Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[Ns1]

Yes the court has rules and they will rule in this case. What are you guys afraid of? If you are so sure they have done nothing wrong then you will be vindicated.

Without saying anything about guilt, it doesn't matter if you did something illegal or not, you still have to pay lawyers $350/hr to defend.

So as a business owner, THAT's what I would be afraid of.

 

[alcoholbob]

I have a feeling we are seeing the making of the next Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[JSt0rm]

I have a feeling we are seeing the making of the next Duke Nukem Forever.

except spergs got divorces to fund this one.

 

[Pheran]

For those of you who aren't old enough to remember this, Derek Smart was an absolutely infamous character of the early Internet if you were a PC gamer. He made huge promises for a game he was making called Battlecruiser 3000AD, which flopped horribly. He became embroiled in giant flame wars on Usenet (newsgroups that effectively served as the forums of the Internet back then) that went on for literally years. I have no idea whether Star Citizen's financials are sound or not, but Mr. Smart certainly has a long and dubious history associated with him.

 

[JSt0rm]

For those of you who aren't old enough to remember this, Derek Smart was an absolutely infamous character of the early Internet if you were a PC gamer. He made huge promises for a game he was making called Battlecruiser 3000AD, which flopped horribly. He became embroiled in giant flame wars on Usenet (newsgroups that effectively served as the forums of the Internet back then) that went on for literally years. I have no idea whether Star Citizen's financials are sound or not, but Mr. Smart certainly has a long and dubious history associated with him.

What's funny is his flop was for making the same promises croberts is making today. So of all the debs out there he probably has the most experience to speak on the subject.

 

[Fallen Kell]

How in the world would he get a pass for making claims w/o evidence? The whole point of discovery is to find evidence of wrong doing. If CIG has done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about.

Actually the whole point of discovery is to enable a party to obtain relevant information needed to prepare your party's case. You still first need to show cause.

For example in a breach of contract case, which is essentially what this comes down to, you need to show that you have a valid contract in place, and what was promised in the contract has not been fulfilled by the other party to the contract.

The problem Derek has here are the terms of the contract he entered when he funded Star Citizen through Kickstarter:

When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
...
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
...
These are the terms that apply when you’re creating a project:

You can refund individual pledges if you want. After your project has been funded, you can cancel and refund a backer’s pledge at any time. If you do, you have no further obligation to that specific backer, and no agreement exists between you.

Notice that last one that I posted? Derek is going to have a hard time showing that a valid contract is in place, as the rules of the contract he entered specifically stipulate that the creators of a project can refund a individual pledge if they want and that if they do, there is no further obligation to that backer as the contract is now void.

Derek can b***** and moan all he wants, but won't pass the first sniff test of any lawsuit he himself brings, and any lawyer worth his time will tell Derek that (which is probably why he is trying to make it a class action with other un-named members). The problem that all of them have is that they won't stay unnamed, and at any time, CIG can refund them if they pledged under the kickstarter contract.

As for people who pledged under the RSI website and subsequent post kickstart fundraising, no one can currently claim breach of contract:

...-The Pledge shall be earned by RSI and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Pledge Item Cost and/or the Game Cost, with your Pledge being applied as follows: first to the Pledge Item Cost, and then on a pro rata pari passu basis with all other contributors whose deposits have been deducted by the relevant Pledge Item Cost, to the Game Cost.

-RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date communicated to you on the Website. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a firm promise and may be extended by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you within eighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.

-For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items, RSI agrees to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that you shall irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any Pledge that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above....

So to meet these requirements, CIG simply needs to comply with essentially the kickstarter terms of failure, posting a detailed accounting of the funding if/when it is determined that the game can not be completed, not before that has occurred like Derek currently wants.

 

[nsafreak]

For those that don't already know, Chris Robert's business partner is Ortwin Freyermuth. He's a very senior media lawyer with a lot of courtroom experience and a good deal of respect in his field. I'm reasonably sure that when he heard about this case that he had a nice laugh and is quite ready to trounce Mr. Smart and his lawyer.

 

[bbhaag]

Yeah but at whose expense....oh ya ours.🙁

 

[Stringjam]

I just want to see some kind of evidence SQ42 is nearing completion. It's slated for 1Q 2016, but there aren't any trailers / teasers (aside from old footage / random scenes) and almost no screenshots or discussion anywhere.

Either SQ42 is just going to pop out of nowhere or they are keeping serious wraps on it for some reason.

 

[Red Storm]

Anybody trying to sue clearly has no interest in the space genre or gaming at all and is just looking to make some money... money which came from crowd funding. Only a really slimy douche would do something like that.

Don't like the game? Don't think it's going to work? Get a refund and go home. To try and sue a crowd funded project is just disgusting. :thumbsdown:

 

[SunnyD]

IF CIG wants to do business in america then this should all be open to the court system. Are you worried that CIG is doing something wrong and you dont care?

I gave $35 to a crowdfunded game to back it.

CROWDFUNDED.

That meant I knew there was a chance that I was throwing money at vaporware. I knew the risks going into it. If I don't get anything out of it, guess what? I'll shrug my shoulders and walk away because I have two things: Reasonable expectations and self control.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

It'll get dismissed before it ever makes it to trial. Just proves my comments regarding Smart are true.

Side bar: trollers gonna troll, a certain person's infatuation with Smart, admitted Goon membership, and instant hard on for anything that could possibly smear SC is simply further proof :wub:

 

[rivethead]

Yeah but at whose expense....oh ya ours.🙁

Initially. But if you sue and you lose, you then open yourself up to a countersuit to recover legal fees as well as damages for harm to reputation, etc.

There could also be room for a class action lawsuit against Smart by SC backers.....this (crowd funding) is new territory.

Anyone can sue anyone these days. Despite what someone posted above, it really doesn't take a lot of money to file a lawsuit. And sometimes just the mere filing of a lawsuit accomplishes the filer's objectives. That's what I think is going on here. Smart's just trying to sully the CIG name and/or suck out some development funding so his market share isn't completely obliterated.

Plus he gets more "look at me, I'm relevant" exposure.

 

[chimaxi83]

It'll get dismissed before it ever makes it to trial. Just proves my comments regarding Smart are true.

Side bar: trollers gonna troll, a certain person's infatuation with Smart, admitted Goon membership, and instant hard on for anything that could possibly smear SC is simply further proof :wub:

Thinclient V2 can't help himself.

 

[SithSolo1]

I just want to see some kind of evidence SQ42 is nearing completion. It's slated for 1Q 2016, but there aren't any trailers / teasers (aside from old footage / random scenes) and almost no screenshots or discussion anywhere.

Either SQ42 is just going to pop out of nowhere or they are keeping serious wraps on it for some reason.

Early on they decided to keep SQ42 under wraps so as not to spoil the story. That's why we've only seen some small snippets of SQ42 work. The current plan is to show off the trailer and reveal more info about SQ42 at CitizenCon (Oct. 10 @ 11pm EST). If they fail to do that then you can start worrying.

I've pledged about $1200. I want CIG to succeed, I want StarCitizen to be amazing. Only time will tell but I'm not gonna cry if $1200 bucks, over the course of years, goes up in smoke.

 

[preslove]

How can Smart have standing to sue, if he's already been refunded his pledge $? This will get thrown out very quickly.

But, anyone who has invested significant (to them) money into this game should sell their account while they can. This game is going to be a major debacle.

 

[rivethead]

The current plan is to show off the trailer and reveal more info about SQ42 at CitizenCon (Oct. 10 @ 11pm EST). If they fail to do that then you can start worrying.

Really? I haven't heard anything about that plan.

I certainly hope that is true because the lack of SQ42 news has me puzzled as well. I mean, I get keeping it largely under wraps so as not to spoil anything, but I have to think there is still plenty they could tactfully show without revealing anything....title page, ending credits, save screen, load screen, character creation screen....anything to give us proof this code actually exists would be appreciated.

 

[Stringjam]

Really? I haven't heard anything about that plan.

I certainly hope that is true because the lack of SQ42 news has me puzzled as well. I mean, I get keeping it largely under wraps so as not to spoil anything, but I have to think there is still plenty they could tactfully show without revealing anything....title page, ending credits, save screen, load screen, character creation screen....anything to give us proof this code actually exists would be appreciated.

I agree. I'm really looking forward to SQ42 based solely on what little information CIG has made available, as long as it doesn't play like the single player campaigns from BF or COD. That's my biggest fear - that the SP episodes will play out with the kind of soulless military / corporate, yay 'splosions themed tropes you typically get with games of that type.

I'm hoping the story will be worth following.

 

[JSt0rm]

D smart says he hasn't received the refund yet. Also CIG is not going to give refunds to everyone. That money is spent. The question is did they spend it renting a house @11k a month and move forward with a film project for sandy (his wife)? These are real questions. If you guys want to say that anyone who thinks SC when into negative territory is no true gamer then I dont know what to tell you. Im not trolling you guys. Everything I'm talking about is real. If I was trolling I would be making things up.

And yeah goon so what? Have you seen the games forum over there? The starcitizen thread gets about 400 posts a day. The whole things has 5 pages of threads that are in the daily movement. There are about 100x more gamers over there to talk to about gaming.

Some people in the SC thread are backers who spent a lot. Some are people that like watching accident scenes and some are backers that realize "whelp I guess that is a mess". They arent calling each other trolls though and saying you must not be a real gamer to think a way.

 

[Ns1]

The question is did they spend it renting a house @11k a month and move forward with a film project for sandy (his wife)?

Evidence first, lawsuit later.

 

[BoberFett]

I just love all the fun and positivity you bring to a gaming thread. 😀

What game? I don't see a game. I see a promise of a game someday in the future, which is very different than a game.

 

[JSt0rm]

Evidence first, lawsuit later.

There is lots of evidence of possible stuff. A lot of people refuse to look at it because, well after spending $1200 you probably are going to have a bias.

 

[Ns1]

There is lots of evidence of possible stuff. A lot of people refuse to look at it because, well after spending $1200 you probably are going to have a bias.

I haven't seen any presented, most certainly not in the Derek smart link which originally made the claim.

I haven't spent a dollar. No bias here 😉

 

[SLU Aequitas]

D smart says he hasn't received the refund yet. Also CIG is not going to give refunds to everyone. That money is spent.

He's not a stakeholder. No one is, we're not investors. CIG isn't public, there's no requirement for audited financials. Also, pretty sure it's an incredibly small portion who want "refunds".

The question is did they spend it renting a house @11k a month and move forward with a film project for sandy (his wife)? These are real questions.

No it's not. Where's the information coming from? Derek "Smart" needs to have some sort of basis for these claims, otherwise we're in a good ol' fashioned shake down. Hint: Derek Smart has a financial interest as SC would wipe out any remaining stake he has in the market.

If you guys want to say that anyone who thinks SC when into negative territory is no true gamer then I dont know what to tell you. Im not trolling you guys. Everything I'm talking about is real. If I was trolling I would be making things up.

You don't need to make things up to be a troll 🙂

And yeah goon so what? Have you seen the games forum over there? The starcitizen thread gets about 400 posts a day. The whole things has 5 pages of threads that are in the daily movement. There are about 100x more gamers over there to talk to about gaming.

I'm sure there's some good goons somewhere. I'll let you know when I come across one :lol:

Some people in the SC thread are backers who spent a lot. Some are people that like watching accident scenes and some are backers that realize "whelp I guess that is a mess". They arent calling each other trolls though and saying you must not be a real gamer to think a way.

First category = trolls, plain and simple, especially when they're trying to manufacture a problem. I've yet to see anything that suggests the second category is justified. Where's the problem? I mean, first it was "SC has nothing, it's vaporware lulz". SC releases AC, it shifts to "they're lying about the FPS/persistant universe". SC releases footage of Star Marine, shows off PTU and client, multi-person ships, and people are just grasping for other straws. It's amusing in a way, but mostly sad.

There's more than enough legitimate complaints about the game, I just don't see the point to these troll attempts saying the game is vaporware or the CR is lying to us all and secretly pocketing our money.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm wondering if Mr. Smart wanted to work with Chris but was turned away? That would be telling but I'm speculating kind of like Mr. Smart.