Something to consider when pushing housing density.

[Moonbeam]

Denser construction allows more access to nature, not less.

Single family zoning forces sprawl, which denies access to nature. Little patches of green in front and behind a sprawl home can’t compare to the real parks you can go to in NYC.

Funny enough I just heard a crow call and these are the thoughts that were triggered. I used to feed the crows chicken scraps at by back porch. I had a family of three and a rookery not very far away. In the evening you can watch hundreds of them flying in to nest for the night. But the chicken scraps attracted raccoons and feral cats and the cats brought kittens, two of which I was able to save as I believe all of the others and their parents are dead owing to construction in the area. So owing to crows I get to have warm feet at night and the joy of loving something once wild than now loves me and whose antics tickle me pink. Once a falcon came to live in a redwood in my yard and herons in another tree. Geese fly over regularly announcing their flight with loud honking. It has been a while, however since I've smelled a skunk. Long ago when I would sit on my front porch tying my shoes to go to work I could hear lions roar. What you call scraps are precious to me. Everywhere I go there I am. Whoever said that beauty in in the eye of the beholder had no idea how true that is.

There is a city where I live that set out to murder the Geese, too much nature, it seems on people's feet. Too inconvenient for people to handle so off with their heads. Not to worry, life on earth is experiencing a mass extinction.

 

[Moonbeam]

If you don’t build build housing that the rich want they will find another house to buy, one that a less rich person could have afforded until they were outbid.

Rich people do not live in their cars until a suitably luxurious building is constructed for them.

Probably one reason why people waste their lives seeking wealth. They learned to be first class players using the rules of the system, a system that creates incentives to waste one's life.

 

[JD50]

Honestly it's amazing how so many people act like market forces and supply and demand somehow stop existing when it comes to housing.

 

[Moonbeam]

You should probably go live in the outdoors. You know, for maximum benefit.

I call nature what is when one is not. To be the universe I simply have to disappear. I know what that means by experience. I believe for some it is a permanent state because what they say rings true in my ears. It's easier to trust if you already have nothing to lose.

 

[Moonbeam]

Honestly it's amazing how so many people act like market forces and supply and demand somehow stop existing when it comes to housing.

Market forces are a product of the system. They are only real because you believe in the system. You create your own truth, a truth only real in your imagination, maintained there by motivated belief. Your castles are built on sand.

 

[fskimospy]

Honestly it's amazing how so many people act like market forces and supply and demand somehow stop existing when it comes to housing.

I have had multiple people tell me we need to stop building houses so that prices won’t go up. I don’t know what to say to that.

 

[fskimospy]

Market forces are a product of the system. They are only real because you believe in the system. You create your own truth, a truth only real in your imagination, maintained there by motivated belief. Your castles are built on sand.

While it is true we could resolve issues through killing each other in many ways that’s just a different market - a market of violence.

 

[Zorba]

Speaking of purposefully misconstruing someone’s point literally no one is arguing for building a skyscraper in the middle of nowhere and you know this.

It cheaper to build low density than high density, disregarding land costs, which isn't what you said. Medium density is the cheapest build cost.

 

[fskimospy]

It cheaper to build low density than high density, disregarding land costs, which isn't what you said. Medium density is the cheapest build cost.

Since you would never disregard land costs under any circumstances for obvious reasons this is a pointless distinction. There was also no qualifier for disregarding land costs because again, it’s a facially silly idea.

 

[sandorski]

In CA, the bills that Newsom just signed are giving "density bonuses up to 100%" provided a new development has a certain percentage of low income housing, and also is within x distance of a rail line or public transit hub. It's pretty targeted rather than just getting rid of all zoning and density restrictions.

The Government of BC recently also passed some Zoning laws meant to solve Housing issues. The vid talks about it, but it also discusses Vancouver's transit, it seemed relevant to your discussion.

 

[Zorba]

Since you would never disregard land costs under any circumstances for obvious reasons this is a pointless distinction. There was also no qualifier for disregarding land costs because again, it’s a facially silly idea.

OMG, you are just talking in circles. Greenman was very clearly talking about build costs. You brought in land, I said it was still cheaper to build low density on cheap land and you had a come back for that, so I went back to build prices, and now you want to include land again.

Building more than moderate density is more expensive until land prices go very high, otherwise build low density and moderate density is cheaper. Basically what Greenman was saying.

 

[fskimospy]

OMG, you are just talking in circles. Greenman was very clearly talking about build costs. You brought in land, I said it was still cheaper to build low density on cheap land and you had a come back for that, so I went back to build prices, and now you want to include land again.

Building more than moderate density is more expensive until land prices go very high, otherwise build low density and moderate density is cheaper. Basically what Greenman was saying.

Because both things are completely inseparable.

This is so dumb. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

 

[sdifox]

Mom's basement?

I don't remember seeing any basement without windows here. Mom's basement included.

 

[sdifox]

I call nature what is when one is not. To be the universe I simply have to disappear. I know what that means by experience. I believe for some it is a permanent state because what they say rings true in my ears. It's easier to trust if you already have nothing to lose.

En anglaise s'il vous plait.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Speaking of purposefully misconstruing someone’s point literally no one is arguing for building a skyscraper in the middle of nowhere and you know this.

But that's precisely what's needed to address the original point of this thread. Sprawl destroys nature, to which your point was to build more density.

 

[fskimospy]

But that's precisely what's needed to address the original point of this thread. Sprawl destroys nature, to which your point was to build more density.

So density preserves nature.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So density preserves nature.

If it didn't result in further development sure, always does though. Isolated arcologies are the actual answer here but humans will never stand for such a thing.

 

[Brainonska511]

This whole thread is basically an argument of this meme:

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

This whole thread is basically an argument of this meme:
View attachment 89873

Cuz the part that misses is, that apartment complex attracts an entire shopping and eating district, followed by a moderate sized starter home community, followed by a gated community with homes for 3-5x the cost, followed by a higher end shopping and eating district, followed by a commuter town to facilitate it (since nothing in the area is affordable anymore), followed by the original apartment complex torn down for a business high-rise. Oh and the trees have been gone for years.

 

[fskimospy]

If it didn't result in further development sure, always does though. Isolated arcologies are the actual answer here but humans will never stand for such a thing.

Where are people supposed to live?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Where are people supposed to live?

Are you talking about an arcology? They live inside. What were you referring to?

 

[fskimospy]

It’s always incumbent homeowners telling the rest of the country how to live. Why? Because they don’t have to face the consequences.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you talking about an arcology? They live inside. What were you referring to?

Development is how people are supposed to live. Houses - real houses.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It’s always incumbent homeowners telling the rest of the country how to live. Why? Because they don’t have to face the consequences.

Nice generalization but I'm not a home owner, not the one I live in at least. Renter actively trying to re-forest a property.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Development is how people are supposed to live. Houses - real houses.

I thought they needed to live in high density housing? Are you saying people are supposed to live in single family homes now?