So what do Christians think of Muslims and Hindus?

[BoomerD]

You KNOW we have issues with ANY group that don't eat pork or beef...that's jest...un-nacherl!
Why didja know, them Hindus worship cows instead of eat um? Yeppers, they'll STARVE afore they'd eat a cow! tain't right I tell ya!
I hain't quite sure bout them Mooslims...I heer they don't eat pork...nor touch pigskin...FOOTBALL'S made outta PIGSKIN! THAT's un-murikan!
<shifty-eyes> sumthin rong with peeple like at...<looks around fer one-o them-thar terrist-terbins>

drags out lawnchair and flame-retardant suit.

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: zanejohnson

Originally posted by: OdiN
They worship a false god.

And their religion is very violent. I have even seen videos where people who have proclaimed that they want peace and that the Muslim faith is a peaceful one, preach hate and violence against others.

There is even the belief that even the "peaceful" and law-abiding Muslims are only being that way in order to be accepted and gain access to other countries in order to attack them from the inside.

I don't know about Hindus being this way - or why you're comparing the two.

wow, that's a really close minded view.

How so?

Wow. I hate finding myself agreeing with anything zanejohnson says.

Based on this post, I'd say that your faith is so solid as to believe what you've been taught over anything anyone else has been taught - thus, your mind is closed to anyone else's viewpoint containing any truth.

Also based on the direction this post is headed, it will likely end up in P&N.

That's not that closed minded of a view, considering that history has demonstrated it's view.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Jeff7
What about people raised in societies which have never heard of the Christian deity? What about people who lived before Jesus was born? Are they all going to Hell, too?

You will never get an answer to that question which will satisfy you. At least I haven't.

Hi.

It is not difficult to imagine that God's judgement is perfect, and His mercy is great. Do you think a perfect and merciful God would damn the ignorant to hell? Would damn helpless children to hell?

Open your New Testament and take a look at Christ on the cross. Jesus forgave/saved one of the criminals for the mere act of that man acknowledging Jesus' innocence. :sun:

edit: spelling

 

[uli2000]

I belive every religion has truth to it, but the fullness of truth is fufilled in Jesus Christ. I would hope they would seek the fullness of the Gospel. I also believe everyone will have the chance to accept or reject Christ, either in this life, or the next. And I disagree that Muslims or Hindus are violent and Christians arnt. I cant speak about Hindu, as I truly understand very little about them, but I studied Islam extensively, reading the Koran many times, and I dont believe it to be a religion that embraces violence. I could see how some people would interpret some of the passages that way, but, unfortunaly, its the gift of free though and interpritation God has blessed us with that has gotten us all these various religions and sects anyways. Man's interpritations are flawed, and allways will be.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Descartes
That's how I've always understood it, but it's all so vague. What about the children post-Christ that aren't saved? Well, St. Augustine had this lovely idea of a "limbo" for such people. So many exceptions to the inerrant word of God that I can't keep up.

As you implied, it's free will. A lot of people believe in very different aspects of free will (or not at all), but it's the little idea that "solves" all of these questions.

It was explained to me once in a similar fashion to what you're attributing to St Augustine. People who have never encountered the "word of God" will hang out in pergatory (catholic) or limbo or some such business until the second coming, at which point they'll be.. saved I think.

As for children, they have an 'age of accountability' after which they go straight to hell if they haven't accepted Christ as lord and savior. The actual age of this is of course only known to God.

I once received what I thought was a brilliant answer to the free will vs. omniscience paradox. The answer was "well, it feels like free will to you, doesn't it?" I was kind of stunned and haven't really come up with a rebuttal on that particular point.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Jeff7
What about people raised in societies which have never heard of the Christian deity? What about people who lived before Jesus was born? Are they all going to Hell, too?

You will never get an answer to that question which will satisfy you. At least I haven't.

Hi.

It is not difficult to imagine that God's judgement is perfect, and His mercy is great. Do you think a perfect and merciful God would damn the ignorant to hell? Would damn helpless children to hell?

Open your New Testament and take a look at Christ on the cross. Jesus forgave/saved one of the criminals for the mere act of that man acknowledging Jesus' innocence. :sun:

edit: spelling

here's a question though.. what does it matter, in the end, whether you are christian or not so long as you are a decent human being? for the sake of argument, let us assume that christianity is indeed "true"

with literally billions of christians on the planet, it's a bit hard *not* to heard about it, similarly with islam and hinduism.

why should someone who knows of christianity (or was raised but left the church/faith), but still leads a good and moral life, be any worse off than before?

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Jeff7
What about people raised in societies which have never heard of the Christian deity? What about people who lived before Jesus was born? Are they all going to Hell, too?

You will never get an answer to that question which will satisfy you. At least I haven't.

Hi.

It is not difficult to imagine that God's judgement is perfect, and His mercy is great. Do you think a perfect and merciful God would damn the ignorant to hell? Would damn helpless children to hell?

Open your New Testament and take a look at Christ on the cross. Jesus forgave/saved one of the criminals for the mere act of that man acknowledging Jesus' innocence. :sun:

edit: spelling

It's certainly not too difficult for to imagine. Don't get me wrong, I'm religious and I believe in God, just not Christ. Do I believe God would damn the helpless to hell? Certainly not! But Jesus said "No One Comes to the Father but by Me". Therein lies the difficulty.I don't think you were trying to answer the question (were you?) rather saying that it has to work out somehow.

 

[kinev]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Jeff7
What about people raised in societies which have never heard of the Christian deity? What about people who lived before Jesus was born? Are they all going to Hell, too?

You will never get an answer to that question which will satisfy you. At least I haven't.

Hi.

It is not difficult to imagine that God's judgement is perfect, and His mercy is great. Do you think a perfect and merciful God would damn the ignorant to hell? Would damn helpless children to hell?

Open your New Testament and take a look at Christ on the cross. Jesus forgave/saved one of the criminals for the mere act of that man acknowledging Jesus' innocence. :sun:

edit: spelling

here's a question though.. what does it matter, in the end, whether you are christian or not so long as you are a decent human being? for the sake of argument, let us assume that christianity is indeed "true"

with literally billions of christians on the planet, it's a bit hard *not* to heard about it, similarly with islam and hinduism.

why should someone who knows of christianity (or was raised but left the church/faith), but still leads a good and moral life, be any worse off than before?

It boils down to the fact that God is perfect. Therefore, his standard for us is perfection. If you sin once, you are no longer perfect and therefore, cannot be in God's presence. Even if you lead a mostly good and moral life, you still have fallen short of the mark (sinned). We all have. God is all loving, but he is also a just god. If we fail to live up to the standard of perfection, then we're pretty much going to Hell (eternally separated from Him).

Sounds kinda bleak, but that's where Grace comes in. Jesus came to Earth to suffer and die on a cross to take all of my and your sins away. All we have to do is accept what Jesus did on the cross to save us and all of our sins are erased! That way, we are considered sanctified before God. All of the leading a good and moral life will not save a person (Ephesians 2:8-9). Getting into Heaven is a one-way street through Jesus Christ. There's no "good enough" to get into Heaven.

 

[TehMac]

lol at all the people who think they know what they're talking about with the whole analyzing of Christians

 

[Madwand1]

Some more Aurobindo:

"The ascent of man into heaven is not the key, but rather his ascent here into the spirit and the descent also of the Spirit into his normal humanity and the transformation of this earthly nature. For that and not some post mortem salvation is the real new birth for which humanity waits as the crowning movement of its long obscure and painful course."

http://intyoga.online.fr/hc_24.htm

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
...
Rule #1 of religion: Don't ask questions that the fairy tales don't account for. If you do you're an infidel or a heretic.

Buddhism actually encourages its followers to question things, even Buddhism itself.
It strikes me as the least weird of the mainstream religions, though some call it a philosophy, since it lacks any deity.

Originally posted by: Descartes
As you implied, it's free will. A lot of people believe in very different aspects of free will (or not at all), but it's the little idea that "solves" all of these questions.

But of course, if it was all planned out from the start in the divine plan, it's not really free will, is it. To us it is, because of our limited scope, but from the moment of creation, God knew the outcome of every decision that every human would ever make.

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Hi.

It is not difficult to imagine that God's judgement is perfect, and His mercy is great. Do you think a perfect and merciful God would damn the ignorant to hell? Would damn helpless children to hell?

Open your New Testament and take a look at Christ on the cross. Jesus forgave/saved one of the criminals for the mere act of that man acknowledging Jesus' innocence. :sun:

edit: spelling

Define "perfect." Everyone has a different idea of what "perfect" really is. If God doesn't damn the ignorant to Hell, then why the constant push to send missionaries to other places to convert the people, to keep them out of Hell? Maybe this "perfect" judgment of God's will not condemn those "ignorant," far-away people anyway.

Jesus dying on the cross - God could have expunged our sins away with a snap of his fingers. Instead, he creates a son for the sole purpose of dying on a cross.
Oh, and the divine plan thing: God's all knowing, so he knew from the instant of creation that humanity would sin, and that he'd have to create a son to send down to die a horrible death on a cross. So, rather than correcting this bug in humanity's programming, such that would cause them to commit the original sin in the first place, he just lets it go anyway. A very "Electronic Arts"ian approach - release now, patch later.

Originally posted by: kinev
It boils down to the fact that God is perfect. Therefore, his standard for us is perfection. If you sin once, you are no longer perfect and therefore, cannot be in God's presence. Even if you lead a mostly good and moral life, you still have fallen short of the mark (sinned). We all have. God is all loving, but he is also a just god. If we fail to live up to the standard of perfection, then we're pretty much going to Hell (eternally separated from Him).

Sounds kinda bleak, but that's where Grace comes in. Jesus came to Earth to suffer and die on a cross to take all of my and your sins away. All we have to do is accept what Jesus did on the cross to save us and all of our sins are erased! That way, we are considered sanctified before God. All of the leading a good and moral life will not save a person (Ephesians 2:8-9). Getting into Heaven is a one-way street through Jesus Christ. There's no "good enough" to get into Heaven.

See above about the issue of perfection. And if it's "above" our understanding, then how are we to know that it's really perfect? How are we to know that "God" isn't some alien emo 14 year old kid playing a game of SimUniverse 2.0 on his iHyperquantumultra PC.
It kind of makes sense that way. Create a perfect garden, Eden - but put a big mousetrap in the middle of it, with tasty bait on it, and say "Do not touch." Oh, and let Satan get into this garden. (Yes, God had to voluntarily allow Satan to enter the garden, since God is all-powerful and all-knowing.) He set up for failure, from the start, his wonderful new creation. Then, when they take the bait, he banishes them, and inflicts punishment (toil in the dirt, and pain from childbearing, etc etc) upon all humans to follow. That kind of behavior from a deity would seriously worry me, just ever so slightly.

 

[hehatedme]

A lot of religion stems from a persons lack of accepting (or believing, depending on perspective) that their existence is random. So many people don't realize their beliefs are a circumstance of chance (ie. geographical location, the type of people a person grew up around, etc.). So if one never comes to that conclusion, they might believe in a religion to a degree.

I been to places in India where temples have cross and statues of shiva, where hindus and christians worship together. There are also places where muslims and hindus live next door to each other, do business with each other, and are generally friends. There are also places where hindu's and muslims won't walk on the same side of the street, burn each others homes, and kill each other randomly. The same happens between many religions and cultures across the globe on both sides of the spectrum.

This is why I think it actually has little to do with religion, and more to do with human nature. If the concept of religion was never materialized, I am sure nature would have created something that humans would form groups about. Within these groups there would be the same range of people that I think are within religions and cultures, and the same scenarios would probably arise.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's certainly not too difficult for to imagine. Don't get me wrong, I'm religious and I believe in God, just not Christ. Do I believe God would damn the helpless to hell? Certainly not! But Jesus said "No One Comes to the Father but by Me". Therein lies the difficulty.I don't think you were trying to answer the question (were you?) rather saying that it has to work out somehow.

John 1
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

"No One Comes to the Father but by Me" because Jesus is one "person" or "aspect" of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). Jesus is our mediator, wiping clean our sins, so that God views us as sinless. If Jesus chooses to wipe clean the sins of a criminal on the cross who did not even know He was God, it is within His perfect judgement.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's certainly not too difficult for to imagine. Don't get me wrong, I'm religious and I believe in God, just not Christ. Do I believe God would damn the helpless to hell? Certainly not! But Jesus said "No One Comes to the Father but by Me". Therein lies the difficulty.I don't think you were trying to answer the question (were you?) rather saying that it has to work out somehow.

John 1
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

"No One Comes to the Father but by Me" because Jesus is one "person" or "aspect" of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). Jesus is our mediator, wiping clean our sins, so that God views us as sinless. If Jesus chooses to wipe clean the sins of a criminal on the cross who did not even know He was God, it is within His perfect judgement.

Yeah, but you can use that to answer practically any question. That doesn't really answer the question.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
But of course, if it was all planned out from the start in the divine plan, it's not really free will, is it. To us it is, because of our limited scope, but from the moment of creation, God knew the outcome of every decision that every human would ever make.

Define "perfect." Everyone has a different idea of what "perfect" really is. If God doesn't damn the ignorant to Hell, then why the constant push to send missionaries to other places to convert the people, to keep them out of Hell? Maybe this "perfect" judgment of God's will not condemn those "ignorant," far-away people anyway.

Jesus dying on the cross - God could have expunged our sins away with a snap of his fingers. Instead, he creates a son for the sole purpose of dying on a cross.
Oh, and the divine plan thing: God's all knowing, so he knew from the instant of creation that humanity would sin, and that he'd have to create a son to send down to die a horrible death on a cross. So, rather than correcting this bug in humanity's programming, such that would cause them to commit the original sin in the first place, he just lets it go anyway. A very "Electronic Arts"ian approach - release now, patch later.

See above about the issue of perfection. And if it's "above" our understanding, then how are we to know that it's really perfect? How are we to know that "God" isn't some alien emo 14 year old kid playing a game of SimUniverse 2.0 on his iHyperquantumultra PC.
It kind of makes sense that way. Create a perfect garden, Eden - but put a big mousetrap in the middle of it, with tasty bait on it, and say "Do not touch." Oh, and let Satan get into this garden. (Yes, God had to voluntarily allow Satan to enter the garden, since God is all-powerful and all-knowing.) He set up for failure, from the start, his wonderful new creation. Then, when they take the bait, he banishes them, and inflicts punishment (toil in the dirt, and pain from childbearing, etc etc) upon all humans to follow. That kind of behavior from a deity would seriously worry me, just ever so slightly.

There was a great line in the George Clooney movie Solaris.
"Solaris doesn't offer you any answers, but it does offer you a choice."

You can ask "why" up to a point, and there is no harm in that, but if you go so far back you're going to end up asking why God exists/who made God/where did the universe start/is time infinite/etc., all questions that require you to be God to answer.

We know that God values freewill. He gave freewill to Lucifer, and in return Lucifer rebelled and somehow convinced 1/3 of the angels in Heaven to rebel with him, causing their exile from Heaven. God gave Adam and Eve freewill, and in return man rebelled against God by eating of the forbidden fruit, causing the fall. God values freewill so much that he freed us from the Law, so that now in Christ we can freely choose to make mistakes but also freely choose to return to obedience and not have to worry about those mistakes hanging over our head our whole lives.

My interpretation is this, that God would rather have a creation that freely chooses to love and follow Him, rather than a bunch of robots.

A wise minister put this into a short but poignant question:
"Parents, would you rather have children who follow your every rule, or children who make mistakes but ultimately trust your judgement because they know you love them?"

 

[Madwand1]

Aurobindo again:

"You say that you ask only for the Truth and yet you speak like a narrow and ignorant fanatic who refuses to believe in anything but the religion in which he was born. All fanaticism is false, because it is a contradiction of the very nature of God and of Truth. Truth cannot be shut up in a single book, Bible or Veda or Koran, or in a single religion. The Divine Being is eternal and universal and infinite and cannot be the sole property of the Mussulmans or of the Semitic religions only, ? those that happened to be in a line from the Bible and to have Jewish or Arabian prophets for their founders. Hindus and Confucians and Taoists and all others have as much right to enter into relation with God and find the Truth in their own way. All religions have some truth in them, but none has the whole truth; all are created in time and finally decline and perish. Mahomed himself never pretended that the Koran was the last message of God and there would be no other. God and Truth outlast these religions and manifest themselves anew in whatever way or form the Divine Wisdom chooses. You cannot shut up God in the limitations of your own narrow brain or dictate to the Divine Power and Consciousness how or where or through whom it shall manifest; you cannot put up your puny barriers against the divine Omnipotence. These again are simple truths which are now being recognised all over the world; only the childish in mind or those who vegetate in some formula of the past deny them."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sri_Aurobindo

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: hellokeith
John 1
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

"No One Comes to the Father but by Me" because Jesus is one "person" or "aspect" of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). Jesus is our mediator, wiping clean our sins, so that God views us as sinless. If Jesus chooses to wipe clean the sins of a criminal on the cross who did not even know He was God, it is within His perfect judgement.

Yeah, but you can use that to answer practically any question. That doesn't really answer the question.

The answer is, God's judgement regarding those people will be perfect. In human terms, it will be more than fair. Do I know what exactly will happen? No, I can't see the future, but I don't need to because I trust in God.

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

What SHOULD a true Christian think of Muslims and Hindu? With Christ-like compassion, that's what :heart:. That's how you can tell a real Christian apart from imposters, "wolves in sheep's clothing", and the "immature". :brokenheart:

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: hellokeith
John 1
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

"No One Comes to the Father but by Me" because Jesus is one "person" or "aspect" of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). Jesus is our mediator, wiping clean our sins, so that God views us as sinless. If Jesus chooses to wipe clean the sins of a criminal on the cross who did not even know He was God, it is within His perfect judgement.

Yeah, but you can use that to answer practically any question. That doesn't really answer the question.

The answer is, God's judgement regarding those people will be perfect. In human terms, it will be more than fair. Do I know what exactly will happen? No, I can't see the future, but I don't need to because I trust in God.

Again, you can use that line to answer practically anything. In reality it answers nothing. The judgment will be perfect because you believe it be so. I'm sure you can see how that kind of answer only works for those who share your beliefs.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: hellokeith
The answer is, God's judgement regarding those people will be perfect. In human terms, it will be more than fair. Do I know what exactly will happen? No, I can't see the future, but I don't need to because I trust in God.

Again, you can use that line to answer practically anything. In reality it answers nothing. The judgment will be perfect because you believe it be so. I'm sure you can see how that kind of answer only works for those who share your beliefs.

The Biblical Scriptures are very clear about God's mercy, grace, and love for us. This is demonstrated time and time again in both the Old Testament and especially the New Testament. So the basis of God's judgement being perfect is well founded in scripture.

Listen to Jesus' admonishment of the religious/church leaders at their legalistic (unGodly) wielding of power over parishoners/commonfolk:

Matthew 12:7

7If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,'you would not have condemned the innocent.

ThePresence, it is true that the Holy Scriptures do not provide a line-by-line answer to every question ever asked, but I would hope that your search for individual questions does not become an obstacle to the greatest truth found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: hellokeith
The answer is, God's judgement regarding those people will be perfect. In human terms, it will be more than fair. Do I know what exactly will happen? No, I can't see the future, but I don't need to because I trust in God.

Again, you can use that line to answer practically anything. In reality it answers nothing. The judgment will be perfect because you believe it be so. I'm sure you can see how that kind of answer only works for those who share your beliefs.

The Biblical Scriptures are very clear about God's mercy, grace, and love for us. This is demonstrated time and time again in both the Old Testament and especially the New Testament. So the basis of God's judgement being perfect is well founded in scripture.

Listen to Jesus' admonishment of the religious/church leaders at their legalistic (unGodly) wielding of power over parishoners/commonfolk:

Matthew 12:7

7If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,'you would not have condemned the innocent.

ThePresence, it is true that the Holy Scriptures do not provide a line-by-line answer to every question ever asked, but I would hope that your search for individual questions does not become an obstacle to the greatest truth found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

My reasons for not accepting Christianity is alot more than just a question or two. But since accepting Jesus as a savior is such a basic tenant in Christianity this question can't really be overlooked. It goes to the heart of the belief.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: hellokeith
The answer is, God's judgement regarding those people will be perfect. In human terms, it will be more than fair. Do I know what exactly will happen? No, I can't see the future, but I don't need to because I trust in God.

Again, you can use that line to answer practically anything. In reality it answers nothing. The judgment will be perfect because you believe it be so. I'm sure you can see how that kind of answer only works for those who share your beliefs.

The Biblical Scriptures are very clear about God's mercy, grace, and love for us. This is demonstrated time and time again in both the Old Testament and especially the New Testament. So the basis of God's judgement being perfect is well founded in scripture.

Are you serious? Have you actually read the Old Testament?!

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Are you serious? Have you actually read the Old Testament?!

Yes and Yes.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
A wise minister put this into a short but poignant question:
"Parents, would you rather have children who follow your every rule, or children who make mistakes but ultimately trust your judgement because they know you love them?"

HA!
Yes, I'd rather my children who followed my every rule!

I also don't see why those two should be mutually exclusive.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: hellokeith
A wise minister put this into a short but poignant question:
"Parents, would you rather have children who follow your every rule, or children who make mistakes but ultimately trust your judgement because they know you love them?"

HA!
Yes, I'd rather my children who followed my every rule!

I also don't see why those two should be mutually exclusive.

I believe what he was trying to say was whether you would want children who obey out of fear or children who do so out of respect and love. Although the way the sentence was written, I can't tell if that's the case.