South Africa to amend constitution to allow land expropriation

[emperus]

Not yet.

Again S. Africa is not Zimbabwe. You should look up the economies of of both countries. And truthfully, I find the insinuation weaved through these comments that non white South Africans aren't capable of running these farms insulting and racist.

 

[HomerJS]

Meanwhile Trump stirring up his base with fake stories from white nationalist groups and Fox News. Distract with shiny objects about those evil people of color


https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/e8563fab-999e-345f-b28d-557a127e1095/trump’s-tweet-echoing-white.html

 

[Vic]

Again S. Africa is not Zimbabwe. You should look up the economies of of both countries. And truthfully, I find the insinuation weaved through these comments that non white South Africans aren't capable of running these farms insulting and racist.

If not racist, then the result of an overly simplistic view of the situation. Modern farming is incredibly complicated and requires significant education and training in order to be successful. If the black farmers were to fail, it wouldn't be because they are black, as a few posters are clearly implying, but because they weren't properly prepared for the task.
I still disagree with expropriation though, because it doesn't the solve the core problem, which is separatism. Integration is the only lasting solution.

 

[Genx87]

Is there any reason to believe this won't end in tragedy for the entire country?

None, when has the state stealing the land ever ended well for the majority? This one is another example of a govt using race as a premise for their horrible policy. The irony is while the govt steals from the white farmers. They do not plan to give it to blacks, but instead keep it for themselves. This is going to end horribly for south africa and its border countries imo.

 

[emperus]

If not racist, then the result of an overly simplistic view of the situation. Modern farming is incredibly complicated and requires significant education and training in order to be successful. If the black farmers were to fail, it wouldn't be because they are black, as a few posters are clearly implying, but because they weren't properly prepared for the task.
I still disagree with expropriation though, because it doesn't the solve the core problem, which is separatism. Integration is the only lasting solution.

There may be a downturn in production or efficiency in the short term, but I am sure thee are enough capable non-white South Africans to eventually figure it out.

As to expropriation, I think it is a good start. The fact that there is an African country where the black citizens own a fraction of the countries land is unacceptable.

 

[Commodus]

My girlfriend is South African (British South African, to be exact), and she sees this as a complex problem. She isn't a fan of expropriation and would ultimately prefer more of an emphasis on integration, but she also understands where black Africans are coming from -- they were completely marginalized during much of her childhood, and they still are to some degree today.

 

[emperus]

None, when has the state stealing the land ever ended well for the majority? This one is another example of a govt using race as a premise for their horrible policy. The irony is while the govt steals from the white farmers. They do not plan to give it to blacks, but instead keep it for themselves. This is going to end horribly for south africa and its border countries imo.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you don't know the history of S. Africa. You should read it's history.

 

[UglyCasanova]

If the black farmers were to fail, it wouldn't be because they are black, as a few posters are clearly implying

Show where anyone has implied such. Anyone.

 

[Jhhnn]

Meanwhile Trump stirring up his base with fake stories from white nationalist groups and Fox News. Distract with shiny objects about those evil people of color


https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/e8563fab-999e-345f-b28d-557a127e1095/trump’s-tweet-echoing-white.html

The weasel words about the "large scale killing of (white) farmers" are a lie intended to inflame racist sentiment in this country.

 

[Genx87]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you don't know the history of S. Africa. You should read it's history.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have a point here. So go ahead and make it.

 

[glenn1]

There may be a downturn in production or efficiency in the short term, but I am sure thee are enough capable non-white South Africans to eventually figure it out.

Should the SA government also expropriate the Koeberg nuclear power plant under the theory there are "enough capable non-white South Africans to eventually figure it out"?

 

[UNCjigga]

Should the SA government also expropriate the Koeberg nuclear power plant under the theory there are "enough capable non-white South Africans to eventually figure it out"?

Well there's a false equivalence if I ever saw one. I would assume that nuclear power plants would be built on public land owned by the government, or else private land that was purchased at market value. If that land was purchased from a white landowner whose ancestors stole that land, then I guess they would owe reparations if SA decided to open that route for civil suits. I don't think nuclear power plants and farms can be equated as far as owning the land and operating what sits on the land.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Should the SA government also expropriate the Koeberg nuclear power plant under the theory there are "enough capable non-white South Africans to eventually figure it out"?

Hah! Nice try. Thats a way more specialized knowledge, so it's not the same thing. It's not like they have degrees in agriculture or anything....

EDIT: Did I call it? Or did I call it...

 

[Vic]

Show where anyone has implied such. Anyone.

I've already told you that when you chose not to explain your position that I'm just going to infer it as I see fit.
So when you say that the black farmers are going to fail, without providing any rationale for why you believe they will fail, then I'm going to infer that the key word there is "black."

 

[emperus]

Should the SA government also expropriate the Koeberg nuclear power plant under the theory there are "enough capable non-white South Africans to eventually figure it out"?

Lol. This is what you call an argument?
But, in the long term yes, I think the government should expropriate all industries owned by white South Africans.

 

[emperus]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have a point here. So go ahead and make it.

The point is, your post reads like you don't know South African history and why this is even an issue to begin with.

 

[Jaskalas]

South Africa is not Zimbabwe. And I'm all for reclaiming all property stolen by colonization.

As someone else said, wouldn't it just be wiser to tax the farmers?

 

[Atreus21]

As to expropriation, I think it is a good start. The fact that there is an African country where the black citizens own a fraction of the countries land is unacceptable.

Yeah, because if you're not black, you can't be African. Doesn't matter if you're a native of Africa - what matters is skin color.

Freaking brilliant.

 

[emperus]

Yeah, because if you're not black, you can't be African. Doesn't matter if you're a native of Africa - what matters is skin color.

Freaking brilliant.

How can you be a native of South Africa and not have black African ancestry?

 

[emperus]

As someone else said, wouldn't it just be wiser to tax the farmers?

It's not about taxing them, it's about correcting a wrong by redistributing land that was unjustly appropriated.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I've already told you that when you chose not to explain your position that I'm just going to infer it as I see fit.
So when you say that the black farmers are going to fail, without providing any rationale for why you believe they will fail, then I'm going to infer that the key word there is "black."

I’ve stated and linked articles showing Zimbabwe resulted in disaster since the people the farms were given to lacked the expertise to run them. You chose to ignore that, and then throw out bullshit that I’m saying they can’t run it because they are black. That’s an inflammatory, knowingly false personal attack in my opinion and you’re a POS for doing so and deserve to be banned.

 

[glenn1]

I’ve stated and linked articles showing Zimbabwe resulted in disaster since the people the farms were given to lacked the expertise to run them. You chose to ignore that, and then throw out bullshit that I’m saying they can’t run it because they are black. That’s an inflammatory, knowingly false personal attack in my opinion and you’re a POS for doing so and deserve to be banned.

It should be relatively easy for him to provide a news story or link to an official policy plan of the SA government to ensure the farms are being handed over to folks fully possessing the knowledge, training, experience, and capital/funding sources to successfully run the farms and incorporating the lessons learned from the Zimbabwe example. I doubt such exists, or that @emperus really cares either way.

 

[emperus]

I’ve stated and linked articles showing Zimbabwe resulted in disaster since the people the farms were given to lacked the expertise to run them. You chose to ignore that, and then throw out bullshit that I’m saying they can’t run it because they are black. That’s an inflammatory, knowingly false personal attack in my opinion and you’re a POS for doing so and deserve to be banned.

You referenced articles about Zimbabwe. Again, what does Zimbabwe have to do with South Africa? Why would you think the S. African government, people or economy is similar to Zimbabwe?

 

[Vic]

I’ve stated and linked articles showing Zimbabwe resulted in disaster since the people the farms were given to lacked the expertise to run them. You chose to ignore that, and then throw out bullshit that I’m saying they can’t run it because they are black. That’s an inflammatory, knowingly false personal attack in my opinion and you’re a POS for doing so and deserve to be banned.

Take it to the mods and let me know what they say. Considering the behavior of some of other posters here, for example how Incorruptible is accusing posters of being pedophiles in his Tommy Robinson thread, I'm thinking that you might want to let go of those pearls and stop protesting so much.

 

[zinfamous]

Again, what do you do when the people it is handed over to are unable to successful keep the farm land growing? Think about the bigger picture instead of just "It's not fair that they have their land". I'm worried more about the survival and starvation of a country than whom owns some bare farming land.

well, his proposal is to auction it off, not hand it over. The assumption is that bidders in an auction have a properly-invested interest in making the land work.

However, it also couldn't be that simple. I think it's pretty clear that any such auctions would just go to the nearest white-owned landholders that aren't dead, being they would have the capital to purchase it. Bidders would have to be within a limited class of eligible bidders, perhaps some subsidies, and a timeline of 3, 5, 10 years or whatever to be met--incentives and goals to meet with the land--in order to hold it, lest it become available for auction again.

Hmm, maybe put them up for auction, but the initial bids would be for leases-to-own, where the owner needs to meet incentives that prove interest and ability to work the land, in order to convert the lease into a deed?