Some clarification on defective conservative thinking:

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LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
It should, of course, knowing you as I do, be of no surprose to me that this subject would come up, because I have for days now been wondering how an INFJ would view jury nullification compared to an INFP. hehehehehe

Let me help you decide for yourself...




'As an INFJ, my primary mode of living is focused internally, where I take things in primarily via intuition. My secondary mode is external, where I deal with things according to how I feel about them, or how they fit with my personal value system.'

'INFJs are gentle, caring, complex and highly intuitive individuals. Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities. Only one percent of the population has an INFJ Personality Type, making it the most rare of all the types.
INFJs place great importance on havings things orderly and systematic in their outer world. They put a lot of energy into identifying the best system for getting things done, and constantly define and re-define the priorities in their lives. On the other hand, INFJs operate within themselves on an intuitive basis which is entirely spontaneous. They know things intuitively, without being able to pinpoint why, and without detailed knowledge of the subject at hand. They are usually right, and they usually know it.:D Consequently, INFJs put a tremendous amount of faith into their instincts and intuitions. This is something of a conflict between the inner and outer worlds, and may result in the INFJ not being as organized as other Judging types tend to be. Or we may see some signs of disarray in an otherwise orderly tendency, such as a consistently messy desk.' No... perhaps a total disaster of a desk .. hehehe
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
And who is moonbeam?


'As an INFP, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit into your personal value system. Your secondary mode is external, where you take things in primarily via your intuition.
INFPs, more than other iNtuitive Feeling types, are focused on making the world a better place for people. Their primary goal is to find out their meaning in life. What is their purpose? How can they best serve humanity in their lives? They are idealists and perfectionists, who drive themselves hard in their quest for achieving the goals they have identified for themselves
INFPs are highly intuitive about people. They rely heavily on their intuitions to guide them, and use their discoveries to constantly search for value in life. They are on a continuous mission to find the truth and meaning underlying things. Every encounter and every piece of knowledge gained gets sifted through the INFP's value system, and is evaluated to see if it has any potential to help the INFP define or refine their own path in life. The goal at the end of the path is always the same - the INFP is driven to help people and make the world a better place. Generally thoughtful and considerate, INFPs are good listeners and put people at ease. Although they may be reserved in expressing emotion, they have a very deep well of caring and are genuinely interested in understanding people. This sincerity is sensed by others, making the INFP a valued friend and confidante. An INFP can be quite warm with people he or she knows well.'
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Nonononono The issue is not how it would be view as if the viewer had some meter of truth to measure by, but how the meter of measure would change depending on the position. The conservative thinker is solely preoccupied by whether it's his ox that gets gored. That is how it comes to pass that a conservative can sometimes cease to hate fagots when his favorite girl turns out to be one. Conservatives are beset by fears of evil and that can change when they accidental fall in love with the devil.

Bullshit. The difference is that one can use the system to rebuild their floor, or they can use the system as their floor.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
Bullshit. The difference is that one can use the system to rebuild their floor, or they can use the system as their floor.

Yes. Bullshit is what takes place when it's you that the bull gores. What was yesterday aromatic flower-growing substance you dump on everyone suddenly becomes bull shit when it lands in your face.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
And who is moonbeam?


'As an INFP, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit into your personal value system. Your secondary mode is external, where you take things in primarily via your intuition.
INFPs, more than other iNtuitive Feeling types, are focused on making the world a better place for people. Their primary goal is to find out their meaning in life. What is their purpose? How can they best serve humanity in their lives? They are idealists and perfectionists, who drive themselves hard in their quest for achieving the goals they have identified for themselves
INFPs are highly intuitive about people. They rely heavily on their intuitions to guide them, and use their discoveries to constantly search for value in life. They are on a continuous mission to find the truth and meaning underlying things. Every encounter and every piece of knowledge gained gets sifted through the INFP's value system, and is evaluated to see if it has any potential to help the INFP define or refine their own path in life. The goal at the end of the path is always the same - the INFP is driven to help people and make the world a better place. Generally thoughtful and considerate, INFPs are good listeners and put people at ease. Although they may be reserved in expressing emotion, they have a very deep well of caring and are genuinely interested in understanding people. This sincerity is sensed by others, making the INFP a valued friend and confidante. An INFP can be quite warm with people he or she knows well.'

No wonder I hate myself
 

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
9
76
I think conservatives are a heterogeneous group of people who arrived at their political philosophy through a variety of thought processes. I have to admit though that I actually know some conservatives in real life and I think they are as unique and interesting as anyone else.

Knowing a variety of people in real life has probably clouded my judgement. Maybe one day I'll retreat into a warm echo chamber. When that happens I should be able to view people who think differently as 'others' and maybe I'll be able to judge them "defective."
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Yes. Bullshit is what takes place when it's you that the bull gores. What was yesterday aromatic flower-growing substance you dump on everyone suddenly becomes bull shit when it lands in your face.

More of your deluded "you don' think like me so you are scum" talk. Does it get old hating yourself, and everyone around you so much?
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Can none of you stop falling into Moonbeam's traps?

He has no interest in holding a discussion, he is only here to find people to piss off.

If we all stop responding, the thread goes away.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Even victory isn't enough for you. You need to grind the loser into the dirt. You can never win. Because the loser you see in me is you. Everywhere you go you win because everywhere you go all you see is what you feel and you feel worthless. Not only do you always win, you've never had a real contestant.

There is no victory is watching you pee yourself. There is, however, amusement at you trying to say it is merely spilled lemonade.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
More of your deluded "you don' think like me so you are scum" talk. Does it get old hating yourself, and everyone around you so much?

No, it's not that you don't think like me but that you don't actually think at all. What you do isn't thinking. You can't think and you can't see that you can't think and nobody could hate you for that except you. This is why it is you who hates everyone around you and why you project that hate on me, seeing me as doing that. What makes me different than you is that I've gone where you can't go. I have seen who I really am and from that I can see who you are too. You are afraid of what you will see but I had to know. I see in your dark but you will never know it barring something fatal happening to your ego.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
No, it's not that you don't think like me but that you don't actually think at all. What you do isn't thinking. You can't think and you can't see that you can't think and nobody could hate you for that except you. This is why it is you who hates everyone around you and why you project that hate on me, seeing me as doing that. What makes me different than you is that I've gone where you can't go. I have seen who I really am and from that I can see who you are too. You are afraid of what you will see but I had to know. I see in your dark but you will never know it barring something fatal happening to your ego.

I'd like to thank you for continuing to reinforce everything I think about you. Just an empty pseudo-intellectual wanna be that thinks everyone that doesn't agree with his distorted world view is ignorant. You are the epitome of everything you claim to hate.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
Can none of you stop falling into Moonbeam's traps?

He has no interest in holding a discussion, he is only here to find people to piss off.

If we all stop responding, the thread goes away.

This thread is for liberals to alert them to what they are dealing with when trying to talk reasonably to irrational truthy egotists, advise not to get wound up too tight by the fact that your ilk seeks self validation by going up against sane people and making them feel your craziness. So of course none of them can stop falling into their own trap, any more than you could, because their ego just has to defend. It's what the ego is. Conservatives are walking sore toes looking for somebody to step on them and you only have to get within a mile to be accused. It's like having rabies. You have to bite somebody and who better to bite then somebody with a mirror in which 'another' rabid dog appears. From a rabid dog you expect rabid behavior as you see it here.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
I'd like to thank you for continuing to reinforce everything I think about you. Just an empty pseudo-intellectual wanna be that thinks everyone that doesn't agree with his distorted world view is ignorant. You are the epitome of everything you claim to hate.

Ah, so your fear is that you are an empty pseudo-intellectual wanna be. You know, of course, that we become what we fear? No, never mind, you wouldn't know that. It requires some self reflection.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Ah, so your fear is that you are an empty pseudo-intellectual wanna be. You know, of course, that we become what we fear? No, never mind, you wouldn't know that. It requires some self reflection.

Nope, I'm quite happy with me. Your problem is that even though you think you know you, you don't, and you're searching for yourself still, and see what you fear in the ones you try to project your fears onto.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
Nope, I'm quite happy with me. Your problem is that even though you think you know you, you don't, and you're searching for yourself still, and see what you fear in the ones you try to project your fears onto.

Of course you are happy with yourself. That's the exact fiction you maintain by being blind. You wouldn't be quite so thrilled by yourself if you could see who you are so you don't. My only point is that it is useless to tell you these things because all you can do is deflect and attack me. The fact that you really feel like a piece of shit and want me to feel that is of no concern to me. I can see what you do and why you have that need. I, on the other hand, have no need to make you feel worthless. I already know you do, so there can be no victory for me. My only hope is to protect others from being driven mad by your insane ability to deflect what is plainly and perfectly obvious to anybody who doesn't have your infection. And there's always hope for everybody, but not much because we don't want it.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Most conservative man I know is my father. His mom never told her she loved him. sister basically raised him. Dad whopped him all the time. Makes sense. High IQ like genius level but very conservative. I'm somewhere in the middle cause I had sweet loving mommy and dad swore never to hit us but there was verbal abuse.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
There is no victory is watching Moonbeam pee itself. There is, however, amusement at it trying to say it is merely spilled lemonade on itself.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
The only fiction is that you are saying anything meaningful, or true in any way.

My point was to warn liberals not to become upset when conservatives tell them that nothing they say has any meaning or truth because their brain defects make seeing meaning and truth impossible for them. And lo and behold, you are saying just what I told them you would have to say. Because you life in a fiction you can't tell what a fiction is. And all this you have to deny because its attached to your ego you so desperately need to defend.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
There is no victory is watching Moonbeam pee itself. There is, however, amusement at it trying to say it is merely spilled lemonade on itself.

Did you ever see that robot bird that swings on a pivot and eventually dips his beak in water, pops back out and begins to swing again. Your ego got pricked by me and now your my dippy friend who comes back again and again to poke his beak in Moonbeam. It's OK to be dippy because you can't help yourself.
 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,025
550
136
Egos get in the way of rational discussions all the time. The problem is that they are wired into us during our childhood and it is very hard to change your mindset later in life. It affects everyone of us to differing degrees. Moonbeam brings it up in the context of conservatism, but it is universal. Ego is the reason a person may attack the messenger instead of discussing the message or the reason factual evidence is ignored to maintain an original belief.

The key to overcoming ego comes mainly from understanding where the other person is coming from. Even though you still may not agree with their idea, at least you know the thought process behind it. If everyone was a little more reasonable with each other and attempted to understand the other, a lot more constructive dialog would take place. Instead, most of the time we get a food fight. Emergent thinking is pretty critical to overcoming ego. Always being open to new information allows your knowledge to grow and evolve which leads to a better understanding of everything.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
Egos get in the way of rational discussions all the time. The problem is that they are wired into us during our childhood and it is very hard to change your mindset later in life. It affects everyone of us to differing degrees. Moonbeam brings it up in the context of conservatism, but it is universal. Ego is the reason a person may attack the messenger instead of discussing the message or the reason factual evidence is ignored to maintain an original belief.

The key to overcoming ego comes mainly from understanding where the other person is coming from. Even though you still may not agree with their idea, at least you know the thought process behind it. If everyone was a little more reasonable with each other and attempted to understand the other, a lot more constructive dialog would take place. Instead, most of the time we get a food fight. Emergent thinking is pretty critical to overcoming ego. Always being open to new information allows your knowledge to grow and evolve which leads to a better understanding of everything.

I got the feeling reading your post that you must have meant something in particular but which I have never heard of by using the words emergent thinking so I looked the term up and found this:


What Is Emergent Thinking?

Mastering our thinking as opposed to being enslaved by old thought.

Published on April 7, 2011 by Mel Schwartz, L.C.S.W. in A Shift of Mind



What I have come to call Emergent Thinking® is a process that began for me nearly eighteen years ago. I had been experiencing very significant life transitions, which were causing me some acute stress. It all began on a beautiful spring day as I ventured out for a bike ride. To my surprise, rather than basking in the warmth of that day, I began to feel quite anxious. I was experiencing what we ordinarily refer to as an anxiety attack.

I headed back to my house, not at all certain what relief that might provide. Upon returning home, I absentmindedly picked up an unread book, The Turning Point by Fritjof Capra, which clamored for my attention. The book described in fascinating detail a major shift of paradigm that was beginning to impact every aspect of our culture.

Most importantly, I read of a universe that was essentially whole and thoroughly interconnecting, in which any notions of separation were merely an illusion. As I continued to read I experienced not only a loss of my anxiety but a profound peace and harmony, as I became a participant in this magical wholeness. It seemed that reality was, in fact, not composed of separate and discrete objects, as Sir Isaac Newton had instructed us, but was essentially a tapestry of energy in which all parts interpenetrated one another. The universe was a picture of evolving coherence, and I was an integral part of it. My mind quieted, my curiosity piqued and my soul began to enlighten. My turning point had begun.

Since that reading I have immersed myself in this unfolding process of participating in and with reality. It has profoundly impacted my personal and professional life. As my sense of reality altered to align with the remarkable discoveries of the emerging sciences, my belief system also began to reframe itself. It was no longer congruous for me to adhere to old notions of separation, objectivity or constructs of cause and effect. I came to see a reality that was inexorably flowing, an undulating, mystical and inseparable whole. I learned through this process that our beliefs are the primary source of our thoughts. As my new worldview began to modify my beliefs, it wasn't long before my thoughts started to cohere with this changing system.

This profound shift impacted not only how I see but also how I think and live. I integrated these discoveries into my work as a psychotherapist and was buoyed by the rapid shifts and, in many cases, transformations that many of my clients were experiencing. Rather than change being elusive, it became an accessible vehicle for reaching their desired goals. I sought to further this process and came to call it Emergent Thinking®.

The foundation of this approach is based upon learning to utilize and integrate many of the remarkable discoveries of the emerging sciences - quantum physics and complexity theory, for example. I do so by bringing the academic loftiness of these sciences into a useful, practical everyday approach to liberate us from the stranglehold that our obstacles place upon us.

The Emergent Thinking® process enables us to master our thinking as opposed to being enslaved by old thought. The process unravels the myths of false beliefs that entrap us and illuminates the path toward infinite potential. As humans, our lives can flourish when we move into states of becoming, no longer fixed in a particular state of being. The emerging sciences depict an unfolding, inseparable and fully participatory worldview, which provide us with not only meaning and purpose but also relatedness to one another and the universe at large. When we embrace this unfolding process of potential, our lives shift and our transformative journey begins.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by cybrsage
I wonder why other libs are not trying to silence Moon? He makes them all look like lunatics with his anti-conservative idotic posts. I would expect them to be in there disavowing his tantrums and claiming he is a fringe element and does not reflect their views.

I'm a liberal

I don't feel compelled to clarify that not every liberal speaks for me, because I assume you're not an idiot and that this should be obvious.

If this point is confusing, then I'm not sure what comment I could possibly make that would help you out.

Actually I beg to differ.

Republicans are well known to be in lock step.

Democrats (Liberals) used to be free roamers.

Kind of like scattered blind mice but I see signs they are starting to learn from the results Republicans get by being banded together.

Many in here on both sides are in pretty good agreement that the country has become much more partisan.

Just as the middle class has been decimated I believe Independents have been eradicated for the most part as well.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I think conservatives are a heterogeneous group of people who arrived at their political philosophy through a variety of thought processes. I have to admit though that I actually know some conservatives in real life and I think they are as unique and interesting as anyone else.

Knowing a variety of people in real life has probably clouded my judgement. Maybe one day I'll retreat into a warm echo chamber. When that happens I should be able to view people who think differently as 'others' and maybe I'll be able to judge them "defective."

LOL :):thumbsup:
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
I don't think I am unique. I think I am more like original, what you would be too if you didn't believe in anything. I am what was left after everything I wasn't died.

Now please don't tell me that makes you want to compete. Anything you see in me you want to compete with is yourself. I went down long ago in total defeat. My defeat was so complete I was even de feeted and have never again had anything on which to stand. LunarRay even once told me I lack understanding."

We need people like Moonbeam to remind us of what taking politics to the extreme is. In his mind there is only one solution to any problem and if anyone ever comes up with something different than what he did than they are bat-shit crazy and he will do everything he can to try and prove it.