Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

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Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,100
467
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Not to mention they seem to be getting stuff out much more quickly, which indicates (as Tech noted), their production pipeline is becoming much more efficient.

I don't think it has as much with the production pipeline becoming more efficient so much as it is that all the backend engine support is mostly in place now. Previously every time they added something new they had to put all the code in the engine to support that functionality, but now that they have built all that functionality it is now all being reused in the newer assets, drastically reducing the time to create the new asset.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
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I don't think it has as much with the production pipeline becoming more efficient so much as it is that all the backend engine support is mostly in place now. Previously every time they added something new they had to put all the code in the engine to support that functionality, but now that they have built all that functionality it is now all being reused in the newer assets, drastically reducing the time to create the new asset.

Yea, a lot of people don't realize or appreciate how much time was burned on non-graphical, non-asset based engineering work to the engine that needed to be done. If they jumped into an engine that was ready to go they'd be far far ahead of where they are now.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
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I think it's pretty exciting that the Argo is going straight to flyable in 2.5 (along with the Reliant). I think they may surprise us with flyable dragonflys too in 2.5

And ship components.

I just hope the net code can handle all this new stuff (Grim Hex too).
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
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I think it's pretty exciting that the Argo is going straight to flyable in 2.5 (along with the Reliant). I think they may surprise us with flyable dragonflys too in 2.5

And ship components.

I just hope the net code can handle all this new stuff (Grim Hex too).


With the Argo coming out in 2.5, I wonder if any cargo stuff is going to make an appearance?
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
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With the Argo coming out in 2.5, I wonder if any cargo stuff is going to make an appearance?

I wish.

But I don't think CIG can add any new game mechanics to the game until the netcode overhaul is done. They say that will come with 2.7. So I think 2.5 and 2.6 are just going to give us new assets like ships and locations. And maybe some refinement of current mechanics.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
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I this game done yet?

2 games. SQ42 is slated for q4 2016 or q1 2017.

Star Citizen a year later.

A lot of people cry about the game taking forever, but reality is they didn't get things spinning like a AAA studio until about a year ago, and similarly ambitious games (ie GTA5, ESO) have taken 5-7 years. So even if Star Citizen isn't done until 2019, it's still a reasonable time line for game of this size.
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
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I just skimmed it but it appears to be simple buyers remorse. He spent more than what he wanted in his excitement. Honestly its kind of cool they'll offer refunds. What other publisher allows refunds?

Yea, that's exactly what I called it. Buyer's remorse.

However, that's not the case he made which is obviously because 'remorse' 2 years after pledging isn't really a valid reason to start giving everyone their money back and potentially pull the carpet out from under the project.

He claims it's because of the new ToS.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Yea, that's exactly what I called it. Buyer's remorse.

However, that's not the case he made which is obviously because 'remorse' 2 years after pledging isn't really a valid reason to start giving everyone their money back and potentially pull the carpet out from under the project.

He claims it's because of the new ToS.

Sure....the tos....
I've seen this many times in my career. Someone who is usually the classic loaner, loser, type that has no friends or has a dysfunctional relationship. Buys a ton of high end stuff, a real lot. They're very excited because talking with them they'll say a bunch of things how their life will be better or improved, they're excited everything a person in sales feels good about. Days go by then they return it because its not what they wanted or something obscure is wrong with it. The problem is they are trying to purchase happiness with something that is only a part of being happy. I've seen this scenario play out many times.
 

linthat22

Senior member
Dec 2, 2011
207
2
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Absolute trainwreck of a discussion about user 'streetroller' who practically extorted a $3,000 refund out of CIG for ships he bought in 2014.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4so71t/streetroller_gets_a_3000_refund_from_cig/

It's not extortion when the guy was trying to get CIG to honor the TOS that he agreed to, not the new version they reneged their initial promise to backers on.

I'm a backer and tried getting my refund back. Derek Smart was/is right about this game.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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It's not extortion when the guy was trying to get CIG to honor the TOS that he agreed to, not the new version they reneged their initial promise to backers on.

I'm a backer and tried getting my refund back. Derek Smart was/is right about this game.

Haha try that on your wireless provider or broadband provider or bank or finance company or retirement savings plan or apple for your smart phone or google or your employer

I think its kind of cool they even offer refunds. I'd also bet their original TOS states no refunds and release date is subject to change plus a bunch of other stuff that's semi vague.
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
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It's not extortion when the guy was trying to get CIG to honor the TOS that he agreed to, not the new version they reneged their initial promise to backers on.

I'm a backer and tried getting my refund back. Derek Smart was/is right about this game.

Uh no.

The entire reason they changed the ToS was to prevent the kind of refund abuse that is happening here.

If anything, his refund extortion makes the case clear as to why CIG needed to update their ToS.

You pledged money. Try dropping a quarter into a Red Cross donation box then coming back a year later and asking for it back.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
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You pledged money. Try dropping a quarter into a Red Cross donation box then coming back a year later and asking for it back.
That's a terrible example. The Red Cross

A) Is a donation, not a pre-order

B) Actually gets stuff done like they say they will
 
Feb 4, 2009
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That's a terrible example. The Red Cross

A) Is a donation, not a pre-order

B) Actually gets stuff done like they say they will

When I managed a wireless store there would be a donate $20 to the special olympics and get xx free. Every single year I'd have some cheap f'er return his crap and want the $20 back.
Sorry for the mini rant, still pisses me off.
Honestly the game is pretty playable, I don't get all the scandal around SC other than the money they've made and the money some have put into the game. Yeah the game appears to be running late but honestly how many of the complainers bought in after it was known the games timeline has changed.
I understand the concerns if EA/kick starter but come on. Either ask for a refund or sell your account. I'd imagine LTI accounts can be easily sold.
I've even stated in this very thread that spending thousands of dollars on a game is just too decadent for me.
Again try requesting a refund from any publisher for a preorder or any game. Good luck, only place I can think of it working is valve or maybe EA.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
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Honestly the game is pretty playable, I don't get all the scandal around SC
I won't go on and on, but at this point Squadron 42 is years late with no reliable sign that it will actually be done any time soon. It was supposed to be finished in November of 2014; at best we're going to get the first part of it in 2017, with the last part goodness knows when. That's enough to set many people off.
Again try requesting a refund from any publisher for a preorder or any game. Good luck, only place I can think of it working is valve or maybe EA.
GameStop, Valve, and EA will all refund pre-orders, AFAIK. That's the major stores right there.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,520
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On Steam you can ask for a refund only if you played the game for less than 2 hours. And only in the first 14 days since the purchase.

For pre-orders:

Pre-Order Refunds

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Can I refund my pre-order?

You may refund your pre-order any time prior to the release of the game.

If the pre-order title was purchased more than 3 months ago, you may not be able to refund back to your original payment method. However, you may still request a credit to your Steam wallet.

For more information on how to submit a refund request, click here.

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Can I still refund my pre-order after the game comes out?

Preordered games that have been released are still eligible for a refund, as long as the refund request is submitted within two weeks of the game’s release, and the game has been played for less than two hours.

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I gifted a pre-order to my friend. Is this gift eligible for a refund?

Even if the gift has been redeemed, you may still request a refund for this pre-order. To request a refund on a Steam gift, we will need the gift recipient to first initiate the refund and approve the removal of this purchase from their account.

The same guidelines apply: a refund may be issued for any pre-ordered gift prior to the game’s release or within fourteen days of the game’s release and with under two hours of playtime by the gift recipient.

If your preorder came with an extra giftable copy of the game, you will need to have the account that redeemed the extra copy approve the refund as well. Please refer to the Purchasing and Refunding Gifts article for further information.

If the gift or the extra copy has not been redeemed, you may request a refund for your preordered title at any time.

EA refund rules:

Send us refund requests within the following timeframes

  • Within 24 hours after you first launch the game*
  • Within 7 days from your date of purchase
  • Within 7 days from the game’s release date if you pre-ordered

*If you purchase a new EA game within the first 30 days of its release date and can’t play it due to technical reasons within EA’s control, you can request a refund within 72 hours after you first launch the game instead of 24.
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
I won't go on and on, but at this point Squadron 42 is years late with no reliable sign that it will actually be done any time soon. It was supposed to be finished in November of 2014; at best we're going to get the first part of it in 2017, with the last part goodness knows when.

That's bad information.

Many people are still going on about the dates pitched during the original kickstarter when the scope of the game project was much smaller because they had no idea they'd be sitting on $120M.

Things changed. They engaged the community, and the timeline is now different. "It" that which should be finished by now is a completely different monster.

You say it should have been done by November 2014. Yet, they didn't even get their Frankfurt Studio,which is a key part of SQ42's development, up and running until July 2015. Should we look at how long it took Rockstar to make GTA5? How long Bethesda took on ESO? Development for a AAA game can easily take 5 years. CIG didn't really have any AAA quality development happening until 2014. Looking past the original pitch and looking at the current plan, they have until late 2018 before they're 'late'.. that is if you want to apply any reasonable standards.

And if you're actually following development, you'd see plenty of progress on many fronts. Gauging by the last year alone in the PTU, they're making huge strides. And again, by any reasonable standard, things are moving along quite nicely now.
 

linthat22

Senior member
Dec 2, 2011
207
2
76
That's bad information.

Many people are still going on about the dates pitched during the original kickstarter when the scope of the game project was much smaller because they had no idea they'd be sitting on $120M.

Things changed. They engaged the community, and the timeline is now different. "It" that which should be finished by now is a completely different monster.

You say it should have been done by November 2014. Yet, they didn't even get their Frankfurt Studio,which is a key part of SQ42's development, up and running until July 2015. Should we look at how long it took Rockstar to make GTA5? How long Bethesda took on ESO? Development for a AAA game can easily take 5 years. CIG didn't really have any AAA quality development happening until 2014. Looking past the original pitch and looking at the current plan, they have until late 2018 before they're 'late'.. that is if you want to apply any reasonable standards.

And if you're actually following development, you'd see plenty of progress on many fronts. Gauging by the last year alone in the PTU, they're making huge strides. And again, by any reasonable standard, things are moving along quite nicely now.

You are also missing out on the part where Chris Roberts himself said that what they'll deliver as the "de-facto release" will be a minimum viable product. That's without all the stretch goals. So blaming stretch goals and scope size is moot once he made that statement.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
You are also missing out on the part where Chris Roberts himself said that what they'll deliver as the "de-facto release" will be a minimum viable product. That's without all the stretch goals. So blaming stretch goals and scope size is moot once he made that statement.

I'm not missing out on that. Chris never said the MVP will be released according to the original kickstarter dates. He said they would release the MVP, and it was for the sake of putting something in the hands of the backers, just like they do with allowing use of Arena Commander and the PU.

Everything.. EVERYTHING got pushed back once they got the full budget. Anybody that's involved with the community and gets newsletters knows this.

The biggest issue was the giant code rewrite that took place once they acquired the source for CryEngine. That was necessary, and it's already bearing fruit. The problem is most people aren't game devs, and they don't comprehend the dilemma that CIG faced with using an 'off the shelf engine' versus using something customized for their needs. It was serious enough that CIG wisely abandoned much of their work pre-2014 to start building their new 'star engine'. They had to start over in many regards, and this is why it's a fallacy for people to say it should be done by now because they've been working on it since 2012. No, that project was mostly scrapped and they started fresh with the updated 64bit engine.

People are making themselves delusional by clinging onto the original plan and dates. And if you wanted a refund, you should have asked for one 2 years when things changed.
 
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