can wait for them to get it right. Hardware is only getting better and cheaper as time goes on.

 

[TechBoyJK]

In the latest AtV [2.37], Austin Studio reported that they're working on another port base like Olisar to add to the PTU. Not the pirate base afaik. He mentioned they're going to spread the shop items around so you can't get everything on Olisar and vice versa.

 

[rivethead]

In the latest AtV [2.37], Austin Studio reported that they're working on another port base like Olisar to add to the PTU. Not the pirate base afaik. He mentioned they're going to spread the shop items around so you can't get everything on Olisar and vice versa.

Actually I think it is the pirate base: GrimHex. They're going to put ballistic weapons at GrimHex and energy weapons at Port Olisar which will hopefully encourage travel between the two (and that travel will be outside the armistice zone so you know what that means).

I'm still curious how they're going to squeeze in more content with the current net code issues.....but maybe that's what 2.4.1 is for (some minor optimization to free up capacity).

Personally I'm more excited about progress in ship components and the piping system. Hopefully shields will be available and the entire interaction between power plants, cooler, weapons, shields, scanners, etc. will start to get fleshed out.

 

[rivethead]

You guys probably already know this, but the hangars available to a Citizen appear to be based upon the collective value of the ships that Citizen owns.

Friday evening, I owed a Aurora MR, Gladius, and Avenger Titan and had access to a Self-land and Aeroview hangar.

I activated my CCU from an Avenger Titan ($50 ship) to a Reliant Kore (now a $65 ship....it was $50 when I purchased the CCU for $0) and I now have access to ALL of the hangars.

Still think the Aeroview is my favorite.....

 

[Stringjam]

You guys probably already know this, but the hangars available to a Citizen appear to be based upon the collective value of the ships that Citizen owns.

Friday evening, I owed a Aurora MR, Gladius, and Avenger Titan and had access to a Self-land and Aeroview hangar.

I activated my CCU from an Avenger Titan ($50 ship) to a Reliant Kore (now a $65 ship....it was $50 when I purchased the CCU for $0) and I now have access to ALL of the hangars.

Still think the Aeroview is my favorite.....

I haven't figured out my favorite yet. I like Selfland and Industrial because they both have a bit of a rusty / Metro 2033 kind of vibe.

I really like R&Y though, because of the contemporary style.