Speculation: Ryzen 4000 series/Zen 3

[Topweasel]

Watching this. I get the feeling this will be a huge mess. One of those be careful what you asked for moves. As expected X370 doesn't get an update. But I was always planning on going with a 3950x in my X370 once Zen3 comes out when I can get one cheap.

 

[moinmoin]

I hope so too. IMO AMD should bring back the XFR moniker from Zen 1 era (+100 Mhz opportunitic "bonus" non-guaranteed boost). It was quite easy to understand and also useful for describing AMDs boost behaviour.

AMD never went away from the XFR moniker. They just rendered it completely meaningless with their biggest botch up wrt Zen 2.

Ryzen 3000 had no headroom to speak of. For Ryzen 4000 if it actually does have a meaningful headroom they can advertise that again. If not I prefer them to stay completely silent on this this time.

 

[Gideon]

AMD never went away from the XFR moniker. They just rendered it completely meaningless with their biggest botch up wrt Zen 2.

Ryzen 3000 had no headroom to speak of. For Ryzen 4000 if it actually does have a meaningful headroom they can advertise that again. If not I prefer them to stay completely silent on this this time.

I agree. I implicitly meant that if they have meaningful headroom (like Renoir seems to have).

 

[randomhero]

Well, some new OPNs showed up for Vermeer/Ryzen4000
Slight clock bumps, 200 MHz Base while Boost remain the same which if AMD learnt from its fiasco with Zen2 should be a more sustainable boost.






BTW these are A0 samples, things could still change(improve?)

New details on Ryzen 4000 “Renoir” desktop APUs and Ryzen “Vermeer” CPUs have appeared? The image is getting denser | igor´sLAB

Let’s start with the new “Renoir” desktop APUs, about which I had already reported in detail in the article “All technical data of AMD’s new “Renoir” desktop APU portfolio for AM4 at a glance”. Here…

www.igorslab.de

One interesting observation by Igor

This could impact latency positively. (aside of the downside of the lack of BC for non X570 boards)

Wowza!
They are hitting those clocks on A0!
Bobcat anyone???!!!

 

[DisEnchantment]

Wowza!
They are hitting those clocks on A0!
Bobcat anyone???!!!

Indeed this 16C/32T sample has about 400MHz higher base clock than the 16C/32T Zen2 ES from last year.
But not sure if final silicon can go higher.(100MHz tops if at all)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1126466183740321798

 

[randomhero]

You are quite right!

This is really turning to be another bobcat for AMD indeed.

Well done guys at AMD!

 

[Makaveli]

"AMD's updates also mark the end of the line for 400-series motherboards: AMD will not support future processors on the platform. The company also confirmed that Ryzen 4000 will land this year. "

The way this is worded makes it sound like the 500 series will see cpu's after Zen 3

 

[AtenRa]

"AMD's updates also mark the end of the line for 400-series motherboards: AMD will not support future processors on the platform. The company also confirmed that Ryzen 4000 will land this year. "

The way this is worded makes it sound like the 500 series will see cpu's after Zen 3

No Marketing
AMD - AM4 will not support any more future CPU releases after ZEN 3

Marketing
AMD - 400 cheapset will not support any more future CPU releases after ZEN 3

Same thing but they need to sell B550 and X570 for now

 

[RetroZombie]

Bobcat anyone???!!!

Could you please explain?


I had many friends with the socket 7 and socket A cpus where they put cpus that the boards didn't say it supports and the cpu worked just fine.

I think official support and support is two different things, just looking at this anandtech chart we can see that according to them the A320 doesn't work with zen2 cpus and it works perfectly fine:

 

[DrMrLordX]

Well, this is kind of expected from AMD. So now we can get drunk and celebrate well.

Why do I feel like we've been baited? Remember AMD cutting the price of Navi at launch by $50?

 

[randomhero]

Could you please explain?


I had many friends with the socket 7 and socket A cpus where they put cpus that the boards didn't say it supports and the cpu worked just fine.

I think official support and support is two different things, just looking at this anandtech chart we can see that according to them the A320 doesn't work with zen2 cpus and it works perfectly fine:

View attachment 21287

It has nothing to do with motherboards.

I was refering to bobcat CPU. It went to market as A0 stepping. That was unheard of in semiconductor industry. Or at least as rare as chicken teeth.

Sorry for the confusion.

Edit: Bobcat was also low power core and Zen is high performance core which is even more impressive. It is actually crazy impressive.

 

[RetroZombie]

It has nothing to do with motherboards.

I made the confusion, should have made two posts.

I was refering to bobcat CPU. It went to market as A0 stepping. That was unheard of in semiconductor industry. Or at least as rare as chicken teeth.

Didn't know about that, it seams amd works very well with tsmc.

 

[Panino Manino]

Very good clocks for early silicon, and if the IPC really improved 10-15% than Sunny Cove shouldn't be a threat, right?
I'm curious, the improvement to cache a latency that people keep talking, it's something in like with the improvement in core communication latency seems on the current Zen 2 mobile? Or even better? Is this even possible? ( think it's around 10-20ns better than in the Zen 2 desktop)

 

[uzzi38]

Apparently the 3300X can peak at 4.35GHz at stock with at least one sample at stock, so it might be safe to assume AMD are rolling back on boost clocks a little bit for good.

 

[Topweasel]

I had many friends with the socket 7 and socket A cpus where they put cpus that the boards didn't say it supports and the cpu worked just fine.

That was a different time. At that time you get not needed the most basic of code for a single chip and the chip itself would handle specific. A Tbird 700 would only difference with a Tbird 900 by connections established on the packaging (look up pencil trick). A socket might only need microcode for 2-3 much simpler chips.

Now there are so many variations that have to be covered. The full CPU has to be identified for defualt clocks, turbo, in AMDs case PSP, and the full chip name value (to fight counterfeiting).

 

[NobleX13]

Why do I feel like we've been baited? Remember AMD cutting the price of Navi at launch by $50?

It's possible, but I don't really think that is something their marketing department intended to happen. They usually stick to the "harass Intel" strategy as of late.

That $50 price cut at launch was just a last-minute course correction to slot their Navi cards in just right. AMD needed to get as much profit as possible out of Navi in order to atone for some of the financial performance of previous Radeon products, so that meant a last-minute price adjustment. Price your cards too low and you are leaving money on the table. Price them too high and you won't move enough volume to keep shareholders happy.

 

[randomhero]

I made the confusion, should have made two posts.

Aah, no biggie.

Didn't know about that, it seams amd works very well with tsmc.

It was almost decade ago on 40nm proccess. I have almost forgot about it.

And yes, they certainly both have top class engineers. You don't produce this results by sheer luck.
I cannot express how much I am impressed.

 

[lightmanek]

No Marketing
AMD - AM4 will not support any more future CPU releases after ZEN 3

Marketing
AMD - 400 cheapset will not support any more future CPU releases after ZEN 3

Same thing but they need to sell B550 and X570 for now

I thnk it's not exactly just a marketing. I fully expect future AMD APU's based on Zen 3 core to still work on AM4 500 series boards but will not be supported on older chipsets.

 

[Ajay]

I thnk it's not exactly just a marketing. I fully expect future AMD APU's based on Zen 3 core to still work on AM4 500 series boards but will not be supported on older chipsets.

Not if they are released on AM5. They are coming out in 2021 AFAIK, if true, then AMD is free of it's promise anyway.

 

[Valantar]

Not if they are released on AM5. They are coming out in 2021 AFAIK, if true, then AMD is free of it's promise anyway.

Yeah, given the staggered launch cycles of APUs and CPUs there will need to be a break somewhere - either the 5000 series is split across both AM4 (APUs) and AM5 (CPUs) or Zen 3 is split in the opposite way. I would say the former is far less likely than the latter simply as having parts nominally in the same series that use different sockets and are entirely incompatible would be extremely confusing for everyone. In addition to that APUs have far more to gain than CPUs from DDR5, so they would be a logical first launch for a DDR5 platform (even if that comes with the drawback of an early controller with all the issues that brings with it).

 

[Veradun]

Yeah, given the staggered launch cycles of APUs and CPUs there will need to be a break somewhere - either the 5000 series is split across both AM4 (APUs) and AM5 (CPUs) or Zen 3 is split in the opposite way. I would say the former is far less likely than the latter simply as having parts nominally in the same series that use different sockets and are entirely incompatible would be extremely confusing for everyone. In addition to that APUs have far more to gain than CPUs from DDR5, so they would be a logical first launch for a DDR5 platform (even if that comes with the drawback of an early controller with all the issues that brings with it).

And the price tag for the new ram on a lower tier product

 

[lightmanek]

Not if they are released on AM5. They are coming out in 2021 AFAIK, if true, then AMD is free of it's promise anyway.

Not denying that, as it is entirely possible, but I remember reading or watching a report stating AMD plans DDR5 platforms for 2022 earliest. If that's the case, we will have one more round of APU's on DDR4 platform for sure.

 

[DisEnchantment]

ASMedia is the manufacturer of AMD's B550 and A520 chipsets, which are set to launch in June and September 2020, respectively, the sources said. AMD's Ryzen 4000 series CPUs are scheduled to become available at the end of the third quarter or early fourth-quarter 2020, supporting only B550 and X570 chipsets. ASMedia has also recently landed orders from AMD for its 600 series chipsets that is scheduled for the end of 2020, the sources said.

Well next quarter its going to be then.

Also ASMedia's record orders from AMD. Somebody is dreaming BIG.

ASMedia's gross margin, operating profit margin and net profit margin all achieved new records in the first quarter thanks to strong orders from AMD, the sources said. As AMD is set to unveil its new platform and may see market share rise further later in 2020, ASMedia expects its financial results for the second quarter and whole-year 2020 to both reach new heights, the sources added.

MediaTek, Aspeed, ASMedia to see strong 2020

MediaTek, Aspeed Technology and ASMedia Technology are expected to post impressive sales results for 2020 benefiting from the ongoing US-China trade tensions and clients' new products, according to market observers.

www.digitimes.com

 

[JustMe21]

Hopefully we get and APU with at least 14 CU on DDR 5. I also hope AMD gets their APU processors out around the same time as the non APU processors since they no longer have to utilize Global Foundaries.

 

[moinmoin]

I also hope AMD gets their APU processors out around the same time as the non APU processors since they no longer have to utilize Global Foundaries.

No chance since that would mean delaying the non-APU processors. AMD first finishes the cores and uncore/package/platform, and then builds a mobile optimized APU from the building blocks of that.