South Africa to amend constitution to allow land expropriation

[UglyCasanova]

You referenced articles about Zimbabwe. Again, what does Zimbabwe have to do with South Africa? Why would you think the S. African government, people or economy is similar to Zimbabwe?

Because the same thing is happening, are you dense? In Zimbabwe the land that was producing was seized and given to people who had little knowledge on how to properly manage it and thus became unproductive and tanked their economy. The land is being seized in South Africa now and it’s not clear that the people who it’s being given to are experienced and managing vast farmland. According to Vic it’s because their black. To me I worry about lack of experience and knowledge of modern agricultural technology. Hopefully I’m wrong.

 

[glenn1]

well, his proposal is to auction it off, not hand it over. The assumption is that bidders in an auction have a properly-invested interest in making the land work.

However, it also couldn't be that simple. I think it's pretty clear that any such auctions would just go to the nearest white-owned landholders that aren't dead, being they would have the capital to purchase it. Bidders would have to be within a limited class of eligible bidders, perhaps some subsidies, and a timeline of 3, 5, 10 years or whatever to be met--incentives and goals to meet with the land--in order to hold it, lest it become available for auction again.

Hmm, maybe put them up for auction, but the initial bids would be for leases-to-own, where the owner needs to meet incentives that prove interest and ability to work the land, in order to convert the lease into a deed?

You have already probably put more thought into how to make this work in those couple sentences than the SA government has altogether.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Take it to the mods and let me know what they say. Considering the behavior of some of other posters here, for example how Incorruptible is accusing posters of being pedophiles in his Tommy Robinson thread, I'm thinking that you might want to let go of those pearls and stop protesting so much.

That’s between the mods and him. As far as I’m concerned you’re a pos for misrepresenting me knowingly and saying I said anything of the sort that it’s because they’re black.

 

[zinfamous]

If not racist, then the result of an overly simplistic view of the situation. Modern farming is incredibly complicated and requires significant education and training in order to be successful. If the black farmers were to fail, it wouldn't be because they are black, as a few posters are clearly implying, but because they weren't properly prepared for the task.
I still disagree with expropriation though, because it doesn't the solve the core problem, which is separatism. Integration is the only lasting solution.

This. I still like the auction idea, if limited, maybe, to experienced SA's that had long worked the very same lands. Of course, managing and working the land isn't quite the same thing, but there's certainly going to be enough smart and industrious people in that pool of farmers that will certainly succeed if given a fair chance to. There can be no ignoring that much of the population is just so far behind in the skills and education needed to work in certain sectors, and this was all by design of the colonialists.

 

[Vic]

That’s between the mods and him. As far as I’m concerned you’re a pos for misrepresenting me knowingly and saying I said anything of the sort that it’s because they’re black.

I can't misrepresent something you forced to me to guess in the first place.

 

[emperus]

Because the same thing is happening, are you dense? In Zimbabwe the land that was producing was seized and given to people who had little knowledge on how to properly manage it and thus became unproductive and tanked their economy. The land is being seized in South Africa now and it’s not clear that the people who it’s being given to are experienced and managing vast farmland. According to Vic it’s because their black. To me I worry about lack of experience and knowledge of modern agricultural technology. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Why would you think that black South Africans would lack experience and knowledge of modern agricultural technology just because Zimbabweans were esp. given the difference in their economies.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Why would you think that black South Africans would lack experience and knowledge of modern agricultural technology just because Zimbabweans were esp. given the difference in their economies.

It has nothing to do with race, person, etc.. It is simply education. As I pointed out earlier, there is college education in agriculture for a reason.

I honestly don't give a flying shit about who is going to replace the farm land - my main concern is if they have the education necessary. It's not that they aren't capable, it's strictly education though - if you weren't previously educated on the matter do you think they will invest in courses to learn? Something tells me no.

Something tells me someone that IS educated in agriculture probably already has a farm and is actively utilizing their skills. So by all means - if they can pluck out and find some agriculture trained and educated people to do the replacement then that may make some sense for an argument vs. randomly giving people land and telling them to use it.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Again, what do you do when the people it is handed over to are unable to successful keep the farm land growing? Think about the bigger picture instead of just "It's not fair that they have their land". I'm worried more about the survival and starvation of a country than whom owns some bare farming land.

Those who own the land can sell it to new owners when they retire. Otherwise, when they die, it will go to auction and other people can try to run it. Doing it this way means it'll take decades to go to new owners. I believ it would mitigate most of the risks associated with "ohh no all the food crops are failed because nobody knows how to farm."

 

[Vic]

Why would you think that black South Africans would lack experience and knowledge of modern agricultural technology just because Zimbabweans were esp. given the difference in their economies.

He needs to see the college transcripts.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I can't misrepresent something you forced to me to guess in the first place.

No, I didn’t. I’ve used what happened in Zimbabwe due to lack of knowledge and experience resulting in huge crop loss as a warning for South Africa, and supported with articles saying exactly that. Your knowingly saying “I dunno what you’re sayin” is trying for an easy out to post false personal attacks. Either you’re an idiot or a liar, I’m assumig the latter.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

No, I didn’t. I’ve used what happened in Zimbabwe due to lack of knowledge and experience resulting in huge crop loss as a warning for South Africa, and supported with articles saying exactly that. Your knowingly saying “I dunno what you’re sayin” is trying for an easy out to post false personal attacks. Either you’re an idiot or a liar, I’m assumig the latter.

I'd bet it's both.

 

[emperus]

It has nothing to do with race, person, etc.. It is simply education. As I pointed out earlier, there is college education in agriculture for a reason.
I honestly don't give a flying shit about who is going to replace the farm land - my main concern is if they have the education necessary. It's not that they aren't capable, it's strictly education though - if you weren't previously educated on the matter do you think they will invest in courses to learn? Something tells me no.

So you don't think there are any black South Africans who have went to college and studied Agriculture?

Something tells me someone that IS educated in agriculture probably already has a farm and is actively utilizing their skills.

So everyone who graduates college with a degree in Agriculture in the US owns a farm?

 

[Vic]

No, I didn’t. I’ve used what happened in Zimbabwe due to lack of knowledge and experience resulting in huge crop loss as a warning for South Africa, and supported with articles saying exactly that. Your knowingly saying “I dunno what you’re sayin” is trying for an easy out to post false personal attacks. Either you’re an idiot or a liar, I’m assumig the latter.

You do this in every thread you make. Present a known white supremacist talking point and then pretend you didn't.
So why don't you explain, other than what happened in Zimbabwe, why do you assume that these black people will lack the necessary education to be successful?

And I do find it hilarious that the same poster who goes on and on about defending free speech, even vile and defamatory speech like Alex Jones, is trying to suppress my speech here.

 

[Atreus21]

How can you be a native of South Africa and not have black African ancestry?

By being born there, perhaps?

 

[Vic]

I'd bet it's both.

I bet if I were both, you would have been able to come up with a better comeback.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I bet it I were both, you would have been able to come up with a better comeback.

I bet it I were too

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

By being born there, perhaps?

Like *Over 9000.

The fact that someone had to say this is mind boggling.

 

[Vic]

I bet it I were too

Ooh, an auto-correct Nazi..

Good job!

 

[UglyCasanova]

You do this in every thread you make. Present a known white supremacist talking point and then pretend you didn't.
So why don't you explain, other than what happened in Zimbabwe, why do you assume that these black people will lack the necessary education to be successful?

And I do find it hilarious that the same poster who goes on and on about defending free speech, even vile and defamatory speech like Alex Jones, is trying to suppress my speech here.

I’m not trying to suppress your speech I’m saying your a POS for posting a knowingly false personal attack. I’m sorry you don’t like the reasons behind my argument, but your jump to try and spin it to me saying it’s because they’re black is knowingly false, so fuck you.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I bet if I were both, you would have been able to come up with a better comeback.

I'd bet that people have to dumb things down so that you might understand them. In this case, it worked.

 

[Jaskalas]

How can you be a native of South Africa and not have black African ancestry?

I'm sure American KKK / Nazis ask similar questions regarding Americans. It stinks of racism to not adopt all people of a nation. To actually care about the color of their skin.

It's not about taxing them, it's about correcting a wrong by redistributing land that was unjustly appropriated.

Taxing them means their "wealth" becomes shared... as a nation's "wealth". That which was unjust become a vehicle to pay a form of restitution. If making them pay is not enough, then what is the goal? Does it stop with taking land? Makes me wonder what South Africa actually wants, and if their ideas are compatible with concepts of Democracies and Human Rights.

 

[Vic]

I’m not trying to suppress your speech I’m saying your a POS for posting a knowingly false personal attack. I’m sorry you don’t like the reasons behind my argument, but your jump to try and spin it to me saying it’s because they’re black is knowingly false, so fuck you.

But Alex Jones' entire business model is knowingly making false personal attacks, like accusing the parents of murdered children of being 'crisis actors,' or falsely accusing small businesses of running child sex trafficking rings, and you defend that endlessly as free speech and worry about him being de-platformed.
But I hurt your precious feelings and all of that unlimited free speech talk goes right out the window, huh? I guess it's different when it happens to you, right?

 

[Vic]

I'd bet that people have to dumb things down so that you might understand them. In this case, it worked.

You have no clue what worked here.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

South Africa is such a shitshow lately.

On the news (here in NL) I saw Zuma blame power outages on apartheid. I wonder how long they'll be able to go on with the extreme corruption and incompetence.

 

[KMFJD]

SA Government needs to back these proposals up with education, loans to these farmers will help as well. The majority of the farm workers in SA are black, they know how to farm but require help with finance, long term planning and loans for equipment/fuel/seed, and where does this expropriation stop? Land taken from 1913>? 1800's? How far back are we willing to go?