Special Counsel Mueller has submitted his report to Attorney General Barr

[fskimospy]

Mueller would have acted on significant evidence, imo.

And done what, exactly? He couldn't indict Trump so what was he supposed to do?

 

[LTC8K6]

What's also apparently clear, is that many of the Trump faithful still fail to grasp the nuance around not being able to criminally charge one for something, and he or she not having done it.

Legally that's pretty much the case, though. As a prosecutor, if you believe that you can't prove a case, then you don't go there.

 

[LTC8K6]

And done what, exactly? He couldn't indict Trump so what was he supposed to do?

Draw a conclusion and recommend prosecution.

 

[Maxima1]

I don't know why people keep saying the president is in the clear. Barr made it just a binary pile of crap. The collusion part could be massively damaging and very near to indictable, and there's the counterintel aspect of it.

.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1110273711675002886

https://twitter.com/x/status/1110253102706409475

 

[LTC8K6]

I've said several times that while I think Trump is clear of the SP, he's far from in the clear overall.

 

[fskimospy]

Draw a conclusion and recommend prosecution.

He was never going to recommend prosecution. As for the rest, considering we have almost no idea what Mueller put in his report it seems impossible to say.

The one thing we do know is that by Barr's description the report contains enough evidence of obstruction of justice that Mueller explicitly did not clear him of the charge.

 

[LTC8K6]

He was never going to recommend prosecution. As for the rest, considering we have almost no idea what Mueller put in his report it seems impossible to say.

The one thing we do know is that by Barr's description the report contains enough evidence of obstruction of justice that Mueller explicitly did not clear him of the charge.

I'm 100% certain that Mueller would have had no problem recommending legal action against a sitting President.

 

[Fern]

Ummm...How is he "clear" of obstruction.
-snip-

The DoJ has now officially ruled on it. They're done with it.

Congress can do what they want. "Misdemeanor" merely means misbehavior; that covers anything Congress wants it too. Impeachment has always seemed unlikely due to its political nature, even more here as it would constitute 'another bite at the apple' and Congress would be overturning the conclusion of a process (Special Counsel) they themselves designed/set up.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

I'm 100% certain that Mueller would have had no problem recommending legal action against a sitting President.

You expected Mueller to recommend action in violation of longstanding DOJ legal opinion? What possible reason would you have to believe that?

It makes no logical sense to have such strong opinions about a report when you have almost zero knowledge of what that report contains.

 

[fskimospy]

The DoJ has now officially ruled on it. They're done with it.

Congress can do what they want. "Misdemeanor" merely means misbehavior; that covers anything Congress wants it too. Impeachment has always seemed unlikely due to its political nature, even more here as it would constitute 'another bite at the apple' and Congress would be overturning the conclusion of a process (Special Counsel) they themselves designed/set up.

Fern

They would not be overturning the conclusion at all as impeachment and criminal charges are two entirely different things. I think we can all think of huge numbers of things that would merit impeachment but would not be criminal.

 

[Fern]

And done what, exactly? He couldn't indict Trump so what was he supposed to do?

I'm tired of seeing the rules erroneously described.

Bill Clinton was indicted (and convicted) of perjury. So, yes, a sitting President can be indicted. As I understand it DoJ policy precludes indicting a President only for crimes committed prior to assumption of office.

(EDIT) Struck out as DoJ policy is no indictment regardless of when alleged crime was committed)

But to your question of "what was he supposed to do?" - The Mueller report (supposedly) claims that their decision was reached assuming there was no DoJ policy against indictment. Therefor, Mueller's solution would be to assert cause for indictment and then defer due to DoJ policy (assuming any alleged crime occurred before Trump took office). This would supply cause/ammo to Congress for impeachment.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

I'm tired of seeing the rules erroneously described.

Bill Clinton was indicted (and convicted) of perjury. So, yes, a sitting President can be indicted. As I understand it DoJ policy precludes indicting a President only for crimes committed prior to assumption of office.

This is false. Bill Clinton was never indicted and never convicted of perjury. Where did you hear this nonsense?

Also, the DOJ draws no distinction between crimes committed before or after office. Even if it did, obstruction of justice is a crime Trump would have committed while in office, same as Clinton.

But to your question of "what was he supposed to do?" - The Mueller report (supposedly) claims that their decision was reached assuming there was no DoJ policy against indictment. Therefor, Mueller's solution would be to assert cause for indictment and then defer due to DoJ policy (assuming any alleged crime occurred before Trump took office). This would supply cause/ammo to Congress for impeachment.

Fern

The Mueller report does not supposedly claim that. The letter says that BARR made the determination without considering whether or not a sitting president could be indicted. Mueller's report did not make a judgment one way or the other.

 

[hal2kilo]

I feel as satisfied as a Hillary hater.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm 100% certain that Mueller would have had no problem recommending legal action against a sitting President.

I’m not 100% certain however so far I think Mueller has done a good job

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I feel as satisfied as a Hillary hater.

Ha that’s pretty funny

 

[hal2kilo]

Ha that’s pretty funny

Which means it will be unending.

 

[Fern]

Regarding release of the "full report": This is not going to happen:

1. Release of material etc. from a Grand Jury proceeding is illegal. Congress knows this, they passed the law.

2. This was (initially) a counter-intelligence investigation. Therefor it would by definition include classified material. It's illegal to release classified material. Congress knows this; they passed those laws.

3. This was a Special Counsel process. Congress created this. They found problems with the Independent Counsel rules (Whitewater) which required the full report to be furnished to Congress. Consequently, Congress created the rules which required the report to be confidential and submitted only to the AG (not Congress or be made public).

I'm tired of watching Congresspersons stand up and demand full release when they know damn it would be illegal on a number fronts as mentioned above. They're setting everybody up to be pissed off when the full report is not released for all to see.

Edit To Correct Terminology

--------------------------------------------

The subject of "exoneration".

Our judicial system in not in the business of exonerating anybody. Prosecutors decide to charge or not. They do not exonerate. The Grand jury decides to indict; they do not exonerate. The jury decides if you are guilty or not guilty; they do not exonerate.

Exoneration simply doesn't happen.

I am not surprised to see Trump claiming it; that's par for the course (imprecise language) and has political "value" to him.

I am surprised and dissapointed to see Mueller (supossidly) include that term in his report. He knows better and I suspect did it for some undisclosed and likely underhanded purpose. Mueller also shirked his responsibility by deferring the question of obstruction to Barr. It was Mueller's responsibility under the Special Counsel rules.

Fern

 

[jackstar7]

Draw a conclusion and recommend prosecution.

He's a Republican. Why would he do that?

 

[brycejones]

Regarding release of the "full report": This is not going to happen:

1. Release of material etc. from a Grand Jury proceeding is illegal. Congress knows this, they passed the law.

2. This was (initially) a counter-intelligence investigation. Therefor it would by definition include classified material. It's illegal to release classified material. Congress knows this; they passed those laws.

3. This was a Special Counsel process. Congress created this. They found problems with the Special Prosecutor rules (Whitewater) which required the full report to be furnished to Congress. Consequently, Congress created the rules which required the report to be confidential and submitted only to the AG (not Congress or be made public).

I'm tired of watching Congresspersons stand up and demand full release when they know damn it would be illegal on a number fronts as mentioned above. They're setting everybody up to be pissed off when the full report is not released for all to see.

--------------------------------------------

The subject of "exoneration".

Our judicial system in not in the business of exonerating anybody. Prosecutors decide to charge or not. They do not exonerate. The Grand jury decides to indict; they do not exonerate. The jury decides if you are guilty or not guilty; they do not exonerate.

Exoneration simply doesn't happen.

I am not surprised to see Trump claiming it; that's par for the course (imprecise language) and has political "value" to him.

I am surprised and dissapointed to see Mueller (supossidly) include that term in his report. He knows better and I suspect did it for some undisclosed and likely underhanded purpose. Mueller also shirked his responsibility by deferring the question of obstruction to Barr. It was Mueller's responsibility under the Special Counsel rules.

Fern

Fern where was Clinton indicted and convicted?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Which means it will be unending.

That’s why it’s funny

 

[fskimospy]

I’m not aware of a single member of Congress calling for the public release of the report including grand jury deliberations or classified information. When people say the ‘full report’ it should be understood as ‘the full report minus things that would be illegal to include’.

While there are undoubtedly some aspects of the counterintelligence investigation that are classified the investigation of obstruction of justice should be basically entirely unclassified. Anyone want to bet Trump fights releasing that tooth and nail?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Not in the slightest. I have expected it for some time. Mueller is a conservative and punted the issue just like the Supreme court always does on hot potato issues. He chose to protect the institution. It will now be up to the people, and the congress to deal with the issue. I expect the congress to punt the issue too. Everybody covers their own ass rather that save the country. Democracy or fascism, the elites will still have a job. You back the most worthless President the country has ever seen out of party loyalty. You are as worthless as the rest. But it's not your fault. You are a sleep walking programmed machine and none of it was your own doing. You would have dies of psychic trauma had you not broken. You survived, but as a machine. It's no longer necessary because everything you seek to protect yourself from has already happened. Try to relax and be happy.

How fucking in-reprehensibility pathetic.

I've seen some dumb fucks in my life - but you are the royal supreme of cuck retards.

As long as someone has a D next their name, you trust them more based on the emphasis of a letter to their name rather than their actual character. How pathetic. Consider drowning yourself in bleach with that level of stupidity. Allow me to find a hooker with a 'D' next to their name. I'm sure you can use that as an emphasis to ensure you that they don't have aids. You believe me, right?

As if Mueller has something to gain by defending someone that is potentially trying to help the Russian government.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I’m not aware of a single member of Congress calling for the public release of the report including grand jury deliberations or classified information. When people say the ‘full report’ it should be understood as ‘the full report minus things that would be illegal to include’.

While there are undoubtedly some aspects of the counterintelligence investigation that are classified the investigation of obstruction of justice should be basically entirely unclassified. Anyone want to bet Trump fights releasing that tooth and nail?

Funny thing is Friday he was on camera saying the full report should be released for everyone to see.
Not that means anything, he’ll change his mind thousands of times regarding releasing the report and nobody will care.

 

[Fern]

This is false. Bill Clinton was never indicted and never convicted of perjury. Where did you hear this nonsense?
-snip-

Opps my bad. That was civil.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

McConnell just blocked a senate resolution calling for the report to be made public.

Odd that he would oppose releasing a report that totally clears Trump.