Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[Silverforce11]

My gripes with SC is the feature creep. Backers wanted a mix of Wing Commander, Privateer and Freelancer, with fancy graphics.

If all we had was a rich dynamic universe like Eve Online (including functional epic-scale PvP), with 3d cockpit flight, that would have still be one of the best games in the genre.

I fear they have bitten much more than they (& CryEngine) can chew. The ridiculous prices for virtual items & ships is a bad sign, because it tells me production costs have skyrocketed and they need to inflate income to keep up. In the end, if income cannot keep up, the game will have to be scaled down greatly or released as a broken mess of modules and instances which defeats the MMO aspect.

Edit: I just looked back at the OP and read the articles in 2012. If he had kept the vision, a more complete Freelancer with more dynamism and updated graphics, it would have been released already and it would have been freaken awesome.

 

[Sabrewings]

If all we had was a rich dynamic universe like Eve Online (including functional epic-scale PvP), with 3d cockpit flight, that would have still be one of the best games in the genre.

It could've, but that wasn't exactly what CR had in mind with the kind of money it brought in. He could've done that off the $5 million budget plus his private investors, but shouldn't we get something more for $90 million?

I fear they have bitten much more than they (& CryEngine) can chew.

This keeps coming up, but so far they're doing it. This is the first game I've seen to have local physics within a ship with its own gridded space independent of the surrounding area. That alone is a huge feat. Plus, the work they've done converting CryEngine to 64-bit location addressing is huge to achieve their goals. They hired former CryTek devs that helped create the engine in the first place. I think they know what it can do, or what they can modify it to do. They're even rewriting it themselves for DX12 instead of using something CryTek puts out. Then their dynamic zoning model is simply awesome to scale with traffic yet keep people together on one instance as much as possible. I don't doubt their capabilities at all.

The ridiculous prices for virtual items & ships is a bad sign, because it tells me production costs have skyrocketed and they need to inflate income to keep up. In the end, if income cannot keep up, the game will have to be scaled down greatly or released as a broken mess of modules and instances which defeats the MMO aspect.

What ridiculous prices? Talking about the Endeavour, which is one of the largest ships in the game? Of course it should have a gigantic price, otherwise the game would be flooded with them. If a Connie is $275, then the Endeavour absolutely should be as expensive as it is.

No one is forced to buy these anyway. They do it because they want to. If CIG was just doing a money grab, all of the ships would be for sale. Most of the desirable ones aren't because of exclusivity and to simply not saturate with them. They could make tons of money opening up the Retaliator for sale again, or the Carrack. Instead they just go back to focusing on development and put a ship here or there up for sale for a week.

 

[JSt0rm]

My gripes with SC is the feature creep. Backers wanted a mix of Wing Commander, Privateer and Freelancer, with fancy graphics.

If all we had was a rich dynamic universe like Eve Online (including functional epic-scale PvP), with 3d cockpit flight, that would have still be one of the best games in the genre.

I fear they have bitten much more than they (& CryEngine) can chew. The ridiculous prices for virtual items & ships is a bad sign, because it tells me production costs have skyrocketed and they need to inflate income to keep up. In the end, if income cannot keep up, the game will have to be scaled down greatly or released as a broken mess of modules and instances which defeats the MMO aspect.

Edit: I just looked back at the OP and read the articles in 2012. If he had kept the vision, a more complete Freelancer with more dynamism and updated graphics, it would have been released already and it would have been freaken awesome.

very true. Check out the new ship this week. $900 and has virtual space farming? Give us the game thats been delayed for years not adding a new feature like virtual space farming.

 

[Silverforce11]

See, if they went with the KS funds they could have offered their vision. They wouldn't have needed to sell virtual items, ships, alpha access at ridiculous prices to be where they are now, $90M in gamer's funds, with the game still very far in sight due to feature creep.

When I saw the feature release about multi-layered ship armor with full physics simulation, I saw that as a major trouble sign, of someone who has lost the plot on gameplay. When you are frantically dog-fighting in space, the last thing you care about is how realistic the armor deforms to a weapon impact.

You know why? We all had a ton of fun shooting at 2D sprites in the older spacesims and in low-poly Privateer Remake user mods.

Fidelity is great, but at what cost? Instanced to 8v8 with lag? Even their original aim at 60-100 people in an instance is already low for an MMO.

At this point, I think we'll be enjoying Eve Valkyrie long before SC is released. Look at what that game is trying to achieve, "just" a multiplayer dog-fight simulator with VR support, then see how long its been in development. Now compare that to the scope of SC. Way too big.

This will be worse than 3000AD and that was an epic failure.

 

[JSt0rm]

Thats why DS knows this whole thing will collapse. Because he tried it and it failed. The difference is you have sperg lords getting divorces over how much money they dump into sc.

 

[Sabrewings]

See, if they went with the KS funds they could have offered their vision. They wouldn't have needed to sell virtual items, ships, alpha access at ridiculous prices to be where they are now, $90M in gamer's funds, with the game still very far in sight due to feature creep.

When I saw the feature release about multi-layered ship armor with full physics simulation, I saw that as a major trouble sign, of someone who has lost the plot on gameplay. When you are frantically dog-fighting in space, the last thing you care about is how realistic the armor deforms to a weapon impact.

You know why? We all had a ton of fun shooting at 2D sprites in the older spacesims and in low-poly Privateer Remake user mods.

Fidelity is great, but at what cost? Instanced to 8v8 with lag? Even their original aim at 60-100 people in an instance is already low for an MMO.

At this point, I think we'll be enjoying Eve Valkyrie long before SC is released. Look at what that game is trying to achieve, "just" a multiplayer dog-fight simulator with VR support, then see how long its been in development. Now compare that to the scope of SC. Way too big.

This will be worse than 3000AD and that was an epic failure.

Lol, ok pal. I'll be enjoying the epic failure when it comes out. Eve Valkyrie is a smaller game than what CIG has been doing on the side, which is SQ42. It's cool that it's an Oculus launch game and all, but it's probably not going to have the AAA effort that CIG is doing for simply the single player side of their linked games. And 8v8? Way to be obtuse. Current net coding is allowing for 50, but they're far from optimized. Plus, the zoning eases the issue on the server side and allows dynamic reallocation of resources. Even in its current state, unless you have more than 50 people within sight of each other, no one will even notice any instancing because that sector of space will be only one instance. The instancing (if needed) is supposed to take into account orgs and simply contacts on your contact list to group you appropriately if necessary.

SC is not "very far in sight." Baby PU is around the corner (late October according to CR), FPS module will probably be out before that, Social Module 2.0, and SQ42. Baby PU is the last big development step. After that, it's just content building, infrastructure refinement, and then final release. Best guesses are Q1 2017. But, if it was 2018, I don't care. I want the entire game, his entire vision. If it takes time, it takes time. SQ42 will be more than enough attention to the genre for a while. Plus Eve Valkyrie, and then for a change of pace there's NMS or E.

Why give up on a dream that could be so awesome? Based off what they've been showing lately, we're easily over the halfway point.

Thats why DS knows this whole thing will collapse. Because he tried it and it failed. The difference is you have sperg lords getting divorces over how much money they dump into sc.

Hmm, when did DS try it with such a large budget, development team, or more critically, successful game development experience?

That guy coding is like a monkey screwing a door knob.

 

[Silverforce11]

I heard if you chant Derek Smart a few times, he appears on any gaming forum.

 

[Sabrewings]

I heard if you chant Derek Smart a few times, he appears on any gaming forum.

Dehr-Ek Smart!
Dehr-Ek Smart!
Dehr-Ek Smart!

Betelguise? No, I didn't call you.

 

[Silverforce11]

@Sabrewings
Do you know which current studio or game has the most experience on epic scale MMO?

CCP & Eve Online. Thousands of players in epic fleet battles. I've played it for many years. I dream of an Eve Online with cockpit flight, dog-fights and capital ship battles with manned-stations.

They are AAA as the best of them for their genre. Eve Valkyrie has a smaller scope because it is grounded in realism. It is funded by a corporation that has to worry about timelines and achievable results. My point is, these guys are the best at what they do in this genre and even with a smaller scope game, its taken many years and still requires several more years at least.

CR is funded by a stream of hopes and dreams of thousands of hardcore gamers. But even that has its limits. $900 virtual ships is a sign of desperation and you'll see that if you take a step back and analyze without the passion of your dreams clouding your judgement.

 

[Sabrewings]

$900 virtual ships is a sign of desperation

It's not because there have always been expensive packages. Since the beginning with Kickstarter. Nothing has changed. Connie triple pack, anyone?

Plus, they know that with SQ42's launch they'll get a decent influx of cash from people waiting to buy a finished product. No need to be desperate at all. Also, in next weeks Develop magazine there is supposed to be a pretty detailed report of how the funding has been used and what is left. Nothing will be hiding.

 

[Stringjam]

Star Citizen will never be Eve, thank God. It will also never be ED.

I wish fans of those games would just continue to enjoy them instead of constantly whining that SC isn't going to be like them, or doesn't compare in this way or that. And an Eve fan claiming that SC fans are foolishly spending large sums of cash on virtual items? Really?

There is currently no other game released or in development that is anything like SC, and I don't care to wait or take the pledge risk in at least a chance of it happening.

 

[Sabrewings]

Star Citizen will never be Eve, thank God. It will also never be ED.

I wish fans of those games would just continue to enjoy them instead of constantly whining that SC isn't going to be like them, or doesn't compare in this way or that. And an Eve fan claiming that SC fans are foolishly spending large sums of cash on virtual items? Really?

There is currently no other game released or in development that is anything like SC, and I don't care to wait or take the pledge risk in at least a chance of it happening.

Exactly.

Looks, it's fine for those of you who don't want to back. You don't have to. You can enjoy the fruits of our contributions later and buy SQ42 at retail as well as SC when it goes full 1.0.

In the mean time, I'll be enjoying watching the development and playing around in the baby PU.

 

[rivethead]

Bodes well for SQ42:

http://www.develop-online.net/news/star-citizen-single-player-will-have-top-level-movie-cast/0211861

I can't wait to have a AAA quality space flight sim campaign. Been way too long since the genre was paid attention.

Sadly, there is a very vocal minority on the CIG boards that think SQ42 will be nothing more than a tutorial for SC. They couldn't be more wrong. Fools.

I'm looking forward to SQ42 more than SC and I think many other people are too.

 

[Sabrewings]

Sadly, there is a very vocal minority on the CIG boards that think SQ42 will be nothing more than a tutorial for SC. They couldn't be more wrong. Fools.

I'm looking forward to SQ42 more than SC and I think many other people are too.

That would be the ultimate shit storm. Seeing how it's intended to be a trilogy story arc and be over 20 hours per episode in the trilogy. If that happened, I'm out.

But, I don't see that happening. CIG are very careful about what info they release because they understand all too well the internet hoards. That being said, CR has been talking up SQ42 and multicrew quite a bit the last couple weeks. I'm pretty excited for Citizencon.

BTW, I think I had a dream last night that a new patch dropped. Either FPS module or Social Module 2.0. Don't think it was Baby PU. Anyway, the download size was already up to 55GB. :awe:

 

[JSt0rm]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...alk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

You guys are deep in the doodoo if you dont see all the warning signs. Escapist just came out with this article. Thats not a small no name upstart.

 

[TheVrolok]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...alk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

You guys are deep in the doodoo if you dont see all the warning signs. Escapist just came out with this article. Thats not a small no name upstart.

I'm happy I still have my Super Hornet LTI package remaining, but am pretty glad I liquidated everything else for profit. I would not want to be in the red to CIG at this point, despite still holding out hope.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm happy I still have my Super Hornet LTI package remaining, but am pretty glad I liquidated everything else for profit. I would not want to be in the red to CIG at this point, despite still holding out hope.

And I still have my basic starter package - just in case. HoweverI would bet that same $40 that this thing will never be what he promised. Technically he has already delivered a game though :awe:

 

[JSt0rm]

Let me add somebody is going to commit suicide over this shit.

 

[SunnyD]

$900 virtual ships is a sign of desperation and you'll see that if you take a step back and analyze without the passion of your dreams clouding your judgement.

Here's another one for you - Richard Garriott's Shroud of the Avatar has pledge packages all the way up to $12,000. Guess what? All of the $11,000 packages are sold out, as are the $3200 and $3700 packages.

And guess what else? The game's development by all rights seems to be on track and healthy, having generated over $7,000,000 in funding. Yeah, I've played it... fairly regularly lately no less. It's progressing though its alpha stages quite nicely.

But is the fact that they added a new $12,000 package and a few other higher tier packages (multiple hundreds of dollars) not too long ago a sign of desperation? Or is it instead a sign that the title is popular and perhaps other backers wanted to spend more money on higher tiers that were no longer available?

People need to stop bitching about these titles and whining about money that other people have spent. If those other people have made a mistake, then let time prove that mistake to them. If you've made a mistake, get your refund and move on with your damn life.

 

[Red Storm]

Chairman's response to that escapist article:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

All I see is a bunch of haters with differing agendas. Development is ongoing and progressing well from what I see. I've already made hundreds in profit from pledges (thanks people who GREATLY overvalue LTI!) and from the very beginning I've been sitting back relaxed, waiting till the game comes out. I don't care how long it's delayed, this is the type of game that will never come about from a publisher.

 

[JSt0rm]

Your right. We should all just stop talking about it. That way more suckers will blindly walk into the pit.

Some sources are now saying they only have 8 million on hand. If so time is going to prove something within the year. lol.

 

[JSt0rm]

Chairman's response to that escapist article:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

All I see is a bunch of haters with differing agendas. Development is ongoing and progressing well from what I see. I've already made hundreds in profit from pledges (thanks people who GREATLY overvalue LTI!) and from the very beginning I've been sitting back relaxed, waiting till the game comes out. I don't care how long it's delayed, this is the type of game that will never come about from a publisher.

Actually his long long response didn't dispute any of the points from the article.

 

[SunnyD]

Actually his long long response didn't dispute any of the points from the article.

The hell are you smoking? He addresses the points one by one, refuting pretty much every single one of them.

 

[JSt0rm]

The hell are you smoking? He addresses the points one by one, refuting pretty much every single one of them.

His response was basically "there are 2 sides to every story" The only thing he did do was finally admit Sandy is his wife.

 

[preslove]

Chairman's response to that escapist article:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

All I see is a bunch of haters with differing agendas. Development is ongoing and progressing well from what I see. I've already made hundreds in profit from pledges (thanks people who GREATLY overvalue LTI!) and from the very beginning I've been sitting back relaxed, waiting till the game comes out. I don't care how long it's delayed, this is the type of game that will never come about from a publisher.

Uh... that response is completely unprofessional and makes Roberts look unhinged. The article is about employees in CIG speaking out about a range of problems related to the work environment and project development, but he is ranting about Derek Smart. Literally, the only mention of Smart is in a quote of Roberts. This game is going to be a smoking ruin.

At this point, anybody who hasn't sold their ship stock to break even or profit is an idiot.

***EDIT***

If you feel satisfied with the current demo for the $$$ you've spent, then I retract my last statement. But, if you actually think Star Citizen will have a full release of anything close to their goals, then my statement stands and you are a ridiculously dumb sap.