Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[Arglebargle]

Ok we get it. You don't like Chris Roberts, how about you stop pissing all over the thread now?

I missed the 'Only flowers and happiness posts allowed' rule.


Best case scenario, the prodigal son delivers. Good luck.

 

[TehMac]

Yeah, I guess since the Hollywood deals petered out, he had to do something. Falling back on the old rep and some new funding channels certainly helps. Maybe it will be as wonderful as the original rosy (and ambiguous) PR said. Maybe not.

No one I know who worked with Roberts has much positive to say about it.

If I were a funder, I'd be crossing my fingers.....

I hate to rain on your conspiracy theory, but not everyone who goes into gaming from hollywood and vice versa is desperate for a "deal."

people at that point legitimately like working and have broader visions than just "Art Director a film" or "just want to make teh games man"

 

[sygyzy]

I funded this a while ago even though I am not a huge space sim fan/player. With that said, I find myself oddly annoyed and almost resentful at each update the Star Citizen team sends, which at this point is about 5 a day. My problem is their project, like all successful projects, are based on a money grab, all spurred on by more "goals." At least KS's with physical products, adding a bluetooth module to a tablet, makes sense. I can see how that's a stretch goal. In gaming, it's literally Chris Roberts saying "Oh you guys raised an additional $500k? I'll gifting you a new planet!" Then he just sits there and says

Planet Name: Xorbita
Atmosphere: Methane, Helium
Minerals: Ore, Diamonds
Size: Equivalent to to Earths
Galaxy: Nebelus Wakanero

Then he goes to his art dept and says Used 3DSMax and draw me a sphere, then color it orange.

Boom. $500k.

Furthermore, they keep adding extra ways to earn money like pay us $100 and you can buy a ship. I feel like I have already LOST this game before I even started playing because I don't want to donate $500 to the cause.

 

[irishScott]

I funded this a while ago even though I am not a huge space sim fan/player. With that said, I find myself oddly annoyed and almost resentful at each update the Star Citizen team sends, which at this point is about 5 a day. My problem is their project, like all successful projects, are based on a money grab, all spurred on by more "goals." At least KS's with physical products, adding a bluetooth module to a tablet, makes sense. I can see how that's a stretch goal. In gaming, it's literally Chris Roberts saying "Oh you guys raised an additional $500k? I'll gifting you a new planet!" Then he just sits there and says

Planet Name: Xorbita
Atmosphere: Methane, Helium
Minerals: Ore, Diamonds
Size: Equivalent to to Earths
Galaxy: Nebelus Wakanero

Then he goes to his art dept and says Used 3DSMax and draw me a sphere, then color it orange.

Boom. $500k.

Furthermore, they keep adding extra ways to earn money like pay us $100 and you can buy a ship. I feel like I have already LOST this game before I even started playing because I don't want to donate $500 to the cause.

So in your world only physical products cost money? Development time is a precious and expensive commodity. Properly developing an entire system or planet with its own look, feel, traits, etc and then balancing that with the whole game is a daunting task in and of itself. It costs a lot of work hours for a lot of professionals. That costs a lot of money. Oh and I'd like to point out that planets are being offered every 100k, every 500k provides more significant updates.

I admit their PR campaign could use some streamlining, but I don't see anything insidious here, just standard marketing (which I suppose you could argue is insidious by nature). I've only funded $37 and I don't feel like I've lost squat. He says the game won't be pay-to-win and I have no reason to think otherwise at this time. So I'll have a richer experience of climbing the ladder that the fanbois spending $500 for super-mega-ships are going to miss out on.

Sounds like you lack faith in his ability to properly balance the game.

 

[ViRGE]

Hmmmmmm... how bout this Drake Cutlass? I get the sense that would be an in between tho and make for mediocre trading and mediocre combat, so I better have some friends to assist in fighters in case of escorted freelancers.

The Cutlass is more of a raiding ship. You either hit up soft targets with it, or you have fighter support to take a big target down while it handles boarding and looting.

 

[sygyzy]

So in your world only physical products cost money? Development time is a precious and expensive commodity. Properly developing an entire system or planet with its own look, feel, traits, etc and then balancing that with the whole game is a daunting task in and of itself. It costs a lot of work hours for a lot of professionals. That costs a lot of money. Oh and I'd like to point out that planets are being offered every 100k, every 500k provides more significant updates.

I admit their PR campaign could use some streamlining, but I don't see anything insidious here, just standard marketing (which I suppose you could argue is insidious by nature). I've only funded $37 and I don't feel like I've lost squat. He says the game won't be pay-to-win and I have no reason to think otherwise at this time. So I'll have a richer experience of climbing the ladder that the fanbois spending $500 for super-mega-ships are going to miss out on.

Sounds like you lack faith in his ability to properly balance the game.

You're absolutely right that development costs time and money. My issue with many KS projects that use stretch goals to raise more money, not just this one, is that they are purposely screwing customers in the interest of profit for the creators. What do you think is better for the consumer?

Project 1: Pair of sunglasses. Goal $50k. If we raise more, great, that means we just deliver more pairs. The R&D is a static cost. Once we figure out how to make sunglasses, the rest is easy.

Project 2: Pair of sunglasses with stretch goals. Goal $50k, but for every goal we add lenses, different coatings, monocle options, different frame options made out of titanium/bone/wood. Hey we have no idea how to even work with antler, but we'll just add that in too.

Which project do you think will come in on time and which one will be a clusterf*ck?

 

[Cyco-Dude]

I funded this a while ago even though I am not a huge space sim fan/player. With that said, I find myself oddly annoyed and almost resentful at each update the Star Citizen team sends, which at this point is about 5 a day. My problem is their project, like all successful projects, are based on a money grab, all spurred on by more "goals." At least KS's with physical products, adding a bluetooth module to a tablet, makes sense. I can see how that's a stretch goal. In gaming, it's literally Chris Roberts saying "Oh you guys raised an additional $500k? I'll gifting you a new planet!" Then he just sits there and says

Planet Name: Xorbita
Atmosphere: Methane, Helium
Minerals: Ore, Diamonds
Size: Equivalent to to Earths
Galaxy: Nebelus Wakanero

Then he goes to his art dept and says Used 3DSMax and draw me a sphere, then color it orange.

Boom. $500k.

Furthermore, they keep adding extra ways to earn money like pay us $100 and you can buy a ship. I feel like I have already LOST this game before I even started playing because I don't want to donate $500 to the cause.

the game is not pay to win. so what if some guy bought a corvette for $1,000, the game is not just about PvP. also, high price does not mean one ship is better than another.

as for your first point, i think you need to actually LOOK at the content these goals unlock...more missions, more ships (some of them are huge!), more star systems, more features like boarding, mobile apps that tie into the game (we'll see about that), broad hardware support...etc etc etc. we get all those star systems in the bigger milestones, they just trickle them out one at a time. it's real work to create this stuff, although if it really was as easy as you seem to think it is, GREAT! that just means more content in the end. the point being, it's not a cash grab. we raised the money, therefore he is able to include all of this content in the initial release two years from now (hopefully).

...Which project do you think will come in on time and which one will be a clusterf*ck?

not really the same situation (ok, that mobile app one...), but everything listed is stuff they're already doing. it's just with more money, they can do more of it.

anyway, they're streaming again:

chris' stream
ben's stream
office stream
site that has all streams in one window
twitch tv re-stream with multiple stream and chat windows!

 

[Kalmah]

You're absolutely right that development costs time and money. My issue with many KS projects that use stretch goals to raise more money, not just this one, is that they are purposely screwing customers in the interest of profit for the creators. What do you think is better for the consumer?

Project 1: Pair of sunglasses. Goal $50k. If we raise more, great, that means we just deliver more pairs. The R&D is a static cost. Once we figure out how to make sunglasses, the rest is easy.

Project 2: Pair of sunglasses with stretch goals. Goal $50k, but for every goal we add lenses, different coatings, monocle options, different frame options made out of titanium/bone/wood. Hey we have no idea how to even work with antler, but we'll just add that in too.

Which project do you think will come in on time and which one will be a clusterf*ck?

I see what you're saying.. let's assume the game can be as complete as it can be with 4mil, getting to 5 mil will give us a planet that takes a week or less to put together and doesn't necessarily cost 1mil to produce; therefore free money in their pockets.

Well, I'm definitely not educated on the subject, but I think studio budgets might be more difficult to balance than we think. It seems like every studio goes out of business if it doesn't produce perfectly or isn't bought out by a 'greedy' publisher(which may keep them in business, but you start getting shitty products). That extra million could go to more bug squashing before release or add that extra polish they wanted to the interface, could it not? Even if they are only advertising an extra planet it's probably doing a lot more.

Just a guess. Thoughts?

 

[GoodRevrnd]

My problem with stretch goals is when they use them to add game concepts. It just smells like they're either just claiming those are stretch goals to encourage people to donate more, or they don't have a clear enough concept in mind to begin with. I'd prefer a unified cohesive project being delivered, and if they want stretch it should be for little add-ons that don't actually effect the game but improve its quality, like a live orchestral score, better/more voiceovers, etc. Then you can get into areas of adding additional continent B, which is still somewhat okay since it doesn't necessarily change the game too much but just gives more content. Once you get to things like "more character classes" I start getting annoyed because they should probably just be in the game anyway, and when you reach "dynamic subsystem of extra awesomeness that is really a core game concept" I think they're doing a great disservice to their game.

That extra million could go to more bug squashing before release or add that extra polish they wanted to the interface, could it not? Even if they are only advertising an extra planet it's probably doing a lot more.

I really think this is a big part of it. I understand "better QA!" isn't going to inspire more people to donate, but a lot of the "feature creep" and "bonus content" style stretch goals these studios do border on dishonest and I think ultimately harm the Kickstarter experience long term.

 

[Cyco-Dude]

we'll see in 12-24 months! also...i hope you guys were watching the stream...what a crazy interview! LOL

 

[ViRGE]

My problem with stretch goals is when they use them to add game concepts. It just smells like they're either just claiming those are stretch goals to encourage people to donate more, or they don't have a clear enough concept in mind to begin with.

In Roberts' case, it's been presented as being a list of things he's always wanted to do. The difference is that with funding he can do it sooner. E.G. if the campaign didn't get much higher than 2mil then only Squadron 42 would have launched in 2014 with those sales funding the development of Star Citizen. But with 5mil+ they can develop Star Citizen in tandem, and it starts to become a question of how much of their planned content can be developed ahead of the game's launch.

 

[ilkhan]

Indeed, the way they are presenting it the stretch goals add developer hours to get stuff done at launch instead of 6 months later. Adding developer hours means more staff means more payroll. So it does make sense.

Anyway, I grabbed the cutlass package, we'll see how it works in game once we actually get to the game.

 

[irishScott]

They just passed 5.5, apparently 6 million is the holy grail.

$5.5 million! You've unlocked the Bengal carrier, added motion capture to Squadron 42 and earned the exclusive Record Breaker skin.

When we set out to crowd-fund Star Citizen we asked for two million dollars, the absolute minimum with which we thought we could build a solid game. And then we planned stretch goals so that we could include everything else we imagined. We expected three million, hoped for four million, dreamed of five million and so on. And the absolute top option, the impossible dream, was six million.

Six million was what it would take us to build the game we were imagining with all the bells and whistles we wanted included. Well, here we are with just over eight hours to go and that impossible goal where everything is unlocked is suddenly in sight. At six million you'll launch the game with 100 systems, a full orchestral score and a free copy of the first Squadron 42 mission disk, Behind Enemy Lines.

It's not as sexy as unlocking the carrier, for sure, but would certainly be pretty amazing if we met every one of our goals. So let's push this campaign all the way to the last minute. We can make this march!

 

[Cyco-Dude]

broke the 5.5 million dollar milestone at 6:25am et, and unlocked playable carriers, among other things. incredible.

*edit*
lol, ninja'd by irishScott!

 

[ViRGE]

They probably won't see 6mil at this rate (that would require 60K/hour), but I have been wrong before.

 

[Cyco-Dude]

honestly, i think everyone has been wrong...it's shattered every single expectation, over and over again.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Crap I wish I had a few dollars to put in.

 

[Cyco-Dude]

you've got six hours to get in on the tiers and current prices. after this initial funding period is over, you can still pledge (and get access to the alpha, etc), but there won't be as many tiers and it will cost a little more.

 

[irishScott]

honestly, i think everyone has been wrong...it's shattered every single expectation, over and over again.

We'll see what it shatters in a couple of years. I remain cautiously optimistic.

 

[irishScott]

They probably won't see 6mil at this rate (that would require 60K/hour), but I have been wrong before.

They're making it so far. Over 5.75 mil with just under 4 hours left.

 

[ViRGE]

They're making it so far. Over 5.75 mil with just under 4 hours left.

Humm. It's going to be close then.

 

[Cyco-Dude]

some numbers for you to look at...time it takes to make $50,000:

5.00M / 1hr     / sun 18
5.05M / 1hr     / sun 18
5.10M / 1hr     / sun 18
5.15M / .75hr   / sun 18
5.20M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.25M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.30M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.35M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.40M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.45M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.50M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.55M / 1.25hr  / mon 19
5.60M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.65M / .75hr   / mon 19
5.70M / 1hr     / mon 19
5.75M / .5hr    / mon 19
5.80M / .5hr    / mon 19 <--11:30am

time is actually 10:30am et, i just never adjusted my watch for daylight savings (so it wouldn't screw with my times).

 

[AdamK47]

My wife is going to hate me, but I wen't up to the $125 pledge. Gots to haves me all of those goodies!

 

[AdamK47]

$6 million is pretty much a given at this point.

 

[vshah]

trying to log in to bump up to $125 but the site is getting hammered.