Something to consider when pushing housing density.

[fskimospy]

Where? There's no construction being banned here. Are we talking about your city again?

Whatever city you’re in I am very confident construction outside of single family housing is banned in most of your city.

 

[fskimospy]

I would just like someone to explain to me how in defiance of the law of supply and demand building new houses makes houses more expansive.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Whatever city you’re in I am very confident construction outside of single family housing is banned in most of your city.

You'd lose that bet. We've had like 5 new apartment complexes (or extensions to existing complexes) built this year. The first picture from my series earlier is from a brand new construction.

 

[fskimospy]

You'd lose that bet. We've had like 5 new apartment complexes (or extensions to existing complexes) built this year. The first picture from my series earlier is from a brand new construction.

lol five apartment complexes. As if that’s even remotely close - this shows how you don’t understand the problem.

Tell me your city and let’s look at what percent is zoned single family.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

lol five apartment complexes. As if that’s even remotely close - this shows how you don’t understand the problem.

Tell me your city and let’s look at what percent is zoned single family.

Let's go with Tompkins county. Ithaca itself is fairly small so most normies don't live in the city (can't afford to anyway), and you're never more than 5 minutes from being outside of it anyhow.

 

[fskimospy]

Let's go with Tompkins county. Ithaca itself is fairly small so most normies don't live in the city (can't afford to anyway), and you're never more than 5 minutes from being outside of it anyhow.

Pretty sure Ithaca is nearly entirely zoned single family.

Again - the idea that you think five apartment buildings is a big deal says everything.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Pretty sure Ithaca is nearly entirely zoned single family.

Again - the idea that you think five apartment buildings is a big deal says everything.

In a city of 30k, a few hundred new units is not a small deal. In addition, the entire surrounding county is perfectly capable of accommodating dense housing. The city/county isn't restricting housing. The builders/investors are not building housing that isn't worthwhile for them to build. Maybe they need to be incentivized instead?

 

[fskimospy]

In a city of 30k, a few hundred new units is not a small deal. In addition, the entire surrounding county is perfectly capable of accommodating dense housing. The city/county isn't restricting housing. The builders/investors are not building housing that isn't worthwhile for them to build. Maybe they need to be incentivized instead?

So you’re saying there is unrestricted density in your area?

 

[K1052]

Let's go with Tompkins county. Ithaca itself is fairly small so most normies don't live in the city (can't afford to anyway), and you're never more than 5 minutes from being outside of it anyhow.

*glances at growing Ivy League university in the middle of town*

I think I've found the issue on the demand side here.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So you’re saying there is unrestricted density in your area?

I'm saying that the reason for a lack of housing isn't a lack of space, nor restrictions from local, state, or US government.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

*glances at growing Ivy League university in the middle of town*

I think I've found the issue on the demand side here.

Been growing for nearly two centuries. Poor excuse given that it's easy to track available housing and costs for actual decades.

 

[Moonbeam]

You know density makes housing cheaper, right?

Nothing cheap without reason. The horror of density is built into the price. The demand for housing goes with the desire for proximity to jobs and the less conducive to a decent life the cheaper the price.Even close to where I live there is a sewage treatment plant that can fill the local air with a certain recognizable stench. Even despite that fact the demand for housing here means that close by apartments rent for an arm and a leg. The price would plummet if people could not find jobs and the vacancy rate would skyrocket if people didn't need to work.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Mind you none of this has to do with the actual issue:

Is There a Correlation Between Inflation and Home Prices?

There is a correlation between inflation and house prices — in fact, there are correlations between inflation and any goods with a limited supply.

www.investopedia.com

Since 1963, inflation has risen 896%, while housing prices have risen by more than 2,350%. During that same time, rent rose by 892%. That means rent has held pace with inflation, while homes have seen significant price increases, even when adjusted for inflation.

 

[K1052]

Been growing for nearly two centuries. Poor excuse given that it's easy to track available housing and costs for actual decades.

Yeah but the demand is going to be a lot stronger than a typical small city. And kids attending an Ivy, especially now, are overall richer than ever before. Unless the city is zoning enough residential for the densities required to keep up with the growth (and from a cursory look they are not) the market is going to skew higher.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah but the demand is going to be a lot stronger than a typical small city. And kids attending an Ivy, especially now, are overall richer than ever before. Unless the city is zoning enough residential for the densities required to keep up with the growth (and from a cursory look they are not) the market is going to skew higher.

So you're saying that more than before, the upper class has more money available than the middle and lower class, and as such it drives prices, rather than demand from lower and middle class? Almost like universal supply and demand isn't a strict rule.

Again, there's plenty of room to build (maybe not in the city proper, but within 10 minutes there's gobs). It's just not worth building a block of 150 $1k/mo rentals when you can do 150 $3k/mo rentals, even if you're at 40-50% occupancy (lower maintenance costs).

 

[fskimospy]

So you're saying that more than before, the upper class has more money available than the middle and lower class, and as such it drives prices, rather than demand from lower and middle class? Almost like universal supply and demand isn't a strict rule.

Again, there's plenty of room to build (maybe not in the city proper, but within 10 minutes there's gobs). It's just not worth building a block of 150 $1k/mo rentals when you can do 150 $3k/mo rentals, even if you're at 40-50% occupancy (lower maintenance costs).

Yes - the upper class will come for your house instead.

 

[Moonbeam]

I mean there are thousands of people living under overpasses everywhere. There are a ton who live right by me.

@Moonbeam what you’re doing is evil. It is crazy you don’t see how much you’re hurting people. The selfishness is just off the charts. Please, be a better person.

What is the good? I told you that I felt there was wisdom in the notions mentioned in the link I gave. I said I thought it wold be good to consider such information in planning for the future. You have avoided telling me if easy and frequent access to the natural world, especially for children, might not help to promote mental health.

My opinion of your attitude toward old people who bought in high growth areas before that value was reflected in what they could afford to buy is a side issue also. I have never acted or voted as a NIMBY, I voted no on prop 13. I stay where I am for reasons other than my own. I have no say in what will happen to zoning laws where I live in the future. I suspect I will be giving my house away without spending a dime of the fast wealth it represents. I bought originally without any real interest because I could see where rents were going and I was a renter. I am here but I am not from here.

So tell me what the good is. You seem to think you know. Your personal attacks I find undignified.

 

[Moonbeam]

Every accusation a confession.

I gave you my opinion as to what I see. That is only an accusation if you feel it to be.

 

[K1052]

So you're saying that more than before, the upper class has more money available than the middle and lower class, and as such it drives prices, rather than demand from lower and middle class? Almost like universal supply and demand isn't a strict rule.

Again, there's plenty of room to build (maybe not in the city proper, but within 10 minutes there's gobs). It's just not worth building a block of 150 $1k/mo rentals when you can do 150 $3k/mo rentals, even if you're at 40-50% occupancy (lower maintenance costs).

Demand is demand.

Do you think proximity to the university is valuable?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Demand is demand.

Do you think proximity to the university is valuable?

To an extent, but at what point are you just catering to the 1% vs actually providing to the residents of the city/county? Do only the rich deserve proximity to where they work, or school?

 

[Zorba]

I have bought my house 400m from my work, 7km to a national park, 3km to the beach, 1km to my childrens school, 15km to an airport and 25km to the 2nd largest city in Denmark. It is good

"Denmark"

That's cheating.

 

[fskimospy]

To an extent, but at what point are you just catering to the 1% vs actually providing to the residents of the city/county? Do only the rich deserve proximity to where they work, or school?

Wouldn’t it make sense to make lots of housing in proximity and let the market work?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Wouldn’t it make sense to make lots of housing in proximity and let the market work?

It would. How do you ensure the builders actually build housing in a ratio that aligns with the population, rather than just building housing that caters to those to whom money matters much less? Cuz building hundreds of units that rent for $2k/mo doesn't help the lower or middle class.

 

[Zorba]

This is basic economics. Government regulation has prevented housing supply from meeting demand. Therefore housing gets more expensive.

This is true, to an extent. But prices have skyrocketed everywhere, even where there is no real government constraint. Developers on their own are never going to build enough new housing units to result in a reduction of prices or even a stop in the increase of prices.

How do you actually get developers to build housing at a rate that keeps up with demand?

 

[Zorba]

Yes, because the government constrains supply.

So yes - the rich people buy the fancy new houses and then they sell their old new houses for cheaper.

Are you saying supply and demand does not apply for housing?

You are also ignoring the fact there is an illegal cartel controlling the selling of houses.