Special Counsel Mueller has submitted his report to Attorney General Barr

[s0me0nesmind1]

Who said they weren't? Were you under some impression that the sole reason Hillary lost was because of Russian meddling?

Anyone with half a brain knows that Hillary lost due to democrats not showing to the polls - Not Republicans showing.

So if you are to insinuate that Russians played a part in the election, you would have to insinuate that they convinced the retarded democrat populace.

 

[Indus]

Anyone with half a brain knows that Hillary lost due to democrats not showing to the polls - Not Republicans showing.

So if you are to insinuate that Russians played a part in the election, you would have to insinuate that they convinced the retarded democrat populace.

But they did make it seem the choice was being a shit sandwich and a turd sandwich.

 

[fskimospy]

Thinking about this a little further, why was it the 1% the Russians might have swayed that made the difference? How many changed their minds by Comey's little "she's not a criminal just stupid" speech? How many changed their minds when they found out the DNC was working against Bernie? How many votes did Hillary give up by ignoring a few key states? What about the deplorable's comment? Or that little oops when she got the debate questions in advance? I think that cost her a few swing votes as well.

Why is it that none of those things enter the equation? If Hillary and the DNC had done a better job those few votes the Russians may have influenced wouldn't have mattered at all. That election was Hillary's to lose, and by golly, she pulled it off.

They do! All I meant by it was if you held everything else constant and removed the Russian influence campaign she probably wins. The same is likely true for those other factors too (especially Comey). The Russian campaign was a crime though, which seems relevant.

 

[nutxo]

But they did make it seem the choice was being a shit sandwich and a turd sandwich.

Which was true.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Why do you think it’s odd? He’s got more leverage on Trump to sign/veto whatever he wants now.

You realize he was being sarcastic right?

Thinking about this a little further, why was it the 1% the Russians might have swayed that made the difference? How many changed their minds by Comey's little "she's not a criminal just stupid" speech? How many changed their minds when they found out the DNC was working against Bernie? How many votes did Hillary give up by ignoring a few key states? What about the deplorable's comment? Or that little oops when she got the debate questions in advance? I think that cost her a few swing votes as well.

Why is it that none of those things enter the equation? If Hillary and the DNC had done a better job those few votes the Russians may have influenced wouldn't have mattered at all. That election was Hillary's to lose, and by golly, she pulled it off.

Gotta love how you seem so proud of your broken logic. "Guys, if they'd just got gud then this whole Russia interfering in our elections wouldn't even matter!"

So what if alone the Russian work directly was responsible for the loss, would you be willing to do something about it then? Its not like we'd undo the election even if it had been proven ironclad that Turmp had conspired with the Russians. Hell, I'm pretty sure he could have admitted it and people like you would be coming up with every excuse for why that doesn't even matter.

We know, irrefutably that Russia worked to interfere in our election (literally the only two people that dispute that are Turmp and Putin). Nothing meaningful has been done about it, and the person that was made President in that election has done so many things in deference to Russia, that it triggered investigations (which are not over if I'm not mistaken) into him being an active agent of the Russian government by our intelligence agencies. But yes, if the Dems would just win, then all these blatantly illegal things the Republicans are doing to win elections wouldn't matter! Nevermind that's kinda exactly the issue.

Granted, no one on here ever accused you of being smart, but do you even ever listen to yourself? Look, we get it, you're old and will be dead soon so you don't care about the future. Just hope that your attitude doesn't clap back on you hard before you kick it.

 

[Bitek]

Trump is a proven cheat, liar and a coward.

So far, all the report has proven is that he's merely a useful idiot of the Russian empire, rather than an active agent.

Trump's behavior is almost even more inexplicable, given he brought all this on him with his mouth, rash decisions, and overall shady behavior.

I still want to know what exactly the Russians were up to, and still up to. The fact that we've lost focus on that is dangerous.

 

[darkswordsman17]

They do! All I meant by it was if you held everything else constant and removed the Russian influence campaign she probably wins. The same is likely true for those other factors too (especially Comey). The Russian campaign was a crime though, which seems relevant.

If this were the 1980s it would be an act of war and would have led to actual war. Now, Republicans are super ok with it.

Give it time, they'll openly brag about it and guarantee it will escalate from here as they have faced very little consequences for it. The only ones that have are the idiots that just wanted to cling on. The actual politicians themselves got away with it.

Just wait til the bellyaching when our actual allies decide to start doing that seeing it as the only way to properly work with the US government. Then conservatives will care about it and they'll decry it as the worst thing that could ever happen.

 

[ivwshane]

Anyone with half a brain knows that Hillary lost due to democrats not showing to the polls - Not Republicans showing.

So if you are to insinuate that Russians played a part in the election, you would have to insinuate that they convinced the retarded democrat populace.

Yeah I'm not sure what point you think you are making but if you think Democrats are immune to propaganda I've got news for you. Not only did some former Obama voters vote for trump but it's also likely all of the previously mentioned "Hillary issues" suppressed the Democrat vote and increased the Republican vote. Its also been reported that the Russians specifically used pro Bernie propaganda including things like the DNC sabotaged Bernie.

 

[TheVrolok]

Yeah I'm not sure what point you think you are making but if you think Democrats are immune to propaganda I've got news for you. Not only did some former Obama voters vote for trump but it's also likely all of the previously mentioned "Hillary issues" suppressed the Democrat vote and increased the Republican vote. Its also been reported that the Russians specifically used pro Bernie propaganda including things like the DNC sabotaged Bernie.

Really demonstrates tribalism, no? Russians influenced Americans in a concerted effort to undermine the election, but many of them were Dems sooo.... lulz!

Really weird.

 

[Starbuck1975]

But they did make it seem the choice was being a shit sandwich and a turd sandwich.

It was. In 2016, 54% of voters had a negative opinion of Clinton and 58% for Trump. All prior elections, the candidates floated in the low 40s.

These were two least liked candidates in recent history.

 

[ivwshane]

Really demonstrates tribalism, no? Russians influenced Americans in a concerted effort to undermine the election, but many of them were Dems sooo.... lulz!

Really weird.

Its very weird. You'd think all Americans would would be up in arms that a country like Russia sought to influence our election and manipulate Americans.

But apparently party before country has been engrained into the rights programming for so long that they no longer have even a hint of concern for their country.

 

[brandonbull]

Not in the slightest. I have expected it for some time. Mueller is a conservative and punted the issue just like the Supreme court always does on hot potato issues. He chose to protect the institution. It will now be up to the people, and the congress to deal with the issue. I expect the congress to punt the issue too. Everybody covers their own ass rather that save the country. Democracy or fascism, the elites will still have a job. You back the most worthless President the country has ever seen out of party loyalty. You are as worthless as the rest. But it's not your fault. You are a sleep walking programmed machine and none of it was your own doing. You would have dies of psychic trauma had you not broken. You survived, but as a machine. It's no longer necessary because everything you seek to protect yourself from has already happened. Try to relax and be happy.

Fret not. I'm sure the dream team of Adam Schiff, Rashida Tlaib, and Maxine Waters will show those special counsel newbies how you perform a federal and international investigation.

 

[TheVrolok]

Its very weird. You'd think all Americans would would be up in arms that a country like Russia sought to influence our election and manipulate Americans.

But apparently party before country has been engrained into the rights programming for so long that they no longer have even a hint of concern for their country.

Honestly, that's one of the things that has struck me so soundly over the last few years. The amount of reported Republicans who say things like, "Well, even if Russia did interfere, we do it sometimes, too, so it's okay."

Like what the fuck? Really?

 

[Sunburn74]

Honestly, that's one of the things that has struck me so soundly over the last few years. The amount of reported Republicans who say things like, "Well, even if Russia did interfere, we do it sometimes, too, so it's okay."

Like what the fuck? Really?

i think it basically is proof that regardless of the outcome if it wasn't positive for republicans they wouldnt accept it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Fret not. I'm sure the dream team of Adam Schiff, Rashida Tlaib, and Maxine Waters will show those special counsel newbies how you perform a federal and international investigation.

Those political things that go bump in the night like octopoid Democrats, are all the result of ancient fears that can no longer harm you but can make you miserable with rage. Not fretting is how those monsters appear, so you haven't taken your own advise.

 

[Moonbeam]

I have heard two things I seek more understanding of. One is that Barr said in front of congress Barr that dangling pardons was a criminal offense and Trump dangled pardons. The other is that Barr claimed that Trump didn't collude with the Russians as in Russian government when it was never the Russian government involved but people working for them outside of official status.

 

[Greenman]

They do! All I meant by it was if you held everything else constant and removed the Russian influence campaign she probably wins. The same is likely true for those other factors too (especially Comey). The Russian campaign was a crime though, which seems relevant.

Thank you for clarifying, and I agree with you.

 

[Jhhnn]

Thank you for clarifying, and I agree with you.

So you agree that the Russians put Trump over the top? Or what?

 

[Greenman]

You realize he was being sarcastic right?



Gotta love how you seem so proud of your broken logic. "Guys, if they'd just got gud then this whole Russia interfering in our elections wouldn't even matter!"

So what if alone the Russian work directly was responsible for the loss, would you be willing to do something about it then? Its not like we'd undo the election even if it had been proven ironclad that Turmp had conspired with the Russians. Hell, I'm pretty sure he could have admitted it and people like you would be coming up with every excuse for why that doesn't even matter.

We know, irrefutably that Russia worked to interfere in our election (literally the only two people that dispute that are Turmp and Putin). Nothing meaningful has been done about it, and the person that was made President in that election has done so many things in deference to Russia, that it triggered investigations (which are not over if I'm not mistaken) into him being an active agent of the Russian government by our intelligence agencies. But yes, if the Dems would just win, then all these blatantly illegal things the Republicans are doing to win elections wouldn't matter! Nevermind that's kinda exactly the issue.

Granted, no one on here ever accused you of being smart, but do you even ever listen to yourself? Look, we get it, you're old and will be dead soon so you don't care about the future. Just hope that your attitude doesn't clap back on you hard before you kick it.

From a single track view I can see that logic, but that's not the entire story and anyone with a room temperature IQ can figure it out. You're fixated on a boogie man so you have someone to blame for Hillary's loss. I get that transference, but it's a fundamentally flawed view because it's just a hand full of pixels from the entire picture.
On to the Russian interference. How do we stop it? What mechanism can be put in place that will insure the Russians (or anyone else) aren't spreading lies? I know of two ways that would work and neither one one of them will ever be implemented. So tell me smart one, what's the answer?

 

[Greenman]

So you agree that the Russians put Trump over the top? Or what?

I agree that all of those things had an impact, some larger than others.

 

[Jhhnn]

Its very weird. You'd think all Americans would would be up in arms that a country like Russia sought to influence our election and manipulate Americans.

But apparently party before country has been engrained into the rights programming for so long that they no longer have even a hint of concern for their country.

Their capacity for introspection is very limited. They can stand shoulder to shoulder with white supremacists & Russian agents in support of Trump & not see that they're being chumped. Bitter Bernie supporters can't see it, either.

 

[pmv]

Honestly, that's one of the things that has struck me so soundly over the last few years. The amount of reported Republicans who say things like, "Well, even if Russia did interfere, we do it sometimes, too, so it's okay."

Like what the fuck? Really?

Though you don't do it "sometimes" you've been doing it relentlessly on an industrial scale for many decades. Both the US state and the US rich as a class.

I mean, that very definitely includes Russia itself - the US actively supported Yeltsin, cheering him on and channeling cash to him, when he was firing tank shells at his own parliament. At least Trump hasn't shelled Congress yet.

And, along with many other rich guys, the American citizen (not Australian, not for a long time) Rupert Murdoch has worked tirelessly and ruthlessly to influence elections in the UK for my entire lifetime. Prime Ministers and opposition leaders alike have kowtowed to him and been terrified of upsetting him.

Damn, I keep trying to stay quiet on this because I do not want to echo conservatives on it, but, really, there is a huge irony about the Russian interference argument. Whatever there was is nothing compared to the track record of the US, under both major parties.

And I really don't see why such interference is supposed to be so new or shocking. This is how politics works in the capitalist west and always has done.

If going on about Russian interference was a successful political strategy, if it were having results via appealing to the patriotism of voters, that would be one thing, and entirely justified, but it doesn't seem to be working so far. So I can't help but feel skeptical about it.

 

[TheVrolok]

Though you don't do it "sometimes" you've been doing it relentlessly on an industrial scale for many decades. Both the US state and the US rich as a class.

I mean, that very definitely includes Russia itself - the US actively supported Yeltsin, cheering him on and channeling cash to him, when he was firing tank shells at his own parliament. At least Trump hasn't shelled Congress yet.

And, along with many other rich guys, the American citizen (not Australian, not for a long time) Rupert Murdoch has worked tirelessly and ruthlessly to influence elections in the UK for my entire lifetime. Prime Ministers and opposition leaders alike have kowtowed to him and been terrified of upsetting him.

Damn, I keep trying to stay quiet on this because I do not want to echo conservatives on it, but, really, there is a huge irony about the Russian interference argument. Whatever there was is nothing compared to the track record of the US, under both major parties.

And I really don't see why such interference is supposed to be so new or shocking. This is how politics works in the capitalist west and always has done.

If going on about Russian interference was a successful political strategy, if it were having results via appealing to the patriotism of voters, that would be one thing, and entirely justified, but it doesn't seem to be working so far. So I can't help but feel skeptical about it.

I don't disagree with you at all, and would never claim we don't do it all the time. I'm just comfortable with that hypocrisy. I'm OK saying that it's ok when we get influence others in our interest, and not ok when others influence us against our interests. There are certainly limits to what I would be comfortable with (assassination of foreign leaders, for example), and I don't pretend it's an ethically ambiguous position to hold.

The world is a dirty place and I don't mind playing in the mud to a degree, when it serves us.

 

[zinfamous]

Wasn’t staggering in the least bit. Growing up in NY, Trump has always been a known entity. What is staggering is that it took a special counsel investigation to expose what any Howard Stern listener already knew.

I was referring to "not enough political teeth to take down Trump" [for a historic number of now-proven impeachable offenses, regardless of the Mueller report final summary]

That, in itself, is staggering--in the sense that it is absolutely pathetic for us to admit, much less accept.

 

[fskimospy]

Though you don't do it "sometimes" you've been doing it relentlessly on an industrial scale for many decades. Both the US state and the US rich as a class.

I mean, that very definitely includes Russia itself - the US actively supported Yeltsin, cheering him on and channeling cash to him, when he was firing tank shells at his own parliament. At least Trump hasn't shelled Congress yet.

And, along with many other rich guys, the American citizen (not Australian, not for a long time) Rupert Murdoch has worked tirelessly and ruthlessly to influence elections in the UK for my entire lifetime. Prime Ministers and opposition leaders alike have kowtowed to him and been terrified of upsetting him.

Damn, I keep trying to stay quiet on this because I do not want to echo conservatives on it, but, really, there is a huge irony about the Russian interference argument. Whatever there was is nothing compared to the track record of the US, under both major parties.

And I really don't see why such interference is supposed to be so new or shocking. This is how politics works in the capitalist west and always has done.

If going on about Russian interference was a successful political strategy, if it were having results via appealing to the patriotism of voters, that would be one thing, and entirely justified, but it doesn't seem to be working so far. So I can't help but feel skeptical about it.

I don’t get what’s ironic about this at all? That’s like saying we shouldn’t get upset if someone bombs us because we bomb other people all the time. Of course we should!

From a US standpoint it’s entirely irrelevant if we run influence operations in other countries because for the US the standard of judgment is ‘is this good for us’, not ‘is this hypocritical’. Same goes for every country.