Something to consider when pushing housing density.

[sdifox]

People imagine they can see the future as an extension of the past. The natural world as it has been is going extinct.

The development they are referring to is densification, no current green land is being touched.

 

[Moonbeam]

Or a retired person in the Bay Area who's property rich but cash poor.

Or simply empathetic. I used to work at a job that put me in contact with a large number of people who were forced out of their rentals by rising property values. I saw their fear and misery at being uprooted and scattered to the wind. I have had to deal with a lot of feelings of contempt for the capitalist system and the private ownership of wealth building via real estate speculation. I feel for those who did their duty as ordinary citizens and retired in places within their means only to have their lives ruined by people motivated by greed and cunning.

I am going to be just fine. Wherever I go there I am. Consider the Lily in the Field if you can find one.

 

[fskimospy]

When you see masses of people living beneath underpasses you should think of the poor homeowners who would have to pay property tax on their houses that have appreciated by 1000%.

 

[Moonbeam]

The development they are referring to is densification, no current green land is being touched.

This is true except when it isn't. Where I live there used to be wide open areas that are now filled with million dollar condos and 5000 a month apartments and traffic and the smell of gas up the ass. Then there are all the assholes who burn wood fires. I love wood fires too but I have neighbors.

 

[fskimospy]

This is true except when it isn't. Where I live there used to be wide open areas that are now filled with million dollar condos and 5000 a month apartments and traffic and the smell of gas up the ass. Then there are all the assholes who burn wood fires. I love wood fires too but I have neighbors.

This is the sprawl that you endorse. If you were a fan of greater density then these areas could be preserved.

 

[sdifox]

This is true except when it isn't. Where I live there used to be wide open areas that are now filled with million dollar condos and 5000 a month apartments and traffic and the smell of gas up the ass. Then there are all the assholes who burn wood fires. I love wood fires too but I have neighbors.

We have no burn orders here. Sounds like your issue is with poor governance rather than densification.

 

[fskimospy]

Or simply empathetic. I used to work at a job that put me in contact with a large number of people who were forced out of their rentals by rising property values. I saw their fear and misery at being uprooted and scattered to the wind. I have had to deal with a lot of feelings of contempt for the capitalist system and the private ownership of wealth building via real estate speculation. I feel for those who did their duty as ordinary citizens and retired in places within their means only to have their lives ruined by people motivated by greed and cunning.

I am going to be just fine. Wherever I go there I am. Consider the Lily in the Field if you can find one.

It’s amazing to me how you have the gall to talk about empathy while causing a humanitarian crisis.

Actually it’s not. People recognize suffering among people they know, others are abstract. You are causing mass human misery because you don’t know them.

 

[Moonbeam]

When you see masses of people living beneath underpasses you should think of the poor homeowners who would have to pay property tax on their houses that have appreciated by 1000%.

We need laws that allow them to move and double up with and owner or renter of their choice. Think of it as total shared community sacrifice instead of putting it all on the elderly who happened to buy where values went up 1000%.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The development they are referring to is densification, no current green land is being touched.

Speak for yourself, plenty of green land around me is being flattened, turned over, and converted into mcmansions or multistory business buildings.

 

[Moonbeam]

We have no burn orders here. Sounds like your issue is with poor governance rather than densification.

A minor side issue. Poor governance is everywhere. Gas last year was a thousand dollars a month. You know where we would be today with energy independence if big oil didn't block the way.

 

[Moonbeam]

Speak for yourself, plenty of green land around me is being flattened, turned over, and converted into mcmansions or multistory business buildings.

He is right when he is right. Some increases in density are taking place where the natural environment has already been eliminated. But nobody seems to want to address the humans are viruses issue.

 

[Vic]

We need laws that allow them to move and double up with and owner or renter of their choice. Think of it as total shared community sacrifice instead of putting it all on the elderly who happened to buy where values went up 1000%.

Or they could just sell and cash out all that equity and then move someplace they can better afford?

Subsidizing non-working people to live near employment centers at the expense of working people is insanity.
Giving such broad preference to existing homeowners just because they don't want to realize their equity gains is like the ugliest crony capitalism.
Elderly renters I can better sympathize with but still the issue of subsidizing non-working people to live near employment centers at the expense of working people remains.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

This is the sprawl that you endorse. If you were a fan of greater density then these areas could be preserved.

But they don't. Denser housing begets more businesses, which begets more housing. Not everyone is willing to live in a $2k/mo rental apartment so they buy a home. More businesses means more people means more homes means more land used for either businesses, dense housing, or single family housing. You can't just stuff everyone in an arcology and mandate they never live anywhere else.

 

[Vic]

He is right when he is right. Some increases in density are taking place where the natural environment has already been eliminated. But nobody seems to want to address the humans are viruses issue.

Humans aren't viruses.

 

[fskimospy]

I have to say @Moonbeam thank you for making a thread that demolishes your point.

We are trying to help people. You’re trying to destroy them.

 

[sdifox]

A minor side issue. Poor governance is everywhere. Gas last year was a thousand dollars a month. You know where we would be today with energy independence if big oil didn't block the way.

USA has been a net primary energy exporter since 2019. It has always been laughable of USA talking about energy independence.

 

[sdifox]

Speak for yourself, plenty of green land around me is being flattened, turned over, and converted into mcmansions or multistory business buildings.

Well talk to city planners. We already had our sprawl, now higher density units are finally being built.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Well talk to city planners. We already had our sprawl, now higher density units are finally being built.

But you just said it wasn't happening, green spaces weren't being used for builds. Did you just mean in your specific city?

 

[sdifox]

But you just said it wasn't happening, green spaces weren't being used for builds. Did you just mean in your specific city?

Was talking about my city, not yours.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Was talking about my city, not yours.

Well how helpful is it if your city has already ripped up all the green space they could? This is a global problem, not a your city problem.

 

[sdifox]

Well how helpful is it if your city has already ripped up all the green space they could? This is a global problem, not a your city problem.

When was I appointed the global planner? And how much does it pay?

 

[Moonbeam]

It’s amazing to me how you have the gall to talk about empathy while causing a humanitarian crisis.

Actually it’s not. People recognize suffering among people they know, others are abstract. You are causing mass human misery because you don’t know them.

I have to say @Moonbeam thank you for making a thread that demolishes your point.

We are trying to help people. You’re trying to destroy them.

What I see is you trying to help one group of people at the expense of another group of people because you justify your indifference by projecting it onto me. As I have said before, and nothing to do with why I posted this thread, is that you are unwilling to think out of the box. You look at any problem as requiring a solution within the system rather than the fact that it is the system that creates the problem you want to fix and so it's the system that needs fixing. People crown into areas of economic growth because they need a job to survive. There would be no areas of economic advantage if there were no need for jobs. We are going to have less and less need for non-technical skills as time goes on and thus no need for people with little to offer with regard to education or brain capacity. This will require, in my opinion, a sharing of the wealth created by AI and robotic based labor. Individuals will have to relinquish ownership of the wealth created by machines. The machines will have to be considered as taxable people who have only replacement and maintenance needs and can be taxed at a very high rate.

 

[fskimospy]

What I see is you trying to help one group of people at the expense of another group of people because you justify your indifference by projecting it onto me. As I have said before, and nothing to do with why I posted this thread, is that you are unwilling to think out of the box. You look at any problem as requiring a solution within the system rather than the fact that it is the system that creates the problem you want to fix and so it's the system that needs fixing. People crown into areas of economic growth because they need a job to survive. There would be no areas of economic advantage if there were no need for jobs. We are going to have less and less need for non-technical skills as time goes on and thus no need for people with little to offer with regard to education or brain capacity. This will require, in my opinion, a sharing of the wealth created by AI and robotic based labor. Individuals will have to relinquish ownership of the wealth created by machines. The machines will have to be considered as taxable people who have only replacement and maintenance needs and can be taxed at a very high rate.

Every accusation a confession.

 

[fskimospy]

I mean there are thousands of people living under overpasses everywhere. There are a ton who live right by me.

@Moonbeam what you’re doing is evil. It is crazy you don’t see how much you’re hurting people. The selfishness is just off the charts. Please, be a better person.

 

[fskimospy]

But they don't. Denser housing begets more businesses, which begets more housing. Not everyone is willing to live in a $2k/mo rental apartment so they buy a home. More businesses means more people means more homes means more land used for either businesses, dense housing, or single family housing. You can't just stuff everyone in an arcology and mandate they never live anywhere else.

You know density makes housing cheaper, right?