So who's ready for Mass Effect 3?

[Gheris]

Damn people in multiplayer are so elitist. Every party has kicked me since Im level 1.

I decided to start my game over before I get too far. Sentinel is really boring.

Azn what class did you decide to go with?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Damn people in multiplayer are so elitist. Every party has kicked me since Im level 1.

I decided to start my game over before I get too far. Sentinel is really boring.

Yes, as others said, I set my challenge to bronze, and have only gotten kicked once, and that could have been because someone wanted a spot for someone they knew. Since I dont often play multiplayer and pretty much suck at it, people so far have been more tolerant than I expected.

In any case, kicking someone because they are level 1 is kind of lame though. I am level 15 or so now, and I am sure there are a lot of people at level 1 who are better than I am, but just havent played as much.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Azn what class did you decide to go with?

Vanguard. Had so much fun. Went through the Krogen genophage mission and had to fight 3 brutes and realized that shockwave stops them in their charge. It was epic. Although I wish I chose the shockwave range upgrade. I was so used to the never ending shockwave of ME2.

 

[Gheris]

Almost switched to Vanguard myself last night. Pretty annoyed that as an Engineer Shepherd is pretty much not involved with anything to do with the actual schematics or research of the Prothean device. It's just seems like I will be fetching stuff. Kind of lame.

 

[Terzo]

I'm sure many of you already have seen this, but as I got a chuckle out of it I'm sharing it for those who haven't. Ripped from imgur.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Just finished my renegade character. WTF was that ending? I guess it is very hard to end games like mass effect and have an ending that people like. Reminds me of a lot of the, "oh I guess the series is over now" endings I've seen in a lot of anime.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I'm sure many of you already have seen this, but as I got a chuckle out of it I'm sharing it for those who haven't. Ripped from imgur.

ROFL!

 

[Kev]

Finally finished last night. I didn't think the ending was lost or BSG level of awful, but I was really disappointed that it was so brief and vague, and that really none of the decisions I made throughout the 3 games had any effect. I was at least hoping the Rachni and Geth decisions would do more than add to my stupid galactic readiness level, which I could have compensated for by playing more multiplayer or clicking on more planets.

 

[Glitchny]

Have you guys heard of this?

Indoctrination theory

Spoiler

The idea is that Shep is hallucinating from the moment you get hit with the laser. This would explain how Anderson is still alive, why you're suddenly not in your armor on the citadel, where the crew is, and a whole bunch of other things. Basically the whole last sequence is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate you, and the kid was never real. Cause nobody else ever sees or reacts to that kid, just Shep.

The theory explains why when you choose the Destroy option, Shep wakes up in rubble, which is actually still the street in London. As choosing the destroy option wakes Shep up from the indoctrination/hallucination

The forum posts list it out in much greater detail. It's plausible, but would be pretty aggravating if the actual ending is a dlc pack. It would also explain why the ending seems so strange compared to the rest of the game, at least to me.

 

[thespyder]

Finally finished last night. I didn't think the ending was lost or BSG level of awful.

People talk about the nihilistic ending as a bad thing. One of the Best Sci Fi programs of all times was Blake's 7. And talk about nihilistic endings. Everyone gets killed in the end.

Admittedly Lost totally Lost it in the end. However the BSG ending, although extremely sub-par in comparison to the rest of the show, wasn't "That Bad" IMHO.

then there was the "Ending" to V. Or the way that Odyssey 5 ended? Or Hitchhikers "trillogy"?

I guess I am saying that horrible and hopeless endings seem to come with the territory when dealing with Sci Fi.

Now the fact that none of your decisions up to that point have any bearing, hmm...

 

[Joepublic2]

I'm sure many of you already have seen this, but as I got a chuckle out of it I'm sharing it for those who haven't. Ripped from imgur.

Did the synthesis ending and liked it.

Spoiler

It was a little bit different than the other two (most satisfying imo); joker and EDI embracing each other was obv an analogy about how shepard finally broke the cycle of genocides between organics and synthetics.

 

[irishScott]

A great post by a former PR guy about what Bioware is doing and the Retake Mass Effect effort.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/1

atghunter wrote...

Posted this yesterday, I'll repost here. Hope it helps to see what's on the other side of the mirror atm.

I don't think Bioware is out of touch with their customers though I agree with an earlier poster that right now they are assessing their options. Nor do I think that everyone speaking up for them at the moment is a "yes man" or shill. That said:

I don't for a moment think there are any other endings, this was a hallucination, etc. Bioware/EA is letting these speculations go on for two reasons. First, they are letting people vent. Secondly, they are weighing options.

Years ago, I worked for a PR damage control team and everything right now is going by the book. First, re-affirm and ignore (also known as doubling down), then try and define the detractors in the mainstream with things like "this is all a big mistunderstand", etc. while remaining civil in the hopes the detractors go rabid. Meanwhile go dark and use countermeasures through third part sources to prop up your position and brand the outcry as driven by hacks, haters or a minority trying to wear out the detractors on these outlets or "shock troops" while protecting the corporate core. Next, offer something distracting (notice SWTOR is free this upcoming weekend) known as the "faux olive branch"/ask the angry people to explain their concerns (without agreeing to commit to a compromise), buy more add time (definitely going on right now), and hope it dies down. If the pressure is still on, determine the economic viability of 1) ignoring the outcry and banking on the fickle nature of consumers to get over it or 2) determining if we can make money off of fixing it.

If it is any consolation, the decision whether or not there is a fix DLC, etc, won't be made by the writers so illusions to things they wanted to convey don't matter much atm (to wit: the leads comments yesterday). I suspect he's been called in and politely told by the PR guys to not do that again. This is now a corporate problem, not an artistic struggle with fans. Somewhere in the EA bunker, attorneys, PR guys, writers and brass are sharing numbers b/c in the end this will come down to hard currency.

As one who despises the endings, I'm hoping the suits tell the visionaries that the customers are loud enough and numerous enough to swollow their pride and get them out of this storm. For those that love them, I readily accept your position and respectfully disagree.

Greetings All,

First, I’m flattered someone would repost this. Many thanks.

A couple follow-up thoughts for those wondering what is likely going on with the other side of the mirror in the last couple days:

First, Operation Goliath, the free Star Wars online weekend, and the recent noncommittal overtures to listen are faux olive branches. Sorry. Customers intrinsically want to believe companies they patronize listen and when they stop believing that, the company has to say they are listening and do anything to get the detractors off-message. There are a dozen names for this, but the most memorable was "The Shell Game."

You will know that there’s a genuine need for dialogue in the corporate bunker when the message turns from “we’re listening” to “we acknowledge we may have a disconnect with our consumers and are willing to discuss a meaningful solution to the problem.” It signals an end to non-committed deflection and opening genuine talks to solve the problem (it’s knows as “Exposing Your Throat” btw). At present, you’ll notice Bioware/EA has only said they will “explain” the endings. That’s not a give, that’s a delay tactic.

But here’s the part that amazes me as an old PR guy and is totally new. The disenfranchised base here is changing the old methodology. It’s akin to comparing old-style bunker PR defenses to new blitzkrieg-style consumers. To date, the “bunker strategy” was always used because it was virtually foolproof. However, social media and the 24 hour news cycle have simply changed everything. Twenty years ago, you could not mass 30,000 protesters into a networked base without some luck, money, a GREAT cause and (most importantly) time. By the time you did get organized, folks were either burned out or lost interest. Groups like Take Back have altered the landscape and suddenly the contest is taken from the old paradigm to a crazy new (and wonderful IMO) place. Preorder sales took away customers biggest weapon in the past (i.e. don’t buy the product). Now customers who feel they have received poor value have been potentially re-empowered by the internet. Bioware/EA is feeling the full brunt of this thing while passion is hottest. They are deploying countermeasures faster than the old strategies ever would have ever suggested. To some degree, they are being outmaneuvered atm. But now it depends on how long the protest/outcry holds up.

Two more quick points and I’ll close. First, the Child’s Play movement was brilliant. Notice over the past few days how some of the most visceral detractors to the outcry have had to shift their vitriol from “you’re spoiled selfish haters” to “sure you gave to charity, but you are spoiled selfish haters.” Nobody is drinking that Kool-Aid. Better yet, some outlets are now saying “maybe the game has problem but its still art” from the precedent message “best game ever.” That won’t fly with the mainstream. If its one thing they know is that when “art” hits the marketplace, it is a commodity, nothing more. You’ve changed the countermeasures from "unbiased" critics of the movement into drum beaters simply trying to get you angry. EA’s PR guys probably envy you (grudgingly) atm.

Second, don’t buy the only X people voted in the poll out of 1 billion customers, so they don’t care. That’s bunk. Are there "drum beaters" on both sides of this issue that just want to see controversy, sure. But if I was sitting in an office looking at that Bioware poll, I’d be reaching for a cigarette.

Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I’ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.

I’m an older gamer and again appreciate the repost. To everyone (on both sides) continue to let your voices be heard. You are consumers and have every right to engage in this discourse. The boards being locked yesterday proves someone is watching and knows this is an issue. I'm in the hated-ending camp to be sure, but I admire everyone one of you who is arguing for what believe on both sides!

Cheers.

Many men may be willing to die heroically for a noble cause, but few men will live humbly for one. Wilhelm Stekel

 

[Joepublic2]

Just a question, what do you guys think would have been a better ending, anyway?

 

[Red Hawk]

Did the synthesis ending and liked it.

Spoiler

It was a little bit different than the other two (most satisfying imo); joker and EDI embracing each other was obv an analogy about how shepard finally broke the cycle of genocides between organics and synthetics.

Except this way of "breaking the cycle" is stupid, if you think about it; in ME3

Spoiler

Shepard can end the war between the geth and the quarians, resulting in peace. He was already on good terms with EDI. He didn't need to blow up the mass relays to do it.

The ending was stupid no matter what, because the premise is flawed. Put simply:

 

[Joepublic2]

Except this way of "breaking the cycle" is stupid, if you think about it; in ME3

Spoiler

Shepard can end the war between the geth and the quarians, resulting in peace. He was already on good terms with EDI. He didn't need to blow up the mass relays to do it.

The ending was stupid no matter what, because the premise is flawed. Put simply:

Spoiler

The point was the catalyst built the mass relays and the reapers to establish a balance between synthetic and organic life. Like it explained, the reapers only "uplifted" organic races that were on the verge of creating their own synthetic life and it did so every 50k years because that was what it judged was the longest time interval between cycles that could be allowed without the possibility of synthetic life more advanced than the reapers from arising that would scour the galaxy of ALL organic life, not just the technologically developed life, as a precautionary measure against future conflict with the organics. So it was actually acting to preserve organic life when viewed through the lens of its perception.

Some long extinct race created the catalyst (maybe what the keepers were created from?), or what grew into the catalyst, and later tried to destroy it like the quarians did with the geth, and the catalyst/protocatalyst being retaliated with the reapers and "uplifted"/merged their societies collective consciousness into a reaper body (but maintained control of course) as a way to end the conflict. This ancient conflict colored its perception of possible organic synthetic relations. It even said "we have more possibilities now" because it was modified by the crucible. It also realized that the cycles wouldn't work anymore and was at a loss at how to handle the situation until it was modified with the crucible and presented with a new way of approaching the problem.

 

[irishScott]

Spoiler

The point was the catalyst built the mass relays and the reapers to establish a balance between synthetic and organic life. Like it explained, the reapers only "uplifted" organic races that were on the verge of creating their own synthetic life and it did so every 50k years because that was what it judged was the longest time interval between cycles that could be allowed without the possibility of synthetic life more advanced than the reapers from arising that would scour the galaxy of ALL organic life, not just the technologically developed life, as a precautionary measure against future conflict with the organics. So it was actually acting to preserve organic life when viewed through the lens of its perception.

Some long extinct race created the catalyst (maybe what the keepers were created from?), or what grew into the catalyst, and later tried to destroy it like the quarians did with the geth, and the catalyst/protocatalyst being retaliated with the reapers and "uplifted"/merged their societies collective consciousness into a reaper body (but maintained control of course) as a way to end the conflict. This ancient conflict colored its perception of possible organic synthetic relations. It even said "we have more possibilities now" because it was modified by the crucible. It also realized that the cycles wouldn't work anymore and was at a loss at how to handle the situation until it was modified with the crucible and presented with a new way of approaching the problem.

Spoiler

But it's logic is inherently flawed. Life, organic or synthetic is by nature unpredictable. No entity can predict every possible permutation of events off of currently known data when talking about something that complex. Look at the Protheans, they were an Organic empire that obviously prized their organic capabilities. There has never been any mention of an AI threat. Hell in our cycle AI research is banned and the Geth are peaceful.

You're telling me the the entire Mass Effect saga was spawned because of a glitch in an ancient AI's logic programming? That's worse than Anakin's Frankenstein yell.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I'm about 7 hours in and I've just barely started the story (

Spoiler

just rescued the Primarch

). I'm really enjoying the game so far, though playing as a Soldier can get a little boring. I've been avoiding this thread in hopes of not being spoiled.

 

[Red Hawk]

Spoiler

The point was the catalyst built the mass relays and the reapers to establish a balance between synthetic and organic life. Like it explained, the reapers only "uplifted" organic races that were on the verge of creating their own synthetic life and it did so every 50k years because that was what it judged was the longest time interval between cycles that could be allowed without the possibility of synthetic life more advanced than the reapers from arising that would scour the galaxy of ALL organic life, not just the technologically developed life, as a precautionary measure against future conflict with the organics. So it was actually acting to preserve organic life when viewed through the lens of its perception.

That would be nice if it was explained that way in the game, but it's not.

Spoiler

The catalyst's reasoning is simply that AI will always rebel and destroy its creator, so its solution...was to destroy the organic creator with the Reapers before it makes that AI. It's a non-solution, because the end result is the same: synthetics wiping out organics. So what if primitive races are left alive? New races can always evolve, and there's nothing to say that uncontrolled AIs would pay any more attention to primitive organic life. They're not the "creator" they're rebelling against, after all.

Spoiler

Some long extinct race created the catalyst (maybe what the keepers were created from?), or what grew into the catalyst, and later tried to destroy it like the quarians did with the geth, and the catalyst/protocatalyst being retaliated with the reapers and "uplifted"/merged their societies collective consciousness into a reaper body (but maintained control of course) as a way to end the conflict. This ancient conflict colored its perception of possible organic synthetic relations. It even said "we have more possibilities now" because it was modified by the crucible. It also realized that the cycles wouldn't work anymore and was at a loss at how to handle the situation until it was modified with the crucible and presented with a new way of approaching the problem.

Again, that would be nice if that was actually explained in the game. It wasn't, you just made it all up.

Spoiler

And how does Shepard showing up make the Catalyst's solution not work anymore, (or rather, work even less than before) anyways? The Crucible wouldn't have done anything had the Catalyst ignored Shepard. The Reapers would still have wiped out the Citadel fleet and completed the cycle. The Catalyst needed a "new solution" -- to what?

 

[Joepublic2]

Spoiler

You're telling me the the entire Mass Effect saga was spawned because of a glitch in an ancient AI's logic programming? That's worse than Anakin's Frankenstein yell.

Spoiler

Yeah I'm just saying that was its solution to the problem because its experiences led to it believing that synthetics would invariable destroy organics so it decided to do it in a more "orderly" fashion than all out war and total extinction of organic life by some other synthetic life forms. They also enslaved the geth which were an inferior machine intelligence and halted their development. I did think they phoned in the ending, though, and the story does feel retconed in a lot of places.

Spoiler

The catalyst's reasoning is simply that AI will always rebel and destroy its creator, so its solution...was to destroy the organic creator with the Reapers before it makes that AI. It's a non-solution, because the end result is the same: synthetics wiping out organics. So what if primitive races are left alive? New races can always evolve, and there's nothing to say that uncontrolled AIs would pay any more attention to primitive organic life. They're not the "creator" they're rebelling against, after all.

Spoiler

Yeah, but it didn't wipe out all organic life, just organic life that had the ability to create new synthetic life. But a sufficiently advanced synthetic intelligence(s) might say for example push all matter in a solar system into its stars if it for whatever reasons decided that it was at odds with organic life in general to preclude the development of any organic life altogether.

Again, that would be nice if that was actually explained in the game. It wasn't, you just made it all up.

Spoiler

Made it up, filled in the blanks, whats the difference? Although I agree the story was a bit open ended and it didn't feel like it was supposed to be that way.

Spoiler

And how does Shepard showing up make the Catalyst's solution not work anymore, (or rather, work even less than before) anyways? The Crucible wouldn't have done anything had the Catalyst ignored Shepard. The Reapers would still have wiped out the Citadel fleet and completed the cycle. The Catalyst needed a "new solution" -- to what?

Spoiler

Well the organics managed to kick some ass this time around largely due to prothean knowledge preserved between the cycles. It was also common knowledge at that point that the citadel was the catalyst which wasn't know last cycle, so the catalyst knew that the organics would leave the knowledge for the next cycle, building on what the protheans left last time.

 

[Red Hawk]

Spoiler

Yeah, but it didn't wipe out all organic life, just organic life that had the ability to create new synthetic life. But a sufficiently advanced synthetic intelligence(s) might say for example push all matter in a solar system into its stars if it for whatever reasons decided that it was at odds with organic life in general to preclude the development of any organic life altogether.

Spoiler

Then have the Reapers wipe out the AI once it appears but before it gets to that point of power. Not the organic races. Or just subdue the organics without wiping them out to prevent them from making such AI.

Spoiler

Made it up, filled in the blanks, whats the difference? Although I agree the story was a bit open ended and it didn't feel like it was supposed to be that way.

If you need to make up excuses for writing, then that writing was crappy in the first place.

Spoiler

Well the organics managed to kick some ass this time around largely due to prothean knowledge preserved between the cycles. It was also common knowledge at that point that the citadel was the catalyst which wasn't know last cycle, so the catalyst knew that the organics would leave the knowledge for the next cycle, building on what the protheans left last time.

Again, more making stuff up that was never in the game!

Spoiler

The Catalyst simply says that because Shepard is here, the solution won't work anymore. Whyyyyy? The cold, hard fact is that if the Catalyst had done nothing, the cycle would have completed as usual, the Reapers would have done the usual cover-up of the cycle, and the cycles would have continued. If you count on organics being unpredictable and succeeding somehow in the next cycle where all others have failed, doesn't that invalidate the Catalyst's logic in the first place? If organics are unpredictable, there's no way to predict that they would make AIs that would be powerful enough or even want to kill them.

 

[Joepublic2]

Yeah, they should have hired me as a writer I guess heh. I did think they did a decent job at the story but it doesn't seem very consistent, you're right.
Seems like all the mass effect plot lines were written by different people (I don't know if they were or not off the top of my head).

 

[Maximilian]

Yeah, they should have hired me as a writer I guess heh. I did think they did a decent job at the story but it doesn't seem very consistent, you're right.
Seems like all the mass effect plot lines were written by different people (I don't know if they were or not off the top of my head).

There was a different writer for each game afaik.

 

[Red Hawk]

There are a number of writers who work on each game, but only a couple of head writers. The head writer for Mass Effect 1 was Drew Karpyshyn, who also was the head writer of Knights of the Old Republic (2003) (Karpyshyn also wrote the Mass Effect tie-in novels, except for the last one). For Mass Effect 2, Karpyshyn basically only drew up the outline for the game, since he was already involved as the head writer for The Old Republic (the MMO). Mac Walters, who worked as a writer on ME1 previously, did most of the work for Mass Effect 2 (both Karpyshyn and Walters are credited as head writers for ME2). Walters was basically the head writer for ME3. (Walters also wrote the tie-in comic books for Mass Effect).

 

[Arg Clin]

Except this way of "breaking the cycle" is stupid, if you think about it; in ME3

Spoiler

Shepard can end the war between the geth and the quarians, resulting in peace. He was already on good terms with EDI. He didn't need to blow up the mass relays to do it.

The ending was stupid no matter what, because the premise is flawed. Put simply:

Spoiler

Just finished - great game, terrible ending.

This particular piece of 'logic' struck me as odd. As did a lot of things in the ending.

I think the starchild was not being completely truthful here. The starchild might worry that eventually organics would create AI's that would destroy the reapers - but that's a whole other motive. The starchild was just looking out for itself/its reapers.

The reapers being a solution to chaos? that statement is so blatantly idiotic that I stopped believing a word the starchild said at that point. As the whole buildup in ME3 shows, evolution bring order to the chaos - Shepard just more or less united the entire known universe for crying out loud. How much more order can you get than that? Reset of evolution every 50K did the exact opposite of what starchild suggested.

If the starchild was some kind of higher being looking out for the universe, then it would have withdrawn the reapers after the crucible being hooked up. Races united - mission accomplished! Get along or the reapers will come back!

I think it was not so - the starchild was in my view inherently evil and thus presented Shepard with 3 'evil' options. None of them will give a happy everafter - win for the badguys or everybody lose. I chose destroy, as as I saw there was no good outcome to this, so I'd rather just take the reapers down with me.

Makes sense, though it's rather sad and disappointing for those of us that had hoped for a ending.

 

[Red Storm]

A good game... until the end. What a load of crap. That was beyond terrible. The ending completely ruined what was shaping up to being a very good game.

The ME trilogy is like a visual timeline of what's happened to Bioware. Fantastic beginning (classic old school Bioware), shaky middle ("new" Bioware), and a terrible end (EA/Bioware).