I have a difference of philosophy with you here. To me the end is the whole point of the game. That is why I play a game, to get involved in a story and play it through to a definite resolution. An escape from the uncertainty and vagaries of real life. And I think it is far different to want a satisfactory conclusion to a series that you have invested hundreds of dollars and many, many hours into than being the kid you made fun of above.
I see and take that as a valid perspective. Not mine, but still perfectly valid. And I guess I can understand it as well. The movie "The Abyss" was really fantastic up until the last 5 minutes. Then it sucked. And I don't enjoy watching it. So Ok, I get it.
Still, the story as presented was written by an author (or authors) and should have the same validity and sanctity as any novel or story. The creator is entitled to their creative property. You may not like it. May not enjoy it. May hate it. Feel free.
But the point where some people think they "Own" it and can demand that it be changed to their perspective is just plain wrong in my book.
And no, the fact that it is an interactive experience in a video game doesn't invalidate the analogy with a book. It is still a creative work of fiction written with the intent to (sucess or fail) entertain. And as such should be accorded all the rights of any creative work.
There are tons of game changing decisions... In the demo there was a mission where they were rescuing the last known female of Rex's species...
Well, when I played the first game Rex died... so obviously that's not going to be a part of my playthrough.
I waited a few days and got the game for $49.99.. not much of a collectors edition kinda guy. I did think it was a joke however that I bought the hard copy of the game and it still forces me to install it through origin.
Spoiler concerning the krogan, do not read if do not want spoil
LOL nope, they just give you a stand in character for every choice you could have made. Same story with the Krogan female, but you're working with Wreave! such a difference that decision made.
I see and take that as a valid perspective. Not mine, but still perfectly valid. And I guess I can understand it as well. The movie "The Abyss" was really fantastic up until the last 5 minutes. Then it sucked. And I don't enjoy watching it. So Ok, I get it.
Still, the story as presented was written by an author (or authors) and should have the same validity and sanctity as any novel or story. The creator is entitled to their creative property. You may not like it. May not enjoy it. May hate it. Feel free.
But the point where some people think they "Own" it and can demand that it be changed to their perspective is just plain wrong in my book.
And no, the fact that it is an interactive experience in a video game doesn't invalidate the analogy with a book. It is still a creative work of fiction written with the intent to (sucess or fail) entertain. And as such should be accorded all the rights of any creative work.
I agree, just because you played the game for a long time doesn't mean you get to force it to be changed. You are playing the developers story and fiction and only slightly altering it.
This is the same as people who get emotionally invested in movies and then get upset when they don't end they way they think they should.
Star Wars is a huge example of this. People emotionally invested over years and even decades of their lives. New movies come out and everyone gets upset at how bad they are and wishes they were better. But that doesn't give them the right to DEMAND Lucas go an re-film them. I mean they can cry all they want, but you shouldn't expect it to be changed, and no director/writer/developer should ever acquiesce to fan complaints. Sure it's a shit story, but it's his story, not yours. Works the same with ME3.
You might be emotionally invested, but you're not the storyteller. Although games are different from books and movies because you are interacting with the story directly instead of passively. You are still playing in somebody elses made up world, and they might make a different decision than you would have.
Another example of this would be any time Blizzard changes or adds to WoW lore and the forums explode with people telling them how they should do it and how the game should be changed. It's their story.
I agree, just because you played the game for a long time doesn't mean you get to force it to be changed. You are playing the developers story and fiction and only slightly altering it.
This is the same as people who get emotionally invested in movies and then get upset when they don't end they way they think they should.
Star Wars is a huge example of this. People emotionally invested over years and even decades of their lives. New movies come out and everyone gets upset at how bad they are and wishes they were better. But that doesn't give them the right to DEMAND Lucas go an re-film them. I mean they can cry all they want, but you shouldn't expect it to be changed, and no director/writer/developer should ever acquiesce to fan complaints. Sure it's a shit story, but it's his story, not yours. Works the same with ME3.
You might be emotionally invested, but you're not the storyteller. Although games are different from books and movies because you are interacting with the story directly instead of passively. You are still playing in somebody elses made up world, and they might make a different decision than you would have.
Another example of this would be any time Blizzard changes or adds to WoW lore and the forums explode with people telling them how they should do it and how the game should be changed. It's their story.
More or less exactly. Like it, don't like it. those are your choices. And welcome to them. don't tell an author that they "Have" to change their world/story. You don't own it. They do.
And again I am going to say that the marketing did what it stated, offered consequences for choices. I see no where that says "Every decision you make ultimately impacts the outcome of the game". And even if it did, an argument could be made that the war resource meter was that impact. But then marketing is by it's very nature, deceptive. Read it with a grain of salt (or a truckload).
And again, I get that you didn't like the ending. Hated it in fact. I can't see condemning a game for .1% of it's content. But that is me.
Still it doesn't change the fact that you as a consumer have no rights to DEMAND anything at all regarding a change in the content. And to expect that you do is pure entitlement of the worst kind. Like a kid that gets taken to Disney world for the day and gets to ride every single ride that he/she wants, gets to eat all the cotton candy and junk that they want all day, but claim that it is the worst day ever because they couldn't decide where dinner was had at the end of it. boo Hoo.
I'm not condemning the game, per se. Didn't I just say that 99.9% of the game was great? It's just that the whole series has been building toward this ending. That buildup was phenomenal. The buildup was personal -- I was getting the final say in the paths the story took. I was emotionally invested in just about everything regarding the games. Then the ending comes along and slaps me in the face by not involving any of my choices, not bothering to provide an epilogue to see how my other choices might have turned out, and being completely nonsensical and antithetical to the game's themes to boot.
The final moments of the game are supposed to give you a final feeling about the game. That feeling, for me, wasn't triumph. There is no triumph in this ending. It wasn't satisfaction, because there was no closure. It was frustration, because of how out of left field and nonsensical it was.
It may be that eventually I'll get over my reaction to the ending and bring myself to play the games again. Every time, though, I'm going to alt-tab out of the game before the final 10 minutes and just imagine my own ending.
About demanding a new ending -- I haven't demanded one. I think BioWare releasing a new ending would be setting a bad precedent. But I can hardly bear the thought of the game's ending being left as is. I don't know.
The Control are so annoying in this game, one key for 3 action (space-bar) kill getting me kill when the action get intensives. anyone have a mod for it?
I see and take that as a valid perspective. Not mine, but still perfectly valid. And I guess I can understand it as well. The movie "The Abyss" was really fantastic up until the last 5 minutes. Then it sucked. And I don't enjoy watching it. So Ok, I get it.
Still, the story as presented was written by an author (or authors) and should have the same validity and sanctity as any novel or story. The creator is entitled to their creative property. You may not like it. May not enjoy it. May hate it. Feel free.
But the point where some people think they "Own" it and can demand that it be changed to their perspective is just plain wrong in my book.
And no, the fact that it is an interactive experience in a video game doesn't invalidate the analogy with a book. It is still a creative work of fiction written with the intent to (sucess or fail) entertain. And as such should be accorded all the rights of any creative work.
I see your point, but there has to be some standard by which a book, or movie, or video game is judged. You cant say any work of fiction is a good as any other just because it is the authors right to write what he wants. So I think one can judge whether an ending of a particular work is appropriate and cohesive with the content that came before it, and whether it provides adequate closure to the story. I havent reached the ending of ME3 yet, so I am saying this in just general terms, not specifically in regard to ME3.
I see your point, but there has to be some standard by which a book, or movie, or video game is judged. You cant say any work of fiction is a good as any other just because it is the authors right to write what he wants. So I think one can judge whether an ending of a particular work is appropriate and cohesive with the content that came before it, and whether it provides adequate closure to the story. I havent reached the ending of ME3 yet, so I am saying this in just general terms, not specifically in regard to ME3.
No one is saying you can't judge. Like or dislike is by all means yours to decide. And there are a LOT of crap books out there. Just look at the Twilight saga.
But that is where it ends. You may not like a given book or story in a video game. But that does not give you the right to demand a rewrite. Like it? Great. Don't like it. That is fine too. But telling someone that their story needs to change is like telling old Leo that the lady isn't smiling enough for your tastes. It's just poor taste and wrong.
I see your point, but there has to be some standard by which a book, or movie, or video game is judged. You cant say any work of fiction is a good as any other just because it is the authors right to write what he wants. So I think one can judge whether an ending of a particular work is appropriate and cohesive with the content that came before it, and whether it provides adequate closure to the story. I havent reached the ending of ME3 yet, so I am saying this in just general terms, not specifically in regard to ME3.
Watched a buddy of mine play through some of the game and decided to check out the ending....
Wow that ending was some poo. The real ending should have been Shepard sitting at the bar at the citadel, getting drunk and making wise cracks while the credits rolled.
Getting through this. I beat mass effect 2 2 yesterday and got through a few levels of part three last night. Movement in part 3 is much better. I feel like there's so much more to do in part three as well. I'm glad I bought 1 and 2 and started from there. I was so confused when I played the demo but now everything makes sense. In part one I hooked up with Ashley and in part two with tali. Its funny how I actually feel bad when I had to reply to Ashley if I wanted to rekindle the relationship.
I played a Sentinel in 1&2 and loaded my save from those for 3. Didn't like the Sentinel gameplay to be honest. I have since tried the Adept, Engineer, Soldier, and Vanguard. Vanguard seemed fun, Adept you don't even need to use a weapon, Engineer was fun, and Soldier is just boring in my opinion. Haven't tried Infiltrator.
So far I have opted to go Engineer. The Drone and turret are a nice addition to the cryo and incinerate powers. I am having more trouble deciding whether or not I want the Drone and Turret to go with Missiles. Other than that and I am having a blast.
I'm not condemning the game, per se. Didn't I just say that 99.9% of the game was great? It's just that the whole series has been building toward this ending. That buildup was phenomenal. The buildup was personal -- I was getting the final say in the paths the story took. I was emotionally invested in just about everything regarding the games. Then the ending comes along and slaps me in the face by not involving any of my choices, not bothering to provide an epilogue to see how my other choices might have turned out, and being completely nonsensical and antithetical to the game's themes to boot.
So please forgive if I miss-read your posts. You indicated that the last 10 minutes ruined the experience for you. I took that as condemnation. If that wasn't your intent, I appologize.
The final moments of the game are supposed to give you a final feeling about the game. That feeling, for me, wasn't triumph. There is no triumph in this ending. It wasn't satisfaction, because there was no closure. It was frustration, because of how out of left field and nonsensical it was.
Anything I say here is PURE speculation. I would suppose that the ending wasn't "Finality" for the simple reason that they may wish to revisit the ME universe again. Although Shepard's story is over, they may still want a Universe in conflict. And the fact that there was no closure would be a hook to bring fans of the series back in. Again, this is TOTAL supposition on my part. And I am not saying it will work, merely that is one possibility.
It may be that eventually I'll get over my reaction to the ending and bring myself to play the games again. Every time, though, I'm going to alt-tab out of the game before the final 10 minutes and just imagine my own ending.
About demanding a new ending -- I haven't demanded one. I think BioWare releasing a new ending would be setting a bad precedent. But I can hardly bear the thought of the game's ending being left as is. I don't know.
You may not be demanding an ending, but a lot of people are. And that is where my umbrage came from. if I wrote a story i would be really pissed if someone told me the ending sucked. Even if it did. Just giving the authors of the story their right to create as they chose.
I played a Sentinel in 1&2 and loaded my save from those for 3. Didn't like the Sentinel gameplay to be honest. I have since tried the Adept, Engineer, Soldier, and Vanguard. Vanguard seemed fun, Adept you don't even need to use a weapon, Engineer was fun, and Soldier is just boring in my opinion. Haven't tried Infiltrator.
So far I have opted to go Engineer. The Drone and turret are a nice addition to the cryo and incinerate powers. I am having more trouble deciding whether or not I want the Drone and Turret to go with Missiles. Other than that and I am having a blast.
Yes it's a pain to play part way through and realize you are not enjoying the class. However I found pressing the spacebar through conversations helped immensely. Worst case scenario you wait for a one of those programs that allow you to change class/name on your save. I know their was one for ME2.
By definition "reaching a conclusion". In a game I would consider it to be knowing the fate of the major characters and the end of the storyline, without a lot of uncertainty. Apparently this is not how ME3 ends.
Besides, it is a game, as someone else suggested, why couldnt we have Shephard sitting around in a bar having a beer and reliving how he destroyed the reapers? Seems like every game now has to have some tragic, or at best bittersweet, morally ambiguous ending. If you want that just watch the six o'clock news!!
"Adequate closure" is difficult to explain, but as was talked about in another thread, I would say KOTOR 1 had definite closure and your choices greatly affected the ending. You got two totally different ending cinematics depending on whether you went light side or dark side, and both made totally clear what happened at the end of the game.
Ive played it and completed the game and my only complaint was lack of a sign post to show which path did what and a lack of answers about when it all began and with what race, although irrelevant I would have liked to have known who created the reapers or what events led them to their assumption that all synthetic life would wipe out organic life and therefore begin the "cycle". Apart from that it all made sense.
I played a Sentinel in 1&2 and loaded my save from those for 3. Didn't like the Sentinel gameplay to be honest. I have since tried the Adept, Engineer, Soldier, and Vanguard. Vanguard seemed fun, Adept you don't even need to use a weapon, Engineer was fun, and Soldier is just boring in my opinion. Haven't tried Infiltrator.
So far I have opted to go Engineer. The Drone and turret are a nice addition to the cryo and incinerate powers. I am having more trouble deciding whether or not I want the Drone and Turret to go with Missiles. Other than that and I am having a blast.
Ive played it and completed the game and my only complaint was lack of a sign post to show which path did what and a lack of answers about when it all began and with what race, although irrelevant I would have liked to have known who created the reapers or what events led them to their assumption that all synthetic life would wipe out organic life and therefore begin the "cycle". Apart from that it all made sense.
1. Magic Space God appears in final 5 minutes. There's no previous discussion of magic space god, and the thing he appears from was given a quite concrete purpose in ME1.
2. Choices are nonsensical at best: Magic space god can kill all the reapers, or control all the reapers, or magically turn the DNA of every biological creature in the galaxy into cyborg DNA, but it can't blow up the reapers without taking EDI and the Geth with them. It's not just an arbitrary god from the machine, it's an incompetent god from out of nowhere.
3. It's stated purpose for creating the reapers in nonsensical. Artificially created life will always rebel against it's creators....so we'll just destroy the creators ourselves. We need a new solution! How was that a solution to anything to begin with?
4. Joker decides, for no apparent reason whatsoever, to fly the through mass relay when it's being used as a cannon. What? Why? How? What purpose could that have possibly served?
5. In my playthrough at least, EDI and Ashley were both on Earth during this big battle. But apparently they managed to teleport onto the Normandy right before Joker makes his inexplicable decision to go through a Mass Relay right then.
And that's skipping the bigger ones about wrapping up a series effectively, or making anything you do matter in the end. Those are just the blatant wall-bangers.
1. Magic Space God appears in final 5 minutes. There's no previous discussion of magic space god, and the thing he appears from was given a quite concrete purpose in ME1.
2. Choices are nonsensical at best: Magic space god can kill all the reapers, or control all the reapers, or magically turn the DNA of every biological creature in the galaxy into cyborg DNA, but it can't blow up the reapers without taking EDI and the Geth with them. It's not just an arbitrary god from the machine, it's an incompetent god from out of nowhere.
3. It's stated purpose for creating the reapers in nonsensical. Artificially created life will always rebel against it's creators....so we'll just destroy the creators ourselves. We need a new solution! How was that a solution to anything to begin with?
4. Joker decides, for no apparent reason whatsoever, to fly the through mass relay when it's being used as a cannon. What? Why? How? What purpose could that have possibly served?
5. In my playthrough at least, EDI and Ashley were both on Earth during this big battle. But apparently they managed to teleport onto the Normandy right before Joker makes his inexplicable decision to go through a Mass Relay right then.
And that's skipping the bigger ones about wrapping up a series effectively, or making anything you do matter in the end. Those are just the blatant wall-bangers.
Thanks for the reply, do we really need to use spoiler tags? Im taking the stance that spoiler management is down to the individual wishing to avoid them and not everyone else. Theres another spoiler free thread about ME3.
Anyways that aside...
1. Well that was the reapers apparent leader, its a shame that there wasent more detail on "the catalyst". Its mentioned by the prothean VI on the asari homeworld that there may be something controlling the reapers due to their "pattern" of extinction which turns out to be the catalyst on the citadel.
2. Im sure the catalyst cant do any of those things alone, it was the crucible that had been passed down through the chain of extinction for millions of years that allowed it do those things.
3. Well I wouldn't say its nonsensical its just not fully explained. The catalyst implies the reapers killed off their creators so whatever they were originally created for is moot, but that part that isn't explained is for some reason the reapers decided to preserve organic life. Why bother? Why do they need to preserve organic life?
I see how it preserves life though as like organic life synthetic life could come in more aggressive forms which would entirely extinguish all organic life and the reapers plan prevents this from ever happening in that particular galaxy.
4. Yeah I dunno what was going on there. Thought the normandy was supposed to be in orbit helping the battle, he mightve been running from the reapers because when sat with anderson looking out into space from the citadel the battle in space looked like it had been completely lost there was just rubble floating around.
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